Big Cat Lover said:
gram was drafted by the lions. he was traded to the saints in 2004. in 4 picks in 2001, 3 cant get a game. only the pick 13 any good this year.
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The Pros and Cons of Tanking (Merged)
- Thread starter AstuteTiger
- Start date
gram was drafted by the lions. he was traded to the saints in 2004. in 4 picks in 2001, 3 cant get a game. only the pick 13 any good this year.
yep. of course we should have many many more early picks than stkilda they regularly finish in finals. since the last time we played finals 01 we have utilised just 3 top 5 picks and two of them in the one yr.Big Cat Lover said:
we regularly finish bottom 8 yet we fail to bottom out and go into proper rebuild.they are linked or should be. the way we use our picks tells us this.
i dont think anyone is disagreeing that we have not used picks well or for that matter even used them. the point being made is we havent gone into a proper rebuild.the club has not embraced a bottoming out process its plain for all to see.yep we always have low finishes and yep we have had low picks but they have always taken the quick fix route they have never said well we are going to be right at the bottom of the ladder for 2 3 or 4 yrs it just has not happened. and what has been pointed out is what would/could have happened if we had.Freezer said:
as for us us having picks 1 to 10 for the next 5 yrs its rubbish. on the few occasions since we last played finals that we have used top 5 picks, which is just 3 times we have come out smelling of roses. the idea of bottoming out and tanking is to get two inside the top 5 for two or 3 yrs. it coincides with a proper clean out and the use of many many picks.
having poor recruiters i would have thought it makes it even more imperative to get top 5 picks and as many earlier picks in each round as possible.
read some of the clubs history they were hoping ryder would be there they wanted selwood finishing 9th is considered no mans land for a reason. dont try and tell me that if we had committed to a bottoming out process cleaned another big bunch of the hacks that infest the list at the end of 07 and kept our pp that we would not be better off now.
again 07 2 cotchin 18 rance 19 selwood. 08 1 watts 3 rich 09 1 scully 3 morabito. add them to deledio tambling foley riewoldt post.how much better of are we.
Big Cat Lover said:
Well 9 picks to 5 in top 10 but 3 of those are at pick 9. 9 means you finished 8th on the ladder. Thats hardly bottoming out. How many times have the Tigers finished 8th or higher in the last 20 years? Twice? 1 less pick in the top 5, that's where you get you bottoming out picks.
Big Cat Lover said:
K let me ask you who out of Reiwoldt, Koschitzke, Ball, Goddard are bonafide top 2 picks? Id say Reiwoldt and Goddard. Saints could have definitely done better with the others with later picks at the time. Whats next? Xavier Clark at 5. Pass.
Who have we recruited more recently? Deledio, Cotchin, Tambling. We've had pur fair share of top picks, not really much less than other teams over the same period.
Big Cat Lover said:
No I dont necessarily no. I have seen Melbourne play some shockers. I dont know that they have any better youngsters than the Tigers. They have their fair share of older players retiring. They've only had 3 wins for the season. No-one turns up to their games. Their coach is average at best. What is it that makes you inspired by Melbourne. Is it a case of 'greener on the other side'?
As for Carlton, they have some mature players in their side at the right age, a far cry from Melbourne's current situation. Wiggins, Waite, Thornton, Simpson, O'Halpin, Judd, Hadley, Fisher, Cloke, Carrazzo all between 24 and 26 yo
Big Cat Lover said:
Well firstly its one extra Pick at around the 20 mark, not two. Secondly, of course, Id like the extra pick, just like we had last time, when we exchanged it for McMahon. See the point? Its not a tanking issue its a draft selection issue. Did we tank to get that extra pick? No we were just cr@p. Thats my point from the start. We have had just as many picks as other clubs, mostly more because we are cr@p, same result. So why all this talk about we should have tanked? We are 3rd last on the ladder, we are playing youngsters. Other than the players actually not try (wondering about Saturday now that I think about it), what do we want to do to enforce this 'tank' philosophy? Its a competitive game. The instinct is to try and win.
macguire and ball were instrumental in them playing finals and going pretty darn close in 04 and 05 injuries have cruelled them both since you cant draft against that. but i suppose this doesnt count. :Brodders17 said:
again ball and mcguire are better even after being crippled than most of our list.they could afford to trade for players they had already gone thru an extensive rebuild
. by the way stkilda used pick 23 on gram he was only 19. he was a first round pick in 2001 but couldnt get a game at brissie not with voss power akermanis black lappin and others in front of him.with all this in mind he was a bargain.he was traded to stkildain 03. the circumstances around this trade make it a virtual draft pick.
take a look at the players they trade for with actual picks. in the main, players taken were original early picks and players who have been good at some stage of their careers or both.
2000 the yr they bottomed out look at their trades, callaghan a player for player trade capuano another player for player trade the reasoning was sound they needed a ruckman or three. callaghan was tough but injury prone.
gehrig at 18 a power forward and still only 23.. hamill pick 4 a utility and a bloody hard at it good one at that. still only 23. with all these trades they kept picks 1 and 2. they traded for decent ready made players who were still young.
01 they traded for heath black. imo a mistake but he had gone okay at freo. black was an original first round pick.black was just 22.
knobel cost them pick 45 they were still chasing a ruckman or 3. they should have bit the bullet and took one in the nd.
they kept picks 2 5 13 21 37,
i could go on but the theme of their trading is similar and i digress one thing though they have had a first rnd pick every yr since 2000 bar one.
whats it got to do with the debate buggered if i know.
Well with all the talk about winning and losing and whether we shouldve won this match or lost that match, the footy gods seem to have looked over us, if freo who are 39 pts up at 3 qtr time win, tiges get pic 3...
We wont beat WC at Subi nor should we....
Pic 3 will land us one of Trengove, Butcher or Morabito....I am over the moon that one of these 3 will be at punt road in 2010
We wont beat WC at Subi nor should we....
Pic 3 will land us one of Trengove, Butcher or Morabito....I am over the moon that one of these 3 will be at punt road in 2010
I reckon most top 5 (at the very least) draft picks will know they're headed for bottom side clubs by now.LeeToRainesToRoach said:Wonder how Trengove, Butcher & Morabito feel about the prospect...
LeeToRainesToRoach said:Wonder how Trengove, Butcher & Morabito feel about the prospect...
good one Lee, unfortuaneltly they dont have a choice in the matter, its like scully saying *smile* im going to melb
GoodOne said:
We don't have one and we've missed No.1, 19 & 20. Well done tigers, great vision. Where's those shades?
Big Cat Lover said:
dont think we were ever going to get pic 1, had we lost to melb they wouldve manafactured a loss to freo, bailey has done well with the tank...
a big part of this debate was wins v pp picks. i wonder what those deluded fools the win at all costs crowd think now about one win and one draw. we are where we belong near the bottom and needing all the assistance we can get. and ya know what we will be near the bottom for awhile.
if i was a betting man my money would be on pick 4 coming to richmond next yr along with a pick at the start of the second round.
by god we are a rabble we cant get anything right not even losing.
if i was a betting man my money would be on pick 4 coming to richmond next yr along with a pick at the start of the second round.
by god we are a rabble we cant get anything right not even losing.
the claw said:
Claw i think most have acknowledged that by the voting of late, well u know my thoughts on the PP would've loved it but whats done is done...
We now have to move players to get pics in, IE: jackson, *smile*/hughes, patto, mcmahon etc etc
By the way nah i reckon we'll hold on to pic 3, we wont beat WC at Subi, there last game and with the Cuz factor WC will play hard to win...
Draft pics (inc priority pic) 95 (55.9%)
Late Season Wins 75 (44.1%)
Total Voters: 170
Big Cat Lover said:
Like I said how stupid does that make Fremantle, North and West Coast. A few weeks ago according to some all those teams were tanking and doing it just sooo much better than the Tigers.
Melbourne were always going to get Pick 1 and 2 (or 3).
the claw said:
LMFAO and i mean im really laughing reading ur post, my word i misunderstood i was thinking next week RD 22 not at the end of the 2010 season...
If melb go butcher and scully then obviously we go trengove who looks good, smooth, good ball user and goes in...
If melb go pics 1 and 2 on mids "scully and trengove" then id go Butcher...
Some of said even if we beat WC 2nite freo will go Morabito at pic 3 if we jump over them on the ladder, i agree that Freo will go Morabito ahead of either trengove or Butcher and that would net us either butcher or trengove depending on who’s available come our pic, but i have to say it aint only about pic 3, it’s the subsequent rounds too i dont want a pic behind freo in the 2nd, 3rd, 4th rounds of the ND etc plus being behind both melb and freo in the PSD and Rookie draft...
A loss 2nite and we have pic 3, and 2nd pic for every subsequent round, plus 2nd pic in the PSD and rookie draft...well this yrs rookie draft GC have the first 5 pics then in order of ladder position, currently we have pic 7....
If melb go pics 1 and 2 on mids "scully and trengove" then id go Butcher...
Some of said even if we beat WC 2nite freo will go Morabito at pic 3 if we jump over them on the ladder, i agree that Freo will go Morabito ahead of either trengove or Butcher and that would net us either butcher or trengove depending on who’s available come our pic, but i have to say it aint only about pic 3, it’s the subsequent rounds too i dont want a pic behind freo in the 2nd, 3rd, 4th rounds of the ND etc plus being behind both melb and freo in the PSD and Rookie draft...
A loss 2nite and we have pic 3, and 2nd pic for every subsequent round, plus 2nd pic in the PSD and rookie draft...well this yrs rookie draft GC have the first 5 pics then in order of ladder position, currently we have pic 7....
Well as we enter the last game 2nite does anyone feel that a win is necessary 2nite, im going to lock the voting just prior to the game with draft pics ahead of late season wins, so im just curious what people are thinking for 2nites game, hoping for a win and feel happy to end the season or a loss and be in a stronger position, draft order wise, not only in the ND but PSD and rookie draft too....
Current Voting:
Draft pics (inc priority pic) 97 (56.4%)
Late Season Wins 75 (43.6%)
Total Voters: 172
Current Voting:
Draft pics (inc priority pic) 97 (56.4%)
Late Season Wins 75 (43.6%)
Total Voters: 172
I voted to loose. I'll be happier with Pick 3 and PSD, Rookie 2 etc
That said I'm happy to win on two conditions;
1) The players are crapping themselves now they know Harwick will be watching with an eagle eye
2) Thomson dominates the clearances ;D
Otherwise a competitive loss with Thomson best on ground will suit me. ;D
That said I'm happy to win on two conditions;
1) The players are crapping themselves now they know Harwick will be watching with an eagle eye
2) Thomson dominates the clearances ;D
Otherwise a competitive loss with Thomson best on ground will suit me. ;D
