The Weagles and bottoming out. | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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The Weagles and bottoming out.

Super9Nova said:
Nicoski kicking goals has been a revelation. He was a fringe player not long back from memory.

Fringe backman from the Jordie McMahon school of soft blokes who kick the ball away under pressure. Asked for a trade ... WCE said OK ... no one bit ... the crickets were defeaning. Was contracted so hung around. Told to go to the forward line in a Jake King type forward pressure role. And blow me down he started kicking goals. Probably helps in that he would be the 7th-8th best forward out there. By the time Kennedy, LeCras, Lynch, Darling, Cox/Naitanui, resting rover have been manned up he is on the gravy train.

They don't all have to be stars.
 
Lennox Street said:
Fringe backman from the Jordie McMahon school of soft blokes who kick the ball away under pressure. Asked for a trade ... WCE said OK ... no one bit ... the crickets were defeaning. Was contracted so hung around. Told to go to the forward line in a Jake King type forward pressure role. And blow me down he started kicking goals. Probably helps in that he would be the 7th-8th best forward out there. By the time Kennedy, LeCras, Lynch, Darling, Cox/Naitanui, resting rover have been manned up he is on the gravy train.

They don't all have to be stars.

Amazing how the fringies can come on when the teams up and about. Obviously it was forward line or bust for Nicoski. Always happy to see a player resurrect his career. Theres hope for Mitch Farmer yet!
 
What has been pivotal has been the fact they are a strong club and stuck with their coach when things were going bad. Would have been easy to sack Woosha and go with someone else. Who knows where they would be now if they had have got rid of him.
 
West Coast absolutely nailed the 2010 draft, have to say I'm particularly envious.
 
Super9Nova said:
Amazing how the fringies can come on when the teams up and about. Obviously it was forward line or bust for Nicoski. Always happy to see a player resurrect his career. Theres hope for Mitch Farmer yet!

Matt Clape could / should have won the 95 Norm Smith medal.
 
Punxsutawney Phil said:
What has been pivotal has been the fact they are a strong club and stuck with their coach when things were going bad. Would have been easy to sack Woosha and go with someone else. Who knows where they would be now if they had have got rid of him.
What has been pivotal is their draw. They finished fourth by winning only three games against teams in the 8. Watch for a plummet next year.
 
Bill James said:
What has been pivotal is their draw. They finished fourth by winning only three games against teams in the 8. Watch for a plummet next year.

Bit misleading though. They can't play themselves and the top-3 sides only lost 9 games between them - mostly to each other. 3-5 against the top 7 and 14-0 against the bottom 9. That's the way it goes nowdays. Beat the teams that miss the finals and that is enough to make the grade.
 
To me the rise of West Coast reminds me that the gap between near the top and near the bottom is not as big as many think . Year after year the media and supporters think that the best you can hope for is incremental improvement and the worst is a small drop . Its not true . Sometimes clubs climb quickly and fall quickly . Whilst the rise of West Coast was not predicted by many neither was the big fall of the bulldogs .

IMO right now we have a group of teams who finished 6th to 14th who are not that far apart . Sydney , St.Kilda , Essendon, North , Bulldogs , Melbourne , Fremantle , Richmond and Adelaide and I would be even tempted to put Brisbane close to that group as well , would all have hopes for 2012 . If any of these teams recruit well , have success with first year players and have a good run with injuries they would expect to play finals in 2012 . Where some of them are better placed than others is the scope for improvement in 19-22 year olds on the list , we are one of those .

This year we had break out seasons for Vickery , Rance and Nahas . If say Astbury , Griffiths and Conca mirrored that next year I think many would be surprised at how good we could be in 2012 , maybe not to WCE levels but finals . However if we had a bad run with injuries and these players stagnated we could finish bottom 4 . That's why I don't subscribe to the theories about how far we are from finals . We lack depth of quality but our best 22 is not far off finals quality .
 
Sintiger said:
To me the rise of West Coast reminds me that the gap between near the top and near the bottom is not as big as many think . Year after year the media and supporters think that the best you can hope for is incremental improvement and the worst is a small drop . Its not true . Sometimes clubs climb quickly and fall quickly . Whilst the rise of West Coast was not predicted by many neither was the big fall of the bulldogs .

IMO right now we have a group of teams who finished 6th to 14th who are not that far apart . Sydney , St.Kilda , Essendon, North , Bulldogs , Melbourne , Fremantle , Richmond and Adelaide and I would be even tempted to put Brisbane close to that group as well , would all have hopes for 2012 . If any of these teams recruit well , have success with first year players and have a good run with injuries they would expect to play finals in 2012 . Where some of them are better placed than others is the scope for improvement in 19-22 year olds on the list , we are one of those .

This year we had break out seasons for Vickery , Rance and Nahas . If say Astbury , Griffiths and Conca mirrored that next year I think many would be surprised at how good we could be in 2012 , maybe not to WCE levels but finals . However if we had a bad run with injuries and these players stagnated we could finish bottom 4 . That's why I don't subscribe to the theories about how far we are from finals . We lack depth of quality but our best 22 is not far off finals quality .

If we nail our draft/trade i can see us with 5 ready-made players for round 1. Whether or not they are all good enough to knock current players out would remain to be seen but the competition over summer and pre-season alone would make us a much better side. Currently players can cruise. Look at the *smile* at Coburg!! Depending on what we target i could see us with 3 ready-made mids with 1st 3 picks (Kavanagh, Waldhuter, Verrier) and Steve Morris with the 4th plus Maric in a trade. I agree we could finish 6-10 with a good run but also finish 15th-16th with a bad injury run.
 
Spot on Sin. The big gap is between 'making finals' and winning or even seriously contending for flags. All year this year it's been Collingwood and Geelong, then the rest, with only Hawthorn given a small chance of upsetting the applecart. Come down to the second-last week and the scenario's exactly the same.
 
Sintiger said:
To me the rise of West Coast reminds me that the gap between near the top and near the bottom is not as big as many think . Year after year the media and supporters think that the best you can hope for is incremental improvement and the worst is a small drop . Its not true . Sometimes clubs climb quickly and fall quickly . Whilst the rise of West Coast was not predicted by many neither was the big fall of the bulldogs .

IMO right now we have a group of teams who finished 6th to 14th who are not that far apart . Sydney , St.Kilda , Essendon, North , Bulldogs , Melbourne , Fremantle , Richmond and Adelaide and I would be even tempted to put Brisbane close to that group as well , would all have hopes for 2012 . If any of these teams recruit well , have success with first year players and have a good run with injuries they would expect to play finals in 2012 . Where some of them are better placed than others is the scope for improvement in 19-22 year olds on the list , we are one of those .

This year we had break out seasons for Vickery , Rance and Nahas . If say Astbury , Griffiths and Conca mirrored that next year I think many would be surprised at how good we could be in 2012 , maybe not to WCE levels but finals . However if we had a bad run with injuries and these players stagnated we could finish bottom 4 . That's why I don't subscribe to the theories about how far we are from finals . We lack depth of quality but our best 22 is not far off finals quality .

Yep. This is correct.

Brisbane and Melbourne are the wildcards for me next year. I think that Brisbane were not fussed whether they won or not in the second half of the season. If they can get J. Brown, Merrett, Patfull and Adcock fully fit, their team stregthens immensely, especially in defence.

I wouldn't be too fooled by Melbourne's average year either. They were talked up pre-season and some of their players got ahead of themselves. When Bailey fell, it was all over. They have a better list than some might think.

I fully expect both these teams to be challenging for top 8 in 2012.

On the other hand, the Saints are now in trouble, Geelong might be looking at losing 1000+ games of experience, Essendon are no better than most of the teams that missed the finals and WC are a couple of key injuries away from a yo-yo year. They wouldn't want to lose Glass, Cox and Kerr for most of the season again. Sydney are not that great either, although they will try to trade their way into finals again this off-season.

There could be quite a bit of ladder movement next year. If Buckley has a few teething problems next year it could become very interesting.
 
Big jumps up the table are certainly possible.

LTRTR (or someone) can hopefully back leysy up, but there has been a team near every year over the last decade that has come from outside the top 8 to go inside the top 4.

We arent ready, but ILO memory serves him correctly history says someone will.
 
I hope against hope at the start of every year we can defy the odds and "come from the clouds" to snag the flag. Why bother following the club otherwise? It ain't like pommy soccer, there's only one prize, there's no cups, euro spots or promotion /relegation battles to keep us interested. Tanking for draft picks doesn't quite cut it for me as an enthralling scenario.

This time I believe we actually have a few premiership capable players to do it. As far as I'm concerned if a team containing both Cotchin and Martin in it can't win a flag at some point along the line then there's something very wrong with the club and the way it's run.
 
Leysy Days said:
LTRTR (or someone) can hopefully back leysy up, but there has been a team near every year over the last decade that has come from outside the top 8 to go inside the top 4.

Top four clubs which were lowest-placed the previous year:

2011 West Coast (16th/4th)
2010 Collingwood (4th/1st)
2009 Collingwood (6th/4th)
2008 Western Bulldogs (13th/3rd)
2007 North Melbourne (14th/4th)
2006 Fremantle (10th/3rd)
2005 Adelaide (12th/1st)
2004 Geelong (12th/4th)
2003 Sydney (11th/4th)
2002 Collingwood (9th/4th)
2001 St.Kilda (14th/3rd)
2000 Melbourne (14th/3rd)
1999 Brisbane (16th/3rd)
1998 Melbourne (16th/4th)
1997 Western Bulldogs (15th/3rd)
1996 Sydney (12th/1st)
1995 Essendon (10th/4th)
1994 Geelong (7th/4th)
1993 North Melbourne (12th/3rd)
1992 Western Bulldogs (10th/2nd)
1991 Geelong (10th/3rd)
1990 West Coast (11th/3rd)
1989 Geelong (9th/3rd)
1988 Collingwood (12th/2nd)
1987 North Melbourne (7th/4th)
1986 Sydney (10th/2nd)
 
North finished 4th in 2007? What happened in the finals - straight sets? Or was 4th the final finishing position?
 
jb03 said:
North finished 4th in 2007?  What happened in the finals - straight sets?  Or was 4th the final finishing position?

Sorry, second position listed is the h&a finish. North got flogged by Geelong, defeated Hawthorn when Edwards took that screamer, then were flogged by Port. Their ladder position after the finals was actually 3rd.
 
jb03 said:
North finished 4th in 2007? What happened in the finals - straight sets? Or was 4th the final finishing position?

Got beat by Port in pre-final. Technically 3rd.

Laidley was on radio the other day saying how big of a legup they got by getting blokes out for surgery early the year prior.
 
Thanks chaps. Bit of an aberration that year from North. Don't remember them ever being a threat - though I guess no one was.
 
LeeToRainesToRoach said:
Top four clubs which were lowest-placed the previous year:

2011 West Coast (16th/4th)
2010 Collingwood (4th/1st)
2009 Collingwood (6th/4th)
2008 Western Bulldogs (13th/3rd)
2007 North Melbourne (14th/4th)
2006 Fremantle (10th/3rd)
2005 Adelaide (12th/1st)
2004 Geelong (12th/4th)
2003 Sydney (11th/4th)
2002 Collingwood (9th/4th)
2001 St.Kilda (14th/3rd)
2000 Melbourne (14th/3rd)
1999 Brisbane (16th/3rd)
1998 Melbourne (16th/4th)
1997 Western Bulldogs (15th/3rd)
1996 Sydney (12th/1st)
1995 Essendon (10th/4th)
1994 Geelong (7th/4th)
1993 North Melbourne (12th/3rd)
1992 Western Bulldogs (10th/2nd)
1991 Geelong (10th/3rd)
1990 West Coast (11th/3rd)
1989 Geelong (9th/3rd)
1988 Collingwood (12th/2nd)
1987 North Melbourne (7th/4th)
1986 Sydney (10th/2nd)

Cheers LTRTR.

So for 20 years (88-08) only once did a team not jump from outside the 8 to inside top 4 ('94').

Thats changed in 09 & 10. With WC back into the trend this year.