and the time given before they get told to play on, I noticed it several times om Saturday
I will watch the replay tonight & time the instances for TBRs sake
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Umpire farce - Getting worse by the minute!
- Thread starter iLoVeNeWmAn
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I will watch the replay tonight & time the instances for TBRs sake
drives me mental, obviously I hate the rule, but now its there, fair adjudication relies on the ump being tight on putting players on their line and calling play on the instant they move off it. They don't. *smile* piled on *smile*
There is a fair chance we have group confirmation bias.
18th in FKF 2021/22 is certainly grating - along with a huge amount of 50s where you see the identical (albeit ridiculous) transgressions not penalized. We just don't play for high free kicks like the rest of the comp do is my main assessment. I think there was an Essendon player who headbutted Aarts or Ross and got a free kick which was just insane. Plus a huge number of players that seem to throw their head back in almost every contest and you are just waiting for the umpire to blow the whistle.
You definitely remember when goals are taken away or given (bolton + 50 for some weird free against jack that was never replayed, grimes dangerous (right) tackle, martin no HTB vs draper then point when crowd saw it miss goal post, tarrant beautiful goal from 55 and some weird shepherding or holding free against lynch (that was never replayed) and then don't see these same infringements against other teams. (Houlhi not hearing a touched mark vs PA then HTB is one of my all time 'favorite' - only gets paid against richmond free kicks). We will all be less likely to notice and have the same emotional sting attached to these type of for/against decisions where other teams are receiving them though which is why it is much harder to be able to make a great assessment. Plus most of us are saying we only watch the Tigers because the footy sucks with all the *smile* rules - so we are getting even less exposure to what else is happening (and highlights will never show these incidents of course)
18th in FKF 2021/22 is certainly grating - along with a huge amount of 50s where you see the identical (albeit ridiculous) transgressions not penalized. We just don't play for high free kicks like the rest of the comp do is my main assessment. I think there was an Essendon player who headbutted Aarts or Ross and got a free kick which was just insane. Plus a huge number of players that seem to throw their head back in almost every contest and you are just waiting for the umpire to blow the whistle.
You definitely remember when goals are taken away or given (bolton + 50 for some weird free against jack that was never replayed, grimes dangerous (right) tackle, martin no HTB vs draper then point when crowd saw it miss goal post, tarrant beautiful goal from 55 and some weird shepherding or holding free against lynch (that was never replayed) and then don't see these same infringements against other teams. (Houlhi not hearing a touched mark vs PA then HTB is one of my all time 'favorite' - only gets paid against richmond free kicks). We will all be less likely to notice and have the same emotional sting attached to these type of for/against decisions where other teams are receiving them though which is why it is much harder to be able to make a great assessment. Plus most of us are saying we only watch the Tigers because the footy sucks with all the *smile* rules - so we are getting even less exposure to what else is happening (and highlights will never show these incidents of course)
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Hey Richo, let me put another perspective into your thinking and let's agree that we deserved each of of 28 penalties.
What about how many have been "incorrectly" missed for other teams?
What is for certain is that we have copped more than our fair share. Others (every other team actually) don't get the instant feedback that we do.
You said you watched our game, plenty of examples in that one Richo. Plenty of posters on here have pointed out example after example.
You must just be a contrarian for contrarians sake hey?
Interesting to understand if GWS believes it had a change of game plan that influenced the 2019 anomaly. Sticks out like the proverbials.
Actually us in 2019 is odd too.
That is a fair call RE.
Only issue I have is that it is not baseless propaganda.
When an example can be highlighted as the game happens, sometimes within seconds, and we are penalised one could think that would be confirmation bias.
When that example is followed in succession with more of the same, it becomes less likely to be confirmation bias.
When it happens game after game, less likely again.
When it happens over the course of half a decade it becomes even less likely.
There is no doubt the Richo is correct in parts of his theory, its an emotional attachment us tigers have, but we are not all just gooses.
Every team cops bad decisions, it's just highly unlikely to happen to them when they play us.
It’s not just us anymore. Increasingly the commentators are finding that they have no idea why free kicks are being paid, and more of them are starting to speak out about it. The standard began to slip when Hocking was appointed and it has continued to fall under the stewardship of Scott and Richardson. What qualities do these two have to recommend them to the post? Surely someone who has some experience of umpiring would be better. They know the rules, they presumably have some relationship with the umpires and they understand the experience of umpiring a game. It also appears that these rules are introduced with no consultation with the umpires themselves, and that’s got to be a recipe for disaster.
imagine the way Brad Scott (and his brother) treated umpires.. i would imagine with a bit of 'dissent' ...
I guess my perspective is different. If we've given away 28 50m penalties, I'd be stopping doing the stuff that is causing 50 metre penalties, not worrying about what things are occurring with other teams which are completely outside of our control.
There were plenty of examples of Essendon kicking the ball away after the whistle and not getting penalised in our game?
I don't think anyone is a goose, HR, (Well maybe one or two
) I just think passion for a club leaves lots of people unable to see things with balance, at every club, not just ours.The evidence of that is you very, very, very rarely see any mention of the ones that go our way on here, if ever. It also creates the 'always' and 'never' statements which are completely bogus, which anyone thinking logically is bound to acknowledge.
Unfortunately the misnomer that free kick differentials say something about umpiring standards has fed people's frustrations to the point where they are on a hair trigger with the umpires. Then that manifests in ones like the Martin/Draper tackle before the goal review which wasn't holding the ball at all (I know people will argue that but if you read the rule it just isn't, for the same reasons as the worst decision of all time with Oliver a few pages back. It just isn't a free kick).
So pre set frustration feeds frustration and on and on it goes. Then the free kick counts comes up and the cycle gets more vicious until it is hard for people to see anything but a raw deal.
I understand it and I respect the passion, I certainly don't think it makes anyone a goose, just as I hope people recognise I prefer to try and view the adjudication through a neutral lens which gives me a very different perspective on it, but understand that the same passion means that is unlikely.
A serious question TBR, and I dont have the stats on hand to back it up, but why despite the disparity in frees in H&A games in 2017-2020 did frees in finals even up or were actually in our favour?I guess my perspective is different. If we've given away 28 50m penalties, I'd be stopping doing the stuff that is causing 50 metre penalties, not worrying about what things are occurring with other teams which are completely outside of our control.
There were plenty of examples of Essendon kicking the ball away after the whistle and not getting penalised in our game?
I don't think anyone is a goose, HR, (Well maybe one or two
The evidence of that is you very, very, very rarely see any mention of the ones that go our way on here, if ever. It also creates the 'always' and 'never' statements which are completely bogus, which anyone thinking logically is bound to acknowledge.
Unfortunately the misnomer that free kick differentials say something about umpiring standards has fed people's frustrations to the point where they are on a hair trigger with the umpires. Then that manifests in ones like the Martin/Draper tackle before the goal review which wasn't holding the ball at all (I know people will argue that but if you read the rule it just isn't, for the same reasons as the worst decision of all time with Oliver a few pages back. It just isn't a free kick).
So pre set frustration feeds frustration and on and on it goes. Then the free kick counts comes up and the cycle gets more vicious until it is hard for people to see anything but a raw deal.
I understand it and I respect the passion, I certainly don't think it makes anyone a goose, just as I hope people recognise I prefer to try and view the adjudication through a neutral lens which gives me a very different perspective on it, but understand that the same passion means that is unlikely.
We've only had 4 seasons in the last 17 where we've had a positive free kick differential. Haaargh haaargh haaaargh !!!
Your guess is as good as mine, WT, and I don't know the stats either.
Two theories I could float are that finals tend to be umpired differently (which is ridiculous) and perhaps we get by with some stuff that is often called up in H and A games. Another untested theory of mine is we give away a lot of 'casual' free kicks, sloppy high tackles and other careless type stuff and maybe we lift our standards when the stakes go up.
It may well have something to do with the teams we are against as well, would be interesting to see how the stats look home and away against finals vs the same teams and what the other stats that impact frees are like in terms of uncontested and contested situations.
We have several who give away what seem to me as cheap unnecessary frees. But I don't really track others teams so cannot make any assessment if others do it more or less than us.
Is there an umpire signal for decent? I know they use a 'stop sign' signal for abuse but I'm not sure if they use the same one for decent. There needs to be one so that players and fans can understand what the penalty was for.
My gut feel is that it was paid for the 'strike', in which case it can enter the rapidly expanding parthenon of worst frees ever.
Watching that game actually made me feel better about the umpiring though as I think the Hawks got shafted worse than us.
