Tyler Fishlock threads [Merged] | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Tyler Fishlock threads [Merged]

(thinks to self - why am I about to wade into this??? I don't know, but I feel I must)

I'm with you hopper.

The strong reaction to these reports are typical of the frenzy the tabloid media like to whip up around us for their own financial gains and in same cases, personal power (like that idiot shock jock in Sydney I'm not going to name and give publicity to). The HS just don't care about facts - I know this from experience. when a story doesn't even come close to what you thought it was going to be, but is worded in a factless, misleading and sensational way it can be quite confronting. Today Tonight? Please! you can't even beleive what you see on this trash given how they edit what is finally aired to the public. As a quick aside, I really love parodies of this type of media: the show "Rock Bottom" on The Simpsons (and subsequent talk shows) is just great at showing how quickly people get on the anger bandwagon when they don't even know what happened "your tears say more than real evidence ever could!". Then of course Frontline was great - watch it if you're too young to remember it. Even though it's a comedy, it makes you think. Did any of you ever see John Safran expose how when ACA (when Ray Martin was host) savaged the Paxton kids and made them look like complete no hopers simply by taking them slightly out of context and cutting pertinent details? It's amazing how some minor tweaking to a story can completley change our perception of what really happens. Viva la Media Watch.

To continue my siding with Hopper, to aim such red hot anger at an 8 year old when we just don't know the facts (even when we DO know the facts) is very disturbing to me. VERY disturbing. I'm glad of all the posters in this thread that Hopper is the one in the right place. Thank God the rest of you aren't in a position to directly screw up the lives of a large number of kids. Like Hopper, I am NOT saying Tyler and his family haven't been traumatised. Nor am I saying the Principal did anything right or wrong - becuase I just don't trust what I see from these media outlets and I wish this type of 'journalism' was banned. Even if it was all true, do you really beleive this is the way an 8 year old should be handled? Really? That saddens me greatly. IT's not about being a bleeding heart either. This is a child we are talking about for goodness sake. A young mind in very early development stage, testing the waters of the world it is in not knowing much about anything. Do we give that develping mind a slap and chuck it the corner, or do we show it how to treat people with kindness? Do you know why this child bullied Tyler? Of course you don't. IT could be a very lonely child who got some attention by finding 'the right target'. IT could be a child with mild autism not yet dignosed. Yeah, maybe the kid is just a little brat, but shouldn't we DEMONSTRATING how to behave with respect to others?

I have seen a suspected so called 'bully' reduced to heart wrenching terrified tears becuase an adult who should have been the one using a thoughtful measured approached acted on instinct and took matters inappropriately into their own hands. This is a tragic mistake. And facts do back up clearly identifying anger, violence and retrobution as being detrimental and the wrong way to handle this issue. Violence breeds violence. Kids will learn this as their problem solving tool. The less it's used, the less it will be used.

Those of you who think bullying the bully will work are wrong.
 
Mac said:
.... I'm glad of all the posters in this thread that Hopper is the one in the right place. Thank God the rest of you aren't in a position to directly screw up the lives of a large number of kids..............
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There are a few generalisations on this thread. " Some" of you might be more a appropriate comment than "the rest" of you Mac. Not everyone here is directing anger towards the kid accused of being a bully.

rosy23 said:
Bullying is sad no matter what age the people involved. It's all too common and I am constantly amazed how some have a need to abuse others either physically or mentally. I hope the issue is resolved so that all the kids are happy, including the bully. The reason he's hitting out needs addressing as well as Tyler, and the other kids' welfare.
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hopper said:
FACT and a PROVEN FACT - kids who experience "retribution, aggression and punishment" as the primary response to poor behaviours (especially bullying) are at higher risk of poor school performance, poor career choices, dysfunctional relationships, criminal records, suicide, self harm, poverty and domestic violence. They don't learn a lesson - they learn anger, hate and to get better at not getting caught.

But hey, the SOLUTION to this problem is clearly to lynch this other 6yo boy, and his family ... because we're outraged? Yeah - that'll work.
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Another generalisation hopper. Might be more accurate to say "some" kids if you're highlighting the word FACT. There are always exceptions to the rules and without doubt different kids would react differently to different actions.

I find your comment about punishment particularly interesting, I guess it's not really clear how you define the term. There are many ways a child can learn from punishment for anti-social behaviour imo. Things like being excluded from a particular activity or having particular privileges removed, for example, until they display appropriate behaviour they're being punished but they're also learning the consequences of anti-social behaviour imo.

I think care needs to be taken to address issues regarding bullies and I think non-abusive punishment would be a successful tool with some kids, both in modifying present unacceptable behaviour and also preparing them for the big world outside.

You've claimed you don't have the bullying problem in your school but I don't really understand from your posts on the topic how you'd actually deal with a similar situation if it did eventuate.
 
Aplogies for generalising unfairly Rosie. You are correct, I should have used words that didn't direct comments to all. I hope some others can also see that they made some generalisations about the issue itself that may not have been accurate.
 
rosy23 said:
Another generalisation hopper.  Might be more accurate to say "some" kids if you're highlighting the word FACT.  There are always exceptions to the rules and without doubt different kids would react differently to different actions.

I find your comment about punishment particularly interesting, I guess it's not really clear how you define the term.  There are many ways a child can learn from punishment for anti-social behaviour imo. Things like being excluded from a particular activity or having particular privileges removed, for example, until they display appropriate behaviour they're being punished but they're also learning the consequences of anti-social behaviour imo. 

I think care needs to be taken to address issues regarding bullies and I think non-abusive punishment would be a successful tool with some kids, both in modifying present unacceptable behaviour and also preparing them for the big world outside. 

You've claimed you don't have the bullying problem in your school but I don't really understand from your posts on the topic how you'd actually deal with a  similar situation if it did eventuate.
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Not a generalisation, Rosy.  I was referring to kids collectively.  There's a difference.  I'll have a go at demonstrating what effect certain appraoches have on kids as a result of a massive piece of survey and observation based research done by Latrobe Uni a few years ago.  (Not sure how to do tables so bear with me ...).   The figures demonstrate either an increase (with a positive number and the higher the number the bigger the increase) or a decrease (same deal).
                                                         Distraction              Negativity to teacher          Action is justified
Punishment                                      0.22                        0.23                                    0.06
Discussion                                        -0.13                      -0.28                                  0.24
Recognition                                      - 0.15                      -0.29                                  0.23
Aggression                                        0.35                        0.50                                    -0.16
Involvement                                      0.00                        -0.10                                  0.19
Hinting                                              -0.02                      -0.09                                    0.19

Hope that makes some semblance of sense.  When talking about distraction, we can see that aggression does the best job - meaning it distracts them from thinking about what they've done, and converelsy recognition (of intrinsic worth) encourages them to keep thinking about it.  Negativity to teacher is also increased most by aggression (picture the student sitting in the corner muttering about "Mr.Smith", after being dragged there by the ear) and also punishment.  Note - relationship with teacher is the most important (research proven) factor in preventing poor classroom behaviours.  And then there's whether the student feels the action taken is justified.  Funnily enough - they get it (just!) when they are punished, but they can't make sense of it when aggression is used.  Best results (fair process) comes from discussion - no matter what the action taken is.

As for what I'd have done in Tyler's instance - I really don't want to cop out, but you need to know the circumstances.  I'm a huge fan of restorative practices and, typically, I use this approach when dealing with instances of poor behaviour including bullying.  Too big a deal to go right into here, but the nutshell version is holding that child accountable for the emotional damage they have caused by making them work until that damage is repaired.  Sometimes it's as simple as a sorry and a promise about the way they'll behave from now on.  Sometimes there's a while lot more mopping up for them to do.  I've had a kid spend a day in my office writing letters to a student he bullied, his parents for letting them down, me for wasting my time, his teacher for disappointing her, the victim's parents for keeping them up at night and the victim's brother for scaring him.  I haven't had him back in my office since.

And thanks for your support, Mac.
 
michael roach said:
that sickens me.
I remember getting in trouble with the police as a kid and trying to deny my involvement and they told me they had just asked my dad if i he thought i may be guilty of what they were accusing me of and he said yes! ;D
The police then said it was pretty rare for a parent to say that about their child,most parents would say "oh no my little johnny wouldn`t do a thing like that"
Ah me old dad,bad tempered old bastard but he taught me about being responsible for my actions.
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Mine was the same ;D he wouldnt lie for me in a million years and thats the way i would want it. I am responsible for my own behaviour and i had learnt it from an early age. Respect is not a common trait these days.
 
Mac said:
I hope some others can also see that they made some generalisations about the issue itself that may not have been accurate.
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Indeed Mac...there are some generalisations from both sides of the fence.
 
hopper said:
I've had a kid spend a day in my office writing letters to a student he bullied, his parents for letting them down, me for wasting my time, his teacher for disappointing her, the victim's parents for keeping them up at night and the victim's brother for scaring him. I haven't had him back in my office since.
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To me that was a penalty imposed for wrongdoing, so I'd consider it punishment.

Interesting as a principal discussing behaviour hopper that you deliberately, and needlessly, breached the site rules in your post. We've just had a recent thread reminding people about swearing and avoiding the swear filter on here. While the others are outside playing you must write "I will not swear on PRE" one hundred times. :blah
 
hopper said:
I'll try to keep it brief for you ws80 then! ;) Hey, we'll agree to disagree and leave it at that hey?

Anyway, I'll endeth the spelling lesson now. It's Friday after all!

My best wishes to all concerned - including my Principal colleague.
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Yeah, i guess we both want the same results, just different methods of getting them ;), like you said... it's friday so lets leave it to the partys that are involved and hope it all turns out well :).
 
rosy23 said:
To me that was a penalty imposed for wrongdoing, so I'd consider it punishment.

Interesting as a principal discussing behaviour hopper that you deliberately, and needlessly, breached the site rules in your post. We've just had a recent thread reminding people about swearing and avoiding the swear filter on here. While the others are outside playing you must write "I will not swear on PRE" one hundred times. :blah
Click to expand...
I didn't impose the penalty. He came up with the actions as he identified that was what needed to be done to fix things up. It had nothing to do with me. That's what I like about restorative practices.

I'm sure I've got a note from my Mum somewhere too about my sore arm and not being able to write lines, Rosy! ;)
 
Lookout Bullies, Here Comes Richo!

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/look-out-bullies-here-comes-richo/story-e6frf7kx-1225810745860
 
i saw tyler tap dancing on the news last night - he looked pretty cool!

tap dancing and richo, not bad, eh? ...... take that, nasty bullies!

merry christmas to tyler and his wonderful family ... and i hope santa brings you everything you hope for.
 
How cool that the three guys mentioned are former players. Not required by the club to keep in contact, just doing it because they wanted to and because they've formed a relationship with the little bloke. AFL players cop so much flak, sometimes rightly so, but here's a group of guys who are making a kid's life alot happier.
 
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