Trade Week - Richmond Only

[Willo]

I think he targeted this draft by trading forward into it from last year. We only 2 middling picks last year (McAuliffe and Fawcett) and were happy to trade back to get extra picks in this draft.

I agree. I don’t believe it was from years out because 1. A change of coach was possible 2. We didn’t have the trade capital with a few retirees. 3. Unknown that Adolfo was going to get “nudged” last year. With a few of those picks getting traded into this years. Only useful mainly for points picks. Bit it worked out ok

You misunderstand my point on Bolton. In terms of timing I didn't mean 2 years ago when he re-signed. We heard from Blair that he was always interested in wanting to go back, interesting then that the year that he requested to go back, the WA teams (both of them) had the currency to make the trade work. Whether you think that was Bolton and his management that made that call, or Blair had the discussion with Shai to sort of say, "look, we know you've wanted to head back to WA at some point, we feel this year is the best year where we can get a win-win for both you and for the club, are you interested".

Yes quite possible.

That part I think could conceivably have occurred and he would have had some inkling that both Baker and Graham would take a look elsewhere, as I said previously, I reckon the only 1 that probably took Blair and the club by surprise was Rioli which is why we played hardball on that trade, more so than the others.

Agreed

Not saying Graham or Baker were targets of Blairs, but contingencies would have been strewn up in that if he goes, we would want it to work for us in the draft that we'd like. Baker in particular, it would be interesting to know from the club whether it was them of Bakes that wanted his contract to expire 1 year before free agency. That must have been planned, otherwise why not take the extra year to free agency and then exercise his right to leave at that point?

I agree with just about all of that. There’s a fair bit of supposition, but regardless of how we got there, Blair dealt as well as he could.
As we found out later, under some very difficult and emotional stress.
Anyone worth his salt would have contingency plans drawn up. For drafts, trades, FAs, our own players, contracts, injuries, premature retirements, and many other variables we don’t even think about.

Sometimes rules are changed, which then makes your game plan obsolete. Which happened. Nothing could be done at the time, but we still failed to adjust our game plan.The playing personnel couldn’t be changed overnight but I think we were too slow to react to any changes.

I’ve stated we’ve had hits and misses like all clubs, but the last couple of years we’ve fallen well behind. That’s obvious.
At least with a healthy hand of draft picks, a TPP that’s in good order (well fairly low atm) means our important players can be re-signed and even front ended.

I’m stating the obvious but this draft especially and next year are crucial to our future. We’ve got to nail this draft. I’m not sure of the strength of next years but no doubt there will be good players there.
Fingers crossed.

 

[Tigerwa]

Just a point here and not laying blame at anyone.

In fact last comments on this. for me.

People mention Gibcus and at the time we were screaming out for a highly talented kid to be taken thru the draft. Imo the Gibcus pick was long over due.

Gibcus and Balta were pegged to play kpd for us for many years to come. A reasonable assumption id say.

But that was about all we did as far as long term goes. We got Tarrant obviously to play while Gibcus developed because the only other kpd's we had on the list was Ben Miller drafted in 2017 at pick 63 and he had been demoted to the rookie list.
The other was Nyuon drafted in 2019 at pick 54 and he was delisted and then put on the rookie list.
Both looked like busts Nyuon is gone and Miller took until this year to show enough even though i still have serious doubts about aspects of his game.

Hardly a heavy investment in quality. We took Tarrant because we invested so little in the area in previous years.

It was a similar scenario with key forwards. It was like we have Tom and Jack we don't need to plan for when they are not there so lets just tinker around the edges. Tinker we did 2022 we still only really had Tom and Jack and were to the point where we were throwing Balta forward at times.

If we are talking about succession planning then i would say we were poor at it.

Mids same sort of thing we didn't do a hell of a lot until we got to the stage where we were almost forced to take Taranto and Hopper.

Where was the three four plus year planning in all this.

Suddenly we get a set of circumstances where we can aquire a pile of early picks and im expected to believe its all long term planning.
Pardon me for being sceptical.

As i have said before while winning premierships it does not mean we weren't getting some things wrong. We quite obviously were but no one wants to admit it.
We get better by learning from our mistakes i hope the club remembers and learns from what we did not do well.

Any way im not trying to start this all up again just my final thoughts on this.
I will leave it to others to make comment.

 

[jokershoppe]

Exactly. No doubt there is a lot of communication from the List Manager, HOF, the Recruiting staff and coaches.
There is a fair amount of trust placed upon each department to do they job they’re employed to do.

The List Manager can’t just change the whole list because a new coach comes in with a different game plan. The (new) would be expected to have a game plan to suit the majority of the current list. It’s far easier to execute a plan that encompasses tha5 than change a list to suit the new game plan.
Having said that, if there was a specific need for a player type, the coach would highlight that need. Then the List manager, recruiters would see what was available as a FA, a trade or whether it was via the draft.

The List Manager is employed by the club. Not the coach. They need to be on the same wave length and work together. But a List Manager is not doing his job if he only operates at the behest of the coach. A coach is there for the here and now.

It takes a few years to put a winning team together.
As we’ve seen, since 2020, there has been a distinct failure to fill the gaping holes in our list.
Where is/was the next Kpp after JR and Lynch? Where is/are the replacements for Astbury? Miller? Gibcus, the first one drafted.
Instead of drafting for the future, we traded that away. Then had to get Naismith as ruck insurance. Tarrant as a Kpp, cheapies. Now Koschitzke. Short cuts.

So we trade out 3 of our best, 4 arguably of our best 22. All of a sudden we have the opportunity to rectify and fill some holes.

It was stated Blair planned this draft for years.That may be true seeing he whittled the list down in the meantime. But it’s a fool who thinks he knew Baker, Bolton, DRioli and Graham would take a nudge and head out the door. Or Soldo was nudged lsat year.

Some believe Blair is a genius. He may be very good at his job. No doubt there have been some big trade/recruiting hits depending on who you believe. If that’s the case was he responsible for the Yarran debacle or can that be laid at Dan Richardsons feet?
Depends who is spinning the narrative. And still it happens.

The best have wins and losses, the aim is to keep the losses to a minimum.
Let’s hope for our sake, come pick trade and draft night, everyone is on the same page as to what or who is needed.

Blair is on record as stating,I tell players that if they want out,it's not that easy u must pick a team with good picks, Blair 100% told this to Baker,Bolton ,rioli, at least 2 of the 3 were odds on to leave last 12 months.

 

[Carter]

I'm not saying the club haven't made mistakes, but Blair isn't solely responsible as some still are making out. If we are going to blame Blair, then through Balme, Gale, Lingstone, Hardwick etc into the same mix. The strategy of the club is devised by a leadership group made up of these people, they decide if the plan is the here and now, or regenerate or a bit of both. Suggesting that the list build where it is right now is all Blair Hartleys fault is a ridiculous, maybe I should say disgusting take.

It’s an ebb and flow isn’t it Posh.

Senescent list with heralded coach looking for one more flag? Coach gets some sway.

Fracturing list and plummeting ladder position? List manager must be able to do his job.

 

[Sintiger]

Blair is on record as stating,I tell players that if they want out,it's not that easy u must pick a team with good picks, Blair 100% told this to Baker,Bolton ,rioli, at least 2 of the 3 were odds on to leave last 12 months.

It has also been said by players and others at RFC that Blair fosters an open door and honest discussion. People forget sometimes that these players are human beings. Shai Bolton is now a young father with a 2nd baby on the way and all their family support structures in Perth.

We also know that he is very tight with Dan Rioli.

You would suspect that a dialogue started and it went from there

 

[Willo]

Just a point here and not laying blame at anyone.

In fact last comments on this. for me.

People mention Gibcus and at the time we were screaming out for a highly talented kid to be taken thru the draft. Imo the Gibcus pick was long over due.

Gibcus and Balta were pegged to play kpd for us for many years to come. A reasonable assumption id say.

But that was about all we did as far as long term goes. We got Tarrant obviously to play while Gibcus developed because the only other kpd's we had on the list was Ben Miller drafted in 2017 at pick 63 and he had been demoted to the rookie list.
The other was Nyuon drafted in 2019 at pick 54 and he was delisted and then put on the rookie list.
Both looked like busts Nyuon is gone and Miller took until this year to show enough even though i still have serious doubts about aspects of his game.

Hardly a heavy investment in quality. We took Tarrant because we invested so little in the area in previous years.

It was a similar scenario with key forwards. It was like we have Tom and Jack we don't need to plan for when they are not there so lets just tinker around the edges. Tinker we did 2022 we still only really had Tom and Jack and were to the point where we were throwing Balta forward at times.

If we are talking about succession planning then i would say we were poor at it.

Mids same sort of thing we didn't do a hell of a lot until we got to the stage where we were almost forced to take Taranto and Hopper.

Where was the three four plus year planning in all this.

Suddenly we get a set of circumstances where we can aquire a pile of early picks and im expected to believe its all long term planning.
Pardon me for being sceptical.

As i have said before while winning premierships it does not mean we weren't getting some things wrong. We quite obviously were but no one wants to admit it.
We get better by learning from our mistakes i hope the club remembers and learns from what we did not do well.

Any way im not trying to start this all up again just my final thoughts on this.
I will leave it to others to make comment.

I think that’s a fairly good summary. Some will disagree with my opinion. I can’t help it that they’d be wrong
The reality is mistakes have been made. Whether that’s on the coaches instructions…they should have some input but that is all.
Or whether the list was misjudged and we only needed a top up. Trying to copy the cats, but needed upt following clarksons hawks model. Or whatever.
Too many holes in the list. Right across the board. Rucks, key forwards definitely and key backs(to a degree) quick pacy mids, specialist small forwards.
Geez all over the ground really, if anyone can offer an argument against that I’d like to hear it.
So.. our list management has been very poor over the last 4 or 5 years. It’s obvious. Blair isn’t the messiah, he’s not a genius, he’s a good operator, well respected in the business. But that doesn’t help where our list is at. Hits and misses.

Being a good bloke doesn’t pay the bills. I speak from experience

But we now have an opportunity to reset and restock the list. No more blaming, no more excuses. We just need to get it done.

 

[taztiger4]

It has also been said by players and others at RFC that Blair fosters an open door and honest discussion. People forget sometimes that these players are human beings. Shai Bolton is now a young father with a 2nd baby on the way and all their family support structures in Perth.

We also know that he is very tight with Dan Rioli.

You would suspect that a dialogue started and it went from there

100% , unfortunately as Dimma stated on more than 1 occasion that the player has all the power, the clubs would love to be able to trade in contract players to any other club but the AFLPA wont have it

 

[IanG]

Lol now you go too far.
While TP and i are like minded on most issues, i'm definately smarter, better looking and clearly from a far superior lineage.
Sheesh i thought that was pretty obvious.

So definitely sock puppets then. Mods are you looking at this.