Tigers of Old said:
My biggest issue is this..
In 35 games of snr foot, Connor has never won more than 17 possessions.
Except he has, albeit only 3 times. Bear in mind his first 5 games were as the sub, as a 68kg 18-year-old (he's the same height as Dusty, who weighs - what - 90?). Nonetheless, he does need to get more of the ball. But, as we've seen over the past season in the VFL (I think it's now 12 of his last 13 games with 20+), he's capable of doing it.
On continuity, he played the first 9 games of 2016 as a very skinny 19-year-old. His next greatest stretch was 7 as a very skinny 20-year-old in 2017 (split by the bye), which ended when many thought he was unlucky to be dropped after the St Kilda debacle, a week after what many thought was a breakout game v Port in Adelaide. We didn't see him again until halfway through last year, after a pre-season ruined by injury.
He's 22, not everyone develops at the same rate. To put arbitrary deadlines on when a player has to 'make it' by is foolish. At Connor's age Nathan Broad was playing for Claremont. Gary Ablett Sr was playing for Myrtleford. Tony Modra was playing for West Adelaide, Allen Jakovich for Woodville, Kane Lambert for Williamstown, Tim Kelly for South Freo. At Connor's age Bachar Houli couldn't get a game for Essendon, nor Grigg for Carlton.
He's still only 80kg, skinny for a 187cm player, but 12kg heavier than he started. He might be a slow burn, but I think a 25-year-old, 85kg Connor is a player we will want in our team.
I'm willing to bet anyone that Connor plays 100+ AFL games.
MD Jazz said:
Disagree half-back is his go, unless it's purely the Houli role. And in reality we have Houli & Short both in front of him offensively who provide as little physically as Menadue does. He has zero presence, a couple of times he was too easily out-positioned in marking contests. Albeit he was against a larger opponent, but there was no aggression to compete. Compare him to the intensity of Rioli, who is smaller.
If you are going to be a running player surely you have to get a bit of it and do some important stuff? His whole "memorable" body of work comes down to one kick against Port Adelaide. It's not enough.
The Houli role is what I'm talking about. You need two or three of them. Currently we have Houli, Edwards and Stack in front of him as small running defenders. Everyone got shuffled up a spot on the weekend, so we played four of them and were caught - literally - short. With Astbury back, neither Menadue nor Short get a game unless Edwards or Stack moves to the midfield.
Strongly disagree Short is in front of him offensively. Menadue is third in the league this year for disposal efficiency %. You say he's had one memorable kick - I would argue that's because he uses the ball quickly and efficiently. Can you recall a major disposal blunder? Short had 81 inside 50s in 24 games last year, for 6 goal assists. That's one goal for every 13.5 Jayden Short inside 50s, not exactly the numbers of the elite ball user he's supposed to be (but isn't). Skinny 19-year-old Connor Menadue in 2016 had 22 inside 50s from 14 games, for 6 goal assists. That's a goal for every 3.7 skinny 19-year-old Connor Menadue inside 50s.
Short beats him for goals scored personally, but then Menadue had 6 intercepts on the weekend, equal with Stack, behind only Vlastuin, and I would say comfortably more than Short has ever had. Intercepts turn defence into attack, which is what you want from your backmen.
Jazzy, at least you provided some specific criticism. Aerial presence. Some blokes are naturally confident in the air, others aren't. McIntosh in his 7th year in the system is only just now coming to grips with it. Houli took time. Rance and Grimes couldn't catch for years.
SCOOP said:
Bingo. A player in year 5 is having zero impact on games, how long do you wait? Talk of him being able to play the Short role has proved folly.
We are putting time into a guy who has been in holding pattern since 2017. No improvement. We've just seen what Stack and Ross can do when unleashed.
Why wouldn't we want to go again?
A. He's never played the Short role. How many times did you see him run around the back of a teammate who had marked or received a free for an unnecessary cheapie handball receive? Was it 8, like Short, or none? I'm going with none.
B. With 6-6-6 and no Rance, the Short role is redundant. We simply can't afford (if we ever could) to carry a designated-kicking receiver who can't defend, can't win a contest, won't put his body on the line and panic-kick turns the ball over under even inferred pressure. (Connor has the third-best DE % in the league.)
3. Sydney Stack has made Jayden Short redundant.
4. What does zero impact on games mean? When Connor gets the ball a Richmond player in a better position nearly always gets it next. Isn't that what you want?
5. Holding pattern and no improvement since 2017? Do you go to VFL games to make these calls, SCOOP? His 2018 was derailed by injury and yet his second half of the year showed consistent improvement, and improved consistency. Only one game under 20 disposals, and that was a final in which he was still one of our better players.
He's played two games this year, three weeks apart, and was decent in both of them. Let's see what we get with a bit of confidence and continuity.
