Thoroughbred racing | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Thoroughbred racing

Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

rosy23 said:
I don't think the thread is off track Streaker. I offered to create a separate Racing board so we could have threads for different related discussions. The overall preference was to keep racing talk on the one thread. Therefore if people wish to discuss jumps racing this is the relevant thread. I can split the discussion if the majority desire it though.

8)

Said in jest Rosy. I did say "back on the track" rather than "back on track"as a subtle reference to focussing on actually racing rather than broader industry issues. It was also why I wished him good luck, given the nature of the topic being debated and the strength of opinions being expressed.

As long as it has something to do with horse racing, it has a home here.
 
Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

Tiger74 said:
Unfortunately some are putting the message out there that the knackery is a lazy options, and non racing options could be found if owners/trainers could be bothered. Unfortunately my understanding is this isn't quite right, because (from what I've been told) the market for ex racing horses is small (even if you effectively give them away), and many horses due to temperament are nit suitable for younger riders (which restricts placement options further).

I hope they work out a viable option, because while no one likes the idea of horses being sent to their death, I think some are seriously downplaying how hard it is to find horses a life after racing.


Who is telling you the market for ex racing horses is small? Those who are disposing of them once they don't have a use for them any more? Did they also tell you about how much effort, or lack thereof, is made to re-home a horse?

Similar claims were made by someone working in the industry earlier on this thread and I offered to give a home to a couple. No response.

Plenty of ex-race horses are re-homed. Plenty are suitable for many different uses. I don't recall one horse being sent to the knackers from when I was involved and used to ride trackwork. I know heaps of people who have ex-racehorses as hacks, show horses, eventing horses, friends, paddock companions, police horses. I've had them myself. Even if not ridden plenty live their lives out once their racing career is finished.

From my experience many ex-racehorses are very well behaved. They have been handled and ridden more than most. Of course there are exceptions and some mightn't be suitable but they are a minority from my experience. Seems more a lazy option to me.

Most "younger" riders probably aren't suitable for 16 or so hand horses so not sure of the overall relevance and impact there. Probably as much as vegans. :rofl
 
Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

My colleague is an owner, but she is not a major player.

Reference to younger riders was because people keep ringing talk back saying they should be donated to pony clubs for free to encourage kids to take up riding. Agree its not practical.
 
Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

jb03 said:
No they are not but dog "owners" will often just abandon the dog - either at a shelter or effectively in the wild or public so it is effectively the same thing as killing it. A lot of dogs get put down as well. IN fact, perhaps the argument is similar - is it better to put down an unwanted dog rather than let it spend its life in a cage at the RSPCA shelters?

The percentage of pet dogs that end up being put down because they're unwanted is a hell of a lot smaller than the percentage of racehorses that get slaughtered because they weren't fast enough. I know the law will never fix everything, but it seems really perverse to me that someone should be able to afford the luxury of owning a racehorse but not have the burden of ensuring that the animal is cared for throughout it's life, not just while it serves a purpose.

To answer your question - yes, it probably is better. That's why they only keep dogs up for adoption for a smallish amount of time before they're put down.
 
Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

I took part in a radio debate a couple of years ago and the host kept putting two arguments forward that I thought i rebutted but he wouldn't accept my reasoning.

The first point was that he kept saying it was the thin 'edge' of the wedge. (I told him it was 'thin end,' but he accused me of nit-picking). Therefore, if we ban jumps, eventually the flats would be banned. I tried to point out that this sort of thin end argument most of us learned about in Year 10 English as being an arguing technique not really based on reality. I explained, for example, that whilst i was opposed to jumps, i wasn't opposed to the flats and that I was sure many were of the same opinion as me.

He wouldn't cop that and kept suggesting that there was some sort of green/left/political conspiracy to ban jumps which would then move onto ban flats.

Secondly he kept saying that if we banned jumps then we would have to destroy every jumps horse straightaway and that it would be a mass slaughter of beautiful animals. I was tempted to suggest that it would be better than getting old and then dying in agony under a tarp on a cold day in Warrnambool (a fate which I hope happens to none of us!!)

However, I tried to suggest that this wouldn't be necessary if we slowly reduced the numbers of horses specifically bred for racing. If there were less, and jumping was banned, then clearly fewer numbers of horses would die at the jumps and an alternative would need to be found for those whose racing days were over. ie. ban jumps, reduce breeding, less horses, less death, less 'disposal.'

Unfortunately he thought I was arguing against the laws of nature and biology. It's like he considered horses to like wild rabbits screwing away uncontrollably so we had to do something with them, like putting them over the jumps. (The horses not the rabbits)

So he basically dismissed my arguments and got back to the old conspiracy theories about out of work dole bludgers being a rent-a-crowd.

I tried, Lord knows I tried.
 
Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

Disco08 said:
I know the law will never fix everything, but it seems really perverse to me that someone should be able to afford the luxury of owning a racehorse but not have the burden of ensuring that the animal is cared for throughout it's life, not just while it serves a purpose.
Whether it is morally or ethically right it won't happen. Race horse owners don't make any money as it is - if your horse stops racing at 5 and lives to 15, and you had to pay for its care, then owners will disappear. As you have basically pointed out, horses are bought essentially to make their owners money, dogs are generally not bought for that purpose. Hence once it can't make you money you discard it - really that is the brutal reality regardless of whether it is right or wrong.

Jumps racing will eventually go, seems inevitable. However the flat industry is simply too big to be touched.
 
Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

Jumpin Jimmy Jess said:
I took part in a radio debate a couple of years ago and the host kept putting two arguments forward that I thought i rebutted but he wouldn't accept my reasoning.

The first point was that he kept saying it was the thin 'edge' of the wedge. (I told him it was 'thin end,' but he accused me of nit-picking). Therefore, if we ban jumps, eventually the flats would be banned. I tried to point out that this sort of thin end argument most of us learned about in Year 10 English as being an arguing technique not really based on reality. I explained, for example, that whilst i was opposed to jumps, i wasn't opposed to the flats and that I was sure many were of the same opinion as me.

He wouldn't cop that and kept suggesting that there was some sort of green/left/political conspiracy to ban jumps which would then move onto ban flats.

Secondly he kept saying that if we banned jumps then we would have to destroy every jumps horse straightaway and that it would be a mass slaughter of beautiful animals. I was tempted to suggest that it would be better than getting old and then dying in agony under a tarp on a cold day in Warrnambool (a fate which I hope happens to none of us!!)

However, I tried to suggest that this wouldn't be necessary if we slowly reduced the numbers of horses specifically bred for racing. If there were less, and jumping was banned, then clearly fewer numbers of horses would die at the jumps and an alternative would need to be found for those whose racing days were over. ie. ban jumps, reduce breeding, less horses, less death, less 'disposal.'

Unfortunately he thought I was arguing against the laws of nature and biology. It's like he considered horses to like wild rabbits screwing away uncontrollably so we had to do something with them, like putting them over the jumps. (The horses not the rabbits)

So he basically dismissed my arguments and got back to the old conspiracy theories about out of work dole bludgers being a rent-a-crowd.

I tried, Lord knows I tried.

good post JJJ
 
Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

jb03 said:
Whether it is morally or ethically right it won't happen. Race horse owners don't make any money as it is - if your horse stops racing at 5 and lives to 15, and you had to pay for its care, then owners will disappear. As you have basically pointed out, horses are bought essentially to make their owners money, dogs are generally not bought for that purpose. Hence once it can't make you money you discard it - really that is the brutal reality regardless of whether it is right or wrong.

So leave racing to those who can afford it. Why should this industry get a pass from morals and ethics?
 
Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

Disco08 said:
So leave racing to those who can afford it. Why should this industry get a pass from morals and ethics?

Problem is not many could afford it. Interest in racing is already on the slide as it is so participation from the rank and file is important.

And you are quite possibly morally and ethically right but it is simply not going to happen.
 
Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

You're right. Money is more important than morals, ethics and the animal's welfare. I'll bet you plenty of these people bag Japan for their whaling though. Hypocrites.
 
Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

Disco08 said:
You're right. Money is more important than morals, ethics and the animal's welfare. I'll bet you plenty of these people bag Japan for their whaling though. Hypocrites.
Hmmm interesting comparison. I assume 'they' bag Japan for whaling because it doesn't benefit them personally.
 
Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

PRE Punters Club

Streak's Insurgency streaks to victory in the west

Streak kicked the PRE Punters Club can last Saturday with his adventure across the Nullabor. Getting the $5 fixed price provided a collect of $50 and a win of $40. Way to streak - Streak

Rosy - $40 remitted to PRE Admin account today.......

Don't know what happened to Bringbakflemmo - hope you're OK mate and nothing bad has befallen you! PM me and we will slot you in later down the list.

This week the champion - Streak takes on the challenger - felix

felix, Streak is in form so get your "A Game" on if you want to be the champ next week.

Please have your selections posted on this thread by 11am Saturday. Thanks.......RT


Order of punters for 2011 - Azzamoot has been included in our club list.

1. Bignige
2. Rolls Royce
3. eastlavy
4. Blood_17 - Return $14.00
5. Son of Francis
6. Rosy23 - Return $92.70 - Club House Leader
7. Bernie
8. Tiger44
9. happytige
10. Bringbakflemmo
11.Streak - Return $50 - The Champion
12. felix - The Challenger
13. tannerztigers
14. shamenka
15. Azzamoot
16. Remote Tiger


The rules are simple -

1. Each punting weekend (usually Saturday) there is a challenger and a champion
2. Both the challenger and the champion have $10 to bet - win or place or eachway and/or allup on the thoroughbred horses OR on the AFL.

E.G. Either –
$10 win horse A, or
$10 place horse A, or
$5 win horse A and $5 win horse B, or
$5 win horse A and $5 place horse B, or
$5 place horse A and $5 place horse B, or
$5 eachway horse A, or
For those who wish to dare it is OK to have
$5 win horse A allup a win horse B, and $5 place horse A allup a place horse B, or
$5 win horse A and $5 place horse A allup a place horse B or
$10 a win on an AFL game or
$5 win on an AFL game and $5 a win an AFL game allup another AFL Game or
$10 pick the AFL margin or
$5 pick the AFL margin and $5 pick the AFL scores


3. If you collect more than the $10 outlay and more than your opponent on the day you become the champion next week.

4. Thoroughbred Selections can be at any Saturday metropolitan meeting in Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane or Adelaide. (On weekends where there are Group races on the Monday or Sunday as well as or instead of the Saturday racing the PRE Punter(s) in the chair can forgo the Saturday racing and bet on the Monday or Sunday). Please post your selections on the thoroughbred thread by 11.00am on the day of the races so it gives me time to find them and put them on. AFL selections have to be on Saturday or Sunday games only (no Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Monday or Tuesday games) and please post your selections by 11am Saturday.

5. All profits on your bet (no matter how small) will be posted to Rosy's bank account to help with the admin costs of PRE

6. All bets are put on Remote Tigers Darwin Bookie IASbet.com hence there is no outlay by other members of the Punting Club.

7. A list of all those who have entered will be determined by draw to define the order of punters. Please keep an eye on the Thoroughbred Thread during the PRE Punter of the Year 2011 punting period so you do not miss your turn.

8. A total of collects for each member will be maintained by Remote Tiger and the member with the largest total of collects by the last day of the Melbourne Spring Racing Carnival will be announced the PRE Punter of The Year 2011
 
Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

Put them up anyway tannerz. Always interesting to read others' thoughts about upcoming races. Better than reading about the successful bets after the races have been run and won.
 
Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

rosy23 said:
Put them up anyway tannerz. Always interesting to read others' thoughts about upcoming races. Better than reading about the successful bets after the races have been run and won.

Haha fair call. Will do tomorrow night.
 
Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

Bit of a scoop by SCOOP for the punters on PRE.

My mail tells me that boom colt Moshe may be moving on to a new home and teaming up with a famous big sister after a fallout between owners and John Hawkes. The entire syndicate that Moshe is a part of will be moving across to the Peter Moody stable.
 
Re: Thoroughbred Horse Racing [Merged]

SCOOP said:
Bit of a scoop by SCOOP for the punters on PRE.

My mail tells me that boom colt Moshe may be moving on to a new home and teaming up with a famous big sister after a fallout between owners and John Hawkes. The entire syndicate that Moshe is a part of will be moving across to the Peter Moody stable.

Been a bit disappointing. Think the owners may over rate it.
 
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