Trade Week - Richmond Only

[Willo]

List Management, Salary Cap, All contracts, trade period, recruiting etc are square in Blair's responsibility.

He's the General Manager charged with that portfolio.

If he signs and trades players i.e. Hopper, Tarranto, Lynch etc. Ultimately that is on him. No-one else.

Yes there would have been pressure involved and am sure Dimma exerted some. But Blair is a very big boy and no shrinking violet.

If he didn't believe in those trades he wouldn't have done them. Likewise if Dimma told him to trade a first round pick for say Lewis Young would he have done it? Or course not.

He wears it. Good (Lynch and many others) or bad. We can't pick and choose.

Saying that, he's very very good at his job and along with the other GM in footy Livingstone are the glue to driving us out this ladder position. Everything you ever hear about them from anyone who's had an involvement is always ultra positive. They are two experienced, respected, level-headed, culture drivers that are best placed to navigate this course.

Exactly. No doubt there is a lot of communication from the List Manager, HOF, the Recruiting staff and coaches.
There is a fair amount of trust placed upon each department to do they job they’re employed to do.

The List Manager can’t just change the whole list because a new coach comes in with a different game plan. The (new) would be expected to have a game plan to suit the majority of the current list. It’s far easier to execute a plan that encompasses tha5 than change a list to suit the new game plan.
Having said that, if there was a specific need for a player type, the coach would highlight that need. Then the List manager, recruiters would see what was available as a FA, a trade or whether it was via the draft.

The List Manager is employed by the club. Not the coach. They need to be on the same wave length and work together. But a List Manager is not doing his job if he only operates at the behest of the coach. A coach is there for the here and now.

It takes a few years to put a winning team together.
As we’ve seen, since 2020, there has been a distinct failure to fill the gaping holes in our list.
Where is/was the next Kpp after JR and Lynch? Where is/are the replacements for Astbury? Miller? Gibcus, the first one drafted.
Instead of drafting for the future, we traded that away. Then had to get Naismith as ruck insurance. Tarrant as a Kpp, cheapies. Now Koschitzke. Short cuts.

So we trade out 3 of our best, 4 arguably of our best 22. All of a sudden we have the opportunity to rectify and fill some holes.

It was stated Blair planned this draft for years.That may be true seeing he whittled the list down in the meantime. But it’s a fool who thinks he knew Baker, Bolton, DRioli and Graham would take a nudge and head out the door. Or Soldo was nudged lsat year.

Some believe Blair is a genius. He may be very good at his job. No doubt there have been some big trade/recruiting hits depending on who you believe. If that’s the case was he responsible for the Yarran debacle or can that be laid at Dan Richardsons feet?
Depends who is spinning the narrative. And still it happens.

The best have wins and losses, the aim is to keep the losses to a minimum.
Let’s hope for our sake, come pick trade and draft night, everyone is on the same page as to what or who is needed.

 

[DuD_Delist]

Four of those were Balme’s doing. Blair still hasn’t won a final without Balme. stop going around in circles as it’s all been covered and historical evidence is there for you to see. Can you say hello back to them next time you bump into them. Thanks
Also your response had nothing to do with my post as when we got Griggs and Houli list was being built and they cost us nothing. The other four Balme came at the right time when we had a list coming off 3 of the last 4 years in finals and we were at the right age and experience to challenge unlike October 22 when we sold the farm for two plodders with a tired list.

Balmes appointment was Sept 2016.
Blair(you know our LIST MANAGER) answered to Balme.
Balme ratified any trades.
So i guess your right,Balme gives his tick.

 

[HKTigerB]

Doesn't the club actually have a List Mgt Committee made up of Blair, the coach etc.? Pretty sure I remember that being mentioned in the past. Blair may chair it but I'm pretty sure it would set the overall strategy.

Yes. There was a briefing a few years ago that stated that at the time this group (GM - Benny, Coach, S&C, Recruiting List Manager, Head of Footy, etc - a group of about 15) met once a month to go through status, planning, needs, etc. It was not just a list committee as I recall but overall Footy Ops. Pretty standard corporate structure followed by GM presenting to Board (and oohh our GM is an Exec Board Member). What we have Governance .... Wow I never.... :/s

The format or frequency may have changed a little but seeing Tim, Blair and Benny were keen on that approach a few years ago I would argue it's probably still there. That aligns with a June/July (or May as some posit) meeting that writes off 2024 (let's say end of May) allow a month to re-plan (end of June new plan is agreed to internally - briefed in mid-July so holds), communicate to players, tweak gameplan and training (July - and in line with what was noted by training watchers). That also enables list planning and then working with "key" players/player managers and Blair working out what is best for said player and RFC. Whiteboard the options (a week long exercise) and then present options, pro's and cons to the committee (July ?) get approval and then execute. Probably run it past the board for approval as well. Stock standard management and governance approach.

So yeah, individuals are accountable, but there is a management structure, reporting and agreement that is worked through.

 

[TigerMasochist]

I'm not saying the club haven't made mistakes, but Blair isn't solely responsible as some still are making out. If we are going to blame Blair, then through Balme, Gale, Lingstone, Hardwick etc into the same mix. The strategy of the club is devised by a leadership group made up of these people, they decide if the plan is the here and now, or regenerate or a bit of both. Suggesting that the list build where it is right now is all Blair Hartleys fault is a ridiculous, maybe I should say disgusting take.

Pretty sure I said that in the second paragraph there. Obviously not entirely Blair's fault as there's all sorts of senior management consultation that goes on. Still a lot of it rides on his shoulders though as it's his little gold leaf title on the office door so to speak.
Thankfully, there appears to have been a massive 360 done and a concerted effort to clean up the mess n go again. Just gotta kick arse at the draft table now n nail the selections.

 

[Willo]

Balmes appointment was Sept 2016.
Blair(you know our LIST MANAGER) answered to Balme.
Balme ratified any trades.
So i guess your right,Balme gives his tick.

Right, who is taking the credit for the Yarran trade?

 

[Tiggy Train]

Right, who is taking the credit for the Yarran trade?

Balme had to clean that mess up as well. lol He arrived the season before Balme.

AFL trades: Chris Yarran traded from Carlton to Richmond

Yarran finally gets Richmond move

www.foxsports.com.au

 

[Brodders17]

Haven’t you been posting under your other pseudonym @TIGER-P155 ?

I think TigerWA is TigerPisses son.

 

[Brodders17]

FWIW we needed to do a review at the end of 21 like after 2016 to st kpi's and goals for the next five years as everything went downhill even in fitness and management.
Blair without Balme is like Dimma without Caracella and it was a complete overhaul of the FD and fitness staff after 16 that won our three flags . We have became like Rome as it burnt while Nero fiddled bc of complacency.

You do know Hardwick coached a premiership after Caracella left, yeah?
Must have been luck, as I assume Caracella took his premiership touch with him to the Dons.

 

[TigerMasochist]

Reckon our biggest management issue of recent years is not understanding and adjusting to the effect that recent rule changes have had on the game plus the fact that all other clubs eventually worked out our game style and implemented not just ways to stifle our style while adapting to the more uncontested overlap running style game that those rule changes enabled.
The Hartley's n Livingstone's should have been more aware of what was coming n started adjusting far sooner n more effectively.

 

[Tiggy Train]

You do know Hardwick coached a premiership after Caracella left, yeah?
Must have been luck, as I assume Caracella took his premiership touch with him to the Dons.

The nucleus was built by then as was the game plan.

 

[Tiggy Train]

Reckon our biggest management issue of recent years is not understanding and adjusting to the effect that recent rule changes have had on the game plus the fact that all other clubs eventually worked out our game style and implemented not just ways to stifle our style while adapting to the more uncontested overlap running style game that those rule changes enabled.
The Hartley's n Livingstone's should have been more aware of what was coming n started adjusting far sooner n more effectively.

Too many skinny HBF style kids and slow midfielders. Rucks have been basically ignored except for two Cat B ROOKIES, A skinny kid who struggles to mark and falls like a wind sock without any wind and then get a guy in with poor ACL history. KPF have mainly been band aid ones apart from Fawcett who could be a surprise packet. This draft is our real hope of getting everything we want .

 

[Willo]

Any chance of our p11 and 20 for Adelaide’s pick 4. Pick 4 drops to p5 with Ashcroft match.
Especially if Draper goes to Carlton.
If #lolnorf don’t trade p2 out and a Kpp is too early.

1. FOS Richmond
2. Ashcroft Brisbane match
3. Smith lolnorf
4. Draper Carlton
5. Lalor Richmond
6. Langford Melbourne
7. Reid Richmond
8. Smillie Stk
9. Armstrong Stk
10. Travaglia Melbourne
11. Tauru. Richmond

Or something similar.

 

[Tiggy Train]

Any chance of our p11 and 20 for Adelaide’s pick 4. Pick 4 drops to p5 with Ashcroft match.
Especially if Draper goes to Carlton.
If #lolnorf don’t trade p2 out and a Kpp is too early.

1. FOS Richmond
2. Ashcroft Brisbane match
3. Smith lolnorf
4. Draper Carlton
5. Lalor Richmond
6. Langford Melbourne
7. Reid Richmond
8. Smillie Stk
9. Armstrong Stk
10. Travaglia Melbourne
11. Tauru. Richmond

That dream would be nice if it came to fruition. I think they would want more

AFL Draft Pick Value Calculator - Draftguru

 

[mrposhman]

Exactly. No doubt there is a lot of communication from the List Manager, HOF, the Recruiting staff and coaches.
There is a fair amount of trust placed upon each department to do they job they’re employed to do.

The List Manager can’t just change the whole list because a new coach comes in with a different game plan. The (new) would be expected to have a game plan to suit the majority of the current list. It’s far easier to execute a plan that encompasses tha5 than change a list to suit the new game plan.
Having said that, if there was a specific need for a player type, the coach would highlight that need. Then the List manager, recruiters would see what was available as a FA, a trade or whether it was via the draft.

The List Manager is employed by the club. Not the coach. They need to be on the same wave length and work together. But a List Manager is not doing his job if he only operates at the behest of the coach. A coach is there for the here and now.

It takes a few years to put a winning team together.
As we’ve seen, since 2020, there has been a distinct failure to fill the gaping holes in our list.
Where is/was the next Kpp after JR and Lynch? Where is/are the replacements for Astbury? Miller? Gibcus, the first one drafted.
Instead of drafting for the future, we traded that away. Then had to get Naismith as ruck insurance. Tarrant as a Kpp, cheapies. Now Koschitzke. Short cuts.

So we trade out 3 of our best, 4 arguably of our best 22. All of a sudden we have the opportunity to rectify and fill some holes.

It was stated Blair planned this draft for years.That may be true seeing he whittled the list down in the meantime. But it’s a fool who thinks he knew Baker, Bolton, DRioli and Graham would take a nudge and head out the door. Or Soldo was nudged lsat year.

Some believe Blair is a genius. He may be very good at his job. No doubt there have been some big trade/recruiting hits depending on who you believe. If that’s the case was he responsible for the Yarran debacle or can that be laid at Dan Richardsons feet?
Depends who is spinning the narrative. And still it happens.

The best have wins and losses, the aim is to keep the losses to a minimum.
Let’s hope for our sake, come pick trade and draft night, everyone is on the same page as to what or who is needed.

Forward line for sure we struggled with replacing, maybe our thoughts were looking at free agents, but defensively we absolutely had a plan. Getting Gibcus in was the key part to that, no way, Blair would have been thinking "but what if the kid misses 2 of his first 3 years, so maybe I need to cover for Clarkes pick". The building piece of that defensive structure was drafted and along with Balta should be a well established duo but for Gibcus's unfortunate injuries. If he was 50 games in and playing alongside Balta we'd be comfortable with our backline right now.

I think he planned to be in this draft for sure a few years ago, but no way he thought he'd have the hand he has generated now. I think Carter may be right around Bolton, the timing seems to fit, the commentary from Blair seems to fit etc that we assessed where we were, knew both WA clubs would be interested (probably been asked numerous times by managers) and decided that with their draft hands, we could accelerate our listbuild prior to the Tassie drafts. He probably had some sort of inkling around Bakes too, he was well established in our 22 2 years ago when he re-signed, we most likely wanted to sign him for longer but he didn't, so was always an escape risk this year, similar to Graham who tried to get to Port 2 years ago, so both of those we would have been making contingency plans for, but Rioli is probably the 1 that came out of the blue, and maybe why we got the best return from him, because we refused to give in on our demands for him.

Yarran, he would take responsibility for I'm sure. I'm not sure the issue there was the trade price, or the player / type of player, more that whoever did our due diligence on him, did it very poorly to identify the issues that apparently the Blues were well aware of.

 

[Tigerwa]

I think TigerWA is TigerPisses son.

Lol now you go too far.
While TP and i are like minded on most issues, i'm definately smarter, better looking and clearly from a far superior lineage.
Sheesh i thought that was pretty obvious.

 

[mrposhman]

Lol now you go too far.
While TP and i are like minded on most issues, i'm definately smarter, better looking and clearly from a far superior lineage.
Sheesh i thought that was pretty obvious.

Long lost cousins?

 

[Sintiger]

If Balme is the all-knowing oracle people make out to be, he would have gotten rid of Blair if Blair was *smile*. Balme had no real hesitation to get rid of Dan Richardson after seeing him at work for a year.

Blair is recognized as one of the best in the business. Did he learn and get guidance from Balme when he was there? No doubt. Balme made a difference to RFC in a big way, but Balme didn't single handedly win us 3 Premierships.

All we need to read is that everything good we have done with our list was Balme and everything bad had nothing to do with anyone but Blair. Once you read that crap we know the quality of the posting.

 

[Baloo]

All we need to read is that everything good we have done with our list was Balme and everything bad had nothing to do with anyone but Blair. Once you read that crap we know the quality of the posting.

I did laugh at the Dimma was nothing without Blake reference. I'm surprised anyone stills attempts to play that card. But then I'm not a darksider so I can't relate to how they think

 

[Willo]

Forward line for sure we struggled with replacing, maybe our thoughts were looking at free agents, but defensively we absolutely had a plan. Getting Gibcus in was the key part to that, no way, Blair would have been thinking "but what if the kid misses 2 of his first 3 years, so maybe I need to cover for Clarkes pick". The building piece of that defensive structure was drafted and along with Balta should be a well established duo but for Gibcus's unfortunate injuries. If he was 50 games in and playing alongside Balta we'd be comfortable with our backline right now.

Very true. Gibcus a good pick, who I mentioned, who knew injuries would impact so much. Just bad luck

I think he planned to be in this draft for sure a few years ago, but no way he thought he'd have the hand he has generated now. I think Carter may be right around Bolton, the timing seems to fit,

The timing was off saying he planned it a few years ago. Bolton had settled in by then. He had Narkle and his missus as close friends. It wasn’t until Bolton and partner had a little un last year then with another on the way, that family support was lacking.
But we can believe whatever we like. But I doubt he extends his contract by 5 years in 2022, if he was thinking about heading home . He was still under contract for another 12 months. So I say bs.
Bolton was quoted as saying if a fair deal couldn’t be reached, he was prepared to see out his contract.
Hardly the attitude of someone who had planned to leave when he extended his contract. He could had let his contract expire at the end of 2023.

the commentary from Blair seems to fit etc that we assessed where we were, knew both WA clubs would be interested (probably been asked numerous times by managers) and decided that with their draft hands, we could accelerate our listbuild prior to the Tassie drafts. He probably had some sort of inkling around Bakes too, he was well established in our 22 2 years ago when he re-signed, we most likely wanted to sign him for longer but he didn't, so was always an escape risk this year,

It’s a wonder he didn’t sign for another 5 years like Bolton. . But Blair knowing Baker was coming out of contract and WC list being where they were, it doesn’t take a genius to work that out. Baker was quoted as saying he still hadn’t made his mind up until after the season had finished.
So I doubt Blair had him a target to nudge out the door a couple of years ago

similar to Graham who tried to get to Port 2 years ago, so both of those we would have been making contingency plans for,

Funny set of circumstances back then. Port got JHF in and dropped JG out of any further discussions. It was thought at the time that JG just wanted to head back to SA.That was Sept 2022. That was before Hopper and Taranto trades were struck.
UFA in 2024 JG could have gone either way between staying or going. He said as much himself. Blair raising Richmond’s contract to him hardly suggests Blair had him as a target 2 years ago either.

but Rioli is probably the 1 that came out of the blue, and maybe why we got the best return from him, because we refused to give in on our demands for him.

Yes, that was a big surprise I think.
But if Blair had this draft earmarked 2 years ago, he’d have been clapping his hands getting extra draft picks in, wouldn’t he?
But I doubt that very much. He even said Daniel leaving was a surprise and he’d be held to his contract if Blair’s draft price wasn’t met.
So take out Bolton, Baker, (players have even been quoted as saying they’d be happy to stay) JG not being desperate and Rioli being a surprise. I wonder how Blair was targeting this draft years out. With what currency? Absolute nonsense really. Then it’s, the List Manager works with the coach. No doubt. So a couple of years ago, no one knew Dimma was going to pull the pin and we’d have a new coach in 2024. People make up stories to suit themselves. Not saying you by the way Posh.

Yarran, he would take responsibility for I'm sure. I'm not sure the issue there was the trade price, or the player / type of player, more that whoever did our due diligence on him, did it very poorly to identify the issues that apparently the Blues were well aware of.

Lack of due diligence was certainly the issue. Whoever made the call. I don’t know who was responsible in the end..
The trade price was ok, just the issues that came with him. We wear the blame.

Hits and misses. Every club, every gun recruiter has them.

But as some very astute posters have mentioned, we have what we have now, Blair played the hand he always dealt. He made the most of it. Not a perfect result in some people’s eyes, but given what he has been dealing with he did reasonably well. That’s just my opinion, some believe he did a perfect job, some say he did reasonably and anywhere in between.
Realistically, he still has the opportunity to work with the draft picks. Whether that’s by trading up, down or into next year. The results probably won’t be known for some time.
I can only wish him and FJ if he’s there and the other recruiters good luck with their selections. We’re gonna need it.

 

[mrposhman]

Very true. Gibcus a good pick, who I mentioned, who knew injuries would impact so much. Just bad luck

The timing was off saying he planned it a few years ago. Bolton had settled in by then. He had Narkle and his missus as close friends. It wasn’t until Bolton and partner had a little un last year then with another on the way, that family support was lacking.
But we can believe whatever we like. But I doubt he extends his contract by 5 years in 2022, if he was thinking about heading home . He was still under contract for another 12 months. So I say bs.
Bolton was quoted as saying if a fair deal couldn’t be reached, he was prepared to see out his contract.
Hardly the attitude of someone who had planned to leave when he extended his contract. He could had let his contract expire at the end of 2023.

It’s a wonder he didn’t sign for another 5 years like Bolton. . But Blair knowing Baker was coming out of contract and WC list being where they were, it doesn’t take a genius to work that out. Baker was quoted as saying he still hadn’t made his mind up until after the season had finished.
So I doubt Blair had him a target to nudge out the door a couple of years ago

Funny set of circumstances back then. Port got JHF in and dropped JG out of any further discussions. It was thought at the time that JG just wanted to head back to SA.That was Sept 2022. That was before Hopper and Taranto trades were struck.
UFA in 2024 JG could have gone either way between staying or going. He said as much himself. Blair raising Richmond’s contract to him hardly suggests Blair had him as a target 2 years ago either.

Yes, that was a big surprise I think.
But if Blair had this draft earmarked 2 years ago, he’d have been clapping his hands getting extra draft picks in, wouldn’t he?
But I doubt that very much. He even said Daniel leaving was a surprise and he’d be held to his contract if Blair’s draft price wasn’t met.
So take out Bolton, Baker, (players have even been quoted as saying they’d be happy to stay) JG not being desperate and Rioli being a surprise. I wonder how Blair was targeting this draft years out. With what currency? Absolute nonsense really. Then it’s, the List Manager works with the coach. No doubt. So a couple of years ago, no one knew Dimma was going to pull the pin and we’d have a new coach in 2024. People make up stories to suit themselves. Not saying you by the way Posh.



Lack of due diligence was certainly the issue. Whoever made the call. I don’t know who was responsible in the end..
The trade price was ok, just the issues that came with him. We wear the blame.

Hits and misses. Every club, every gun recruiter has them.

But as some very astute posters have mentioned, we have what we have now, Blair played the hand he always dealt. He made the most of it. Not a perfect result in some people’s eyes, but given what he has been dealing with he did reasonably well. That’s just my opinion, some believe he did a perfect job, some say he did reasonably and anywhere in between.
Realistically, he still has the opportunity to work with the draft picks. Whether that’s by trading up, down or into next year. The results probably won’t be known for some time.
I can only wish him and FJ if he’s there and the other recruiters good luck with their selections. We’re gonna need it.

I think he targeted this draft by trading forward into it from last year. We only 2 middling picks last year (McAuliffe and Fawcett) and were happy to trade back to get extra picks in this draft.

You misunderstand my point on Bolton. In terms of timing I didn't mean 2 years ago when he re-signed. We heard from Blair that he was always interested in wanting to go back, interesting then that the year that he requested to go back, the WA teams (both of them) had the currency to make the trade work. Whether you think that was Bolton and his management that made that call, or Blair had the discussion with Shai to sort of say, "look, we know you've wanted to head back to WA at some point, we feel this year is the best year where we can get a win-win for both you and for the club, are you interested". That part I think could conceivably have occurred and he would have had some inkling that both Baker and Graham would take a look elsewhere, as I said previously, I reckon the only 1 that probably took Blair and the club by surprise was Rioli which is why we played hardball on that trade, more so than the others.

Not saying Graham or Baker were targets of Blairs, but contingencies would have been strewn up in that if he goes, we would want it to work for us in the draft that we'd like. Baker in particular, it would be interesting to know from the club whether it was them of Bakes that wanted his contract to expire 1 year before free agency. That must have been planned, otherwise why not take the extra year to free agency and then exercise his right to leave at that point?