The Pros and Cons of Tanking (Merged)

[Forever Hoping]

Re: Anti-Tankers i want a response

One simple question. I don't want your boring theories about winning culture and all that crap either. Would you rather beat Essendon, Melbourne and West Coast in 3 meaningless games or take Cotchin in the draft??? That is what we have given up this year. Had we played our cards right, Scully was ours.

Far too simplistic and doesn't stnd up under scrutiny. What I would love the RFC to achieve is to develop to be organisation that has a long tem vision, a plan to get there and is successful in doing so. You can do that without a plethora of early picks. Geelong comes to mind and I know they got Ablett for the equivalent of a first round pick but other than that they have built their list with just one Top 10 pick in the last 10 years.

Get over it and be open minded to a different way of thinking

 

[Teckor]

Re: Anti-Tankers i want a response

While a 2nd round PP would be nice - we are only talking about a pick 20 v's Melb & WCE who have a huge incentive by obtaining PP's 1 & 2 ...... At the moment Melb. & WCE look like getting picks 1, 2, 3 & 4.....

Since we are still to play these 2 sides the odds of getting a PP were remote anyway....

So what to you do..? Throw matches with a chance but no guarantee of an extra pick....? Even playing/coaching terribly could still easily give us a couple of wins and we miss out anyway.... Or just play younger players & let them learn the game - which is what is being done....

One other thing about the players putting an effort in and especially if the 'fringe' players play well, is that it MIGHT attract some interest at trading time instead of no interest at all..... Maybe we can get an upgraded draft pick/s etc at trading time which would give us a similar result to just tanking for the PP.... e.g. JM plays well for the rest of the season & we were able to offload him for an upgraded pick.... Or Patterson etc.... Or a Brown plays well towards the end of the year and attracts interest at trading time from a top 8 side looking to top-up on an experienced forward.....

 

[dimmauchump]

Re: Anti-Tankers i want a response

While a 2nd round PP would be nice - we are only talking about a pick 20 v's Melb & WCE who have a huge incentive by obtaining PP's 1 & 2 ...... At the moment Melb. & WCE look like getting picks 1, 2, 3 & 4.....

Since we are still to play these 2 sides the odds of getting a PP were remote anyway....

So what to you do..? Throw matches with a chance but no guarantee of an extra pick....? Even playing/coaching terribly could still easily give us a couple of wins and we miss out anyway.... Or just play younger players & let them learn the game - which is what is being done....

One other thing about the players putting an effort in and especially if the 'fringe' players play well, is that it MIGHT attract some interest at trading time instead of no interest at all..... Maybe we can get an upgraded draft pick/s etc at trading time which would give us a similar result to just tanking for the PP.... e.g. JM plays well for the rest of the season & we were able to offload him for an upgraded pick.... Or Patterson etc.... Or a Brown plays well towards the end of the year and attracts interest at trading time from a top 8 side looking to top-up on an experienced forward.....

Reality is we don't have anyone that we are willing to part that would land us a 2nd Round Pick. We could have off loaded Schulz for a 2nd rounder but once again decided to keep him and how great has that turned out. Even someone like Tuck would get you a 3rd rounder at best.

 

[Teckor]

Re: Anti-Tankers i want a response

Reality is we don't have anyone that we are willing to part that would land us a 2nd Round Pick. We could have off loaded Schulz for a 2nd rounder but once again decided to keep him and how great has that turned out. Even someone like Tuck would get you a 3rd rounder at best.

Yeah, there is not much to offer.... But we might be able to offer a player and later pick for a higher pick etc.....

 

[WesternTiger]

Re: Anti-Tankers i want a response

Reality is we don't have anyone that we are willing to part that would land us a 2nd Round Pick. We could have off loaded Schulz for a 2nd rounder but once again decided to keep him and how great has that turned out. Even someone like Tuck would get you a 3rd rounder at best.

And who made that decision? TW and Miller.

 

[borninbridgeroad]

Re: Anti-Tankers i want a response

No tiges supporter who was at the game yesterday could be pro tank.
Go to the games, scream for our kids.... and get on the tiggy train...coz there's light at the end of this long tunnel brothers and sisters.

 

[U2Tigers]

Re: Anti-Tankers i want a response

One simple question. I don't want your boring theories about winning culture and all that crap either. Would you rather beat Essendon, Melbourne and West Coast in 3 meaningless games or take Cotchin in the draft??? That is what we have given up this year. Had we played our cards right, Scully was ours.

And we don't really want to hear your theories of having to have priority picks year in and year out as its the only way to get a good kid ( LOL at our history at it)

rather listen to those saying we should chase a winning culture - makes a whole lot more sense to me, and tghe main thing.

Its a way lot more enjoyable.

TANKINGS over lets enjoy the wins.

 

[YinnarTiger]

Re: Anti-Tankers i want a response

I was in standing room among a bunch of Essendon supporters during the third quarter when we were about 3 goals up. One of them said to his mate "Don't worry Richmond can't afford to win this" and proceeded to explain how the PP system worked. I turned around and gave him a spray about supporting a team with final 8 hopes relying on us to lie down. When we got that last goal which I reckoned was the sealer, I turned around and gave it to them again and they slunk "to beat the rush". Boy was I nervous 5 minutes later, half expecting them to come back and give a bit to me when the lead got down to 5 points.

Victoria dulcis est.

 

[TOT70]

Re: Anti-Tankers i want a response

When we got that last goal which I reckoned was the sealer, I turned around and gave it to them again and they slunk "to beat the rush". Boy was I nervous 5 minutes later, half expecting them to come back and give a bit to me when the lead got down to 5 points.

Victoria dulcis est.

Ya gotta love that about Essendon supporters. They love that early train.

Do they not understand how Connex works? There hasn't been an early train in Melbourne for ten years.

 

[CarnTheTiges]

Re: Anti-Tankers i want a response

:clap

I don't run the club so I am hardly likely to beat myself up over a lost opportunity, if that is what this really is, at the draft table. I'm a passionate supporter, I go to as many games as I can, I have an enormous personal investment in RFC, I discuss footy all week long and I'll take the bragging rights, whenever and wherever I can get them. My only beef is that I haven't had enough bragging rights ofr this year.

Don't be so Catholic. Learn to feel good when you win and bad when you lose. That is the natural order of things. Feeling guilt when you should be feeling good is a concept invented by corrupt Medieval Popes who didn't practice what they preached anyway.

If Melbourne and West Coast want to tank to pick up this player and that player, then good luck to them. Let the club go to the Draft Table in November and try to do the very best that they can.

I would rather be a Richmond supporter today after having watched Reivoldt, Edwards and Cotchin come of age yesterday than a West Coast supporter having watched his team ice the clock in the dying moments to ensure they lost. Deliberately losing games is wrong.

Some fans are hell-bent on rewarding dodgy behaviours. Give it a rest.

Go to the next Tigers game and try to enjoy it. You'll feel less bitter and twisted.

:clap well said TOT

 

[Liverpool]

Re: Anti-Tankers i want a response

No tiges supporter who was at the game yesterday could be pro tank.
Go to the games, scream for our kids.... and get on the tiggy train...coz there's light at the end of this long tunnel brothers and sisters.

I'm the same as you mate.

There is no way people who are so bent on tanking go to games.....to see the kids around dressed in their Tiger gear cheering and giving it to their Bomber brother/sister/cousin....or the young players like Post, Vickery, Cotchin who have hardly played in any winning teams celebrating together as they walk off the ground.

They start getting a taste for wins and all of a sudden we're stringing a few together.

And when we do turn the corner...it will just happen.

Who would have thought St.Kilda would be 17-0 at the start of the season?
Who would have thought Hawthorn would have won the flag last season?
Who would have thought Geelong would win 56 of 58 matches including a Premiership after having their coach go through a review, losing to the Kangas at Kardinia Park, and being 2-3 after Round 5, 2007?
Who would have thought in 2001....Brisbane, who had lost to us and then Carlton by 12 goals would go on to win the flag that year and the following 2 flags making it a 3-peat?

 

[RoyceHart]

Re: Anti-Tankers i want a response

Its a sad state of affairs if I (as a life long Richmond supporter) have to explain why I feel happy after a win.

 

[Spirit of Jack]

Re: Anti-Tankers i want a response

I'm the same as you mate.

There is no way people who are so bent on tanking go to games.....to see the kids around dressed in their Tiger gear cheering and giving it to their Bomber brother/sister/cousin....or the young players like Post, Vickery, Cotchin who have hardly played in any winning teams celebrating together as they walk off the ground.

You are wrong there. Pro tanking doesnt make you less of a supporter.

They start getting a taste for wins and all of a sudden we're stringing a few together.

And when we do turn the corner...it will just happen.

Who would have thought St.Kilda would be 17-0 at the start of the season?
Who would have thought Hawthorn would have won the flag last season?
Who would have thought Geelong would win 56 of 58 matches including a Premiership after having their coach go through a review, losing to the Kangas at Kardinia Park, and being 2-3 after Round 5, 2007?
Who would have thought in 2001....Brisbane, who had lost to us and then Carlton by 12 goals would go on to win the flag that year and the following 2 flags making it a 3-peat?

Who would of thought the powerhouse club that were runners up in 1982 would be a rabble for the next 27 years seeing a total of two finals campaigns?

But maybe you're right, string a few wins together and ...it will just happen! Actually come to think of it, that is the sum total of our strategic planning over the past 27 years.

 

[dimmauchump]

Re: Anti-Tankers i want a response

You are wrong there. Pro tanking doesnt make you less of a supporter.

Who would of thought the powerhouse club that were runners up in 1982 would be a rabble for the next 27 years seeing a total of two finals campaigns?

But maybe you're right, string a few wins together and ...it will just happen! Actually come to think of it, that is the sum total of our strategic planning over the past 27 years.

Stop making sense maverick. Just remember when we are holding up that premiership next year, we can look back at beating a side with 15 fit players on the park and saying that was the game that turned things around for this club after 27 years of mediocrity. Leave those fools West Coast and Melbourne do everything to rebuild their list proper. :

 

[Liverpool]

Re: Anti-Tankers i want a response

But maybe you're right, string a few wins together and ...it will just happen! Actually come to think of it, that is the sum total of our strategic planning over the past 27 years.

After Geelong were 2-3....and Brisbane got pumped by 70+ points to Carlton....both those teams were hoping just to get a couple of wins.
I'm sure some of their fans were even talking of draft picks and delisting players....and TANKING.

But then something clicked and away they went....

Heck...who would have thought after 5 rounds this season that the words "Tambling" and "best and fairest" would be mentioned in the same sentence?

Things can change.....

 

[dimmauchump]

Re: Anti-Tankers i want a response

After Geelong were 2-3....and Brisbane got pumped by 70+ points to Carlton....both those teams were hoping just to get a couple of wins.
I'm sure some of their fans were even talking of draft picks and delisting players....and TANKING.

But then something clicked and away they went....

Heck...who would have thought after 5 rounds this season that the words "Tambling" and "best and fairest" would be mentioned in the same sentence?

Things can change.....

I would agree with your argument if we were also 2-3, but the reality is we are playing for nothing!!! That is the difference. Whether we win another 5 games it means nadda. Where as if we don't we at least end up with some fantastic picks and the chance to start a proper list rebuild.

 

[Liverpool]

Re: Anti-Tankers i want a response

I would agree with your argument if we were also 2-3, but the reality is we are playing for nothing!!! That is the difference. Whether we win another 5 games it means nadda. Where as if we don't we at least end up with some fantastic picks and the chance to start a proper list rebuild.

WE AREN'T!!!!!!!

If you think we have the off-field personnel and infrastructure in place to recruit and develop young players....then who gives a fat rat's clacker if we have pick-1, pick-2, or pick-6 in the draft?
Its still a lottery and most players in the top-10 are very good juniors anyways.

And winning games in a row with the kids we already have....that to me is worth far more than some draft pick which may or may not eventuate into an elite player.

Like I said...even Carlton with all their number-1 picks wouldn't win a bloody game if they got rid of their 38th draft pick from 1998.

 

[Baloo]

Re: Anti-Tankers i want a response

Does not being a pro-tanker make me an anti-tanker ? Is this a GWB "You're with us or against us" type choice ?

I never wanted a deliberate tank. I wanted the kids to be played. I wanted our young guys to be given the challenge to show us what they can do.

If we lost every game, so be it, at least blooded the kids.

But if these same kids, who most say are duds, starting winning games of football, then I am all for it.

So, does that make me an anti-tanker ? Or just a level headed supporter who is rapt to see our kids fight and fight and win ?

 

[Liverpool]

Re: Anti-Tankers i want a response

Does not being a pro-tanker make me an anti-tanker ? Is this a GWB "You're with us or against us" type choice ?
I never wanted a deliberate tank. I wanted the kids to be played. I wanted our young guys to be given the challenge to show us what they can do.
If we lost every game, so be it, at least blooded the kids.
But if these same kids, who most say are duds, starting winning games of football, then I am all for it.
So, does that make me an anti-tanker ? Or just a level headed supporter who is wrapped to see our kids fight and fight and win ?

Same as me mate! :clap :clap :clap

At last some sense from a SUPPORTER.

 

[kotzac]

Re: Anti-Tankers i want a response

im no expert. To think some guy (scully) is all we need to make the finals next year is ludicrious. Lets start winning and put some confidence in our players.