The Blair "Which?" Project | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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The Blair "Which?" Project

1 - Can you show us the value of rucks (in trade value of previous trade periods) of players that weren't number 1 rucks at their current club. Show us how we were not compensated adequately.

2 - The point you make about "broke up plans to have a back up for Nank" is incorrect. As General has said we have Naismith (who we got for free) and Samson on our list. How many rucks do you expect to be on our list outside of the Cat B's?
I give it to you MrP.

You are extremely patient.
 
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That's not what I said.
We didn't trade Soldo the year before....because we wanted him and had leverage to keep him. This year, coming into his last year of a contract, we didn't have as much leverage if we kept him.

I'm beginning to question if you're reading things properly.
Naismith....Sampson.....back-ups to Nank.....

Too tired to continue this conversation.
Agree we had more leverage in 2023, but both parties had entered the contract and given undertakings in respect of both 23 and 24.
Reading and understanding perfectly well thanks.
Sampson > Naismith > Soldo > Nank.
I know you didn't reference the other players mentioned but I did so to try and illustrate other instances where we are relying on contracts to protect team continuity, performance etc.
And Treloar as an example of what clubs and Mcquire, were able to get away with when the AFL permits a club to ignore its contractual obligations.
 
1 - Can you show us the value of rucks (in trade value of previous trade periods) of players that weren't number 1 rucks at their current club. Show us how we were not compensated adequately.

2 - The point you make about "broke up plans to have a back up for Nank" is incorrect. As General has said we have Naismith (who we got for free) and Samson on our list. How many rucks do you expect to be on our list outside of the Cat B's?
1 The value of ruckman can't be assessed like weighing gold. Grundie on a top a wage at Melbourne was over paid there, but valued at Sydney because of their shortage, with his departure initiated by Melbourne.
2 'broke up plans' means broke up the plan to continue to use Soldo, the preferred option. Soldo worth more in Adelaide than at Richmond but does that mean we should approve his request to release him from his contract, when it was continuing to work as we had hoped.
 
1 The value of ruckman can't be assessed like weighing gold. Grundie on a top a wage at Melbourne was over paid there, but valued at Sydney because of their shortage, with his departure initiated by Melbourne.
2 'broke up plans' means broke up the plan to continue to use Soldo, the preferred option. Soldo worth more in Adelaide than at Richmond but does that mean we should approve his request to release him from his contract, when it was continuing to work as we had hoped.

Not sure if you are deliberately trying to be silly about this, made your bed and you are just going to keep fighting it. I asked for a list which you didn't provide so here you go.

Grundy - Pick 46 + Future 2nd (Sydney - probs mid 30's)
Sweet - Pick 50
Fullarton - Pick 47
Jackson - Pick 13, F 1st Freo (expected around 12 - got better), F 2nd (expected around 30 - got better), less Picks 44 and 67
Grundy - Pick 27
Lobb - Pick 30 and F 2nd (Dogs - expected around 35)
Fort - Pick 50 and F 3rd (Brisbanes - expected around 52) less Pick 41
Ceglar - F 3rd (Brisbanes - expected around 52) less F 4th (Hawks - expected around 60)
Ladhams - Pick 12 and F 3rd (Swans - expected around 50) less Pick 16
Max Lynch - F 3rd (Hawks - expected around 40) and F 3rd (Brisbane - expected around 50), less F 3rd (Freo - expected around 45) and F 4th (GCS - expected around 60)

Thats the ruck trades over the last 3 years. If you want to throw forwards in we can, like Finlayson for a F 3rd, Chol etc, but the scenario isn't very different. You have 3 tiers.

1 - The star ruckman (ie. those that will be in the best in the comp ) - Grundy and Jackson
2 - The next tier down - Ladhams / Lobb
3 - The break glass in emergency types - Sweet, Fullarton, Fort, Ceglar, Lynch

Note group 3 are traded for next to nothing. Group 2, we got that or better and Group 1 - if you think Soldo is in that group you are delusional.

Soldo - Pick 41, F 2nd (Freo - probs around 30), F 4th (Ports - probs around 65)

Tell me how that isnt fair compensation??

I'll put it in a different way.

Whats better?

Option 1 - Soldo and a 2024 3rd (something around 45-50)
Or
Option 2 - Naismith, Fawcett, 2024 2nd (something around 30) and a 2024 4th (something around 65)
 
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i know 3 flags gets you a hell of a lot of credits, but im surprised no heat has come onto Blair from the masses. the list looks in an awefull mess.
 
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Not sure if you are deliberately trying to be silly about this, made your bed and you are just going to keep fighting it. I asked for a list which you didn't provide so here you go.

Grundy - Pick 46 + Future 2nd (Sydney - probs mid 30's)
Sweet - Pick 50
Fullarton - Pick 47
Jackson - Pick 13, F 1st Freo (expected around 12 - got better), F 2nd (expected around 30 - got better), less Picks 44 and 67
Grundy - Pick 27
Lobb - Pick 30 and F 2nd (Dogs - expected around 35)
Fort - Pick 50 and F 3rd (Brisbanes - expected around 52) less Pick 41
Ceglar - F 3rd (Brisbanes - expected around 52) less F 4th (Hawks - expected around 60)
Ladhams - Pick 12 and F 3rd (Swans - expected around 50) less Pick 16
Max Lynch - F 3rd (Hawks - expected around 40) and F 3rd (Brisbane - expected around 50), less F 3rd (Freo - expected around 45) and F 4th (GCS - expected around 60)

Thats the ruck trades over the last 3 years. If you want to throw forwards in we can, like Finlayson for a F 3rd, Chol etc, but the scenario isn't very different. You have 3 tiers.

1 - The star ruckman (ie. those that will be in the best in the comp ) - Grundy and Jackson
2 - The next tier down - Ladhams / Lobb
3 - The break glass in emergency types - Sweet, Fullarton, Fort, Ceglar, Lynch

Note group 3 are traded for next to nothing. Group 2, we got that or better and Group 1 - if you think Soldo is in that group you are delusional.

Soldo - Pick 41, F 2nd (Freo - probs around 30), F 4th (Ports - probs around 65)

Tell me how that isnt fair compensation??

I'll put it in a different way.

Whats better?

Option 1 - Soldo and a 2024 3rd (something around 45-50)
Or
Option 2 - Naismith, Fawcett, 2024 2nd (something around 30) and a 2024 4th (something around 65)
What a …. You can’t put some historical statistical analysis on ruckman and come up with an equation which is relevant.
Each case depends on its own facts.
Just like buying a house.
You and your stats are just not relevant to the question of value.
 
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What a …. You can’t put some historical statistical analysis on ruckman and come up with an equation which is relevant.
Each case depends on its own facts.
Just like buying a house.
You and your stats are just not relevant to the question of value.


Hahahahaha right. So market value has no relevance in your world!! Weird perspective. How do you value anything then unless you understand what the market is paying?
 
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When you write a post which starts 'I asked for a list which you didn't provide so here you go', And then you provide a very detailed answer to your own question, you sound like a rather frustrated school teacher.

I am not going to go over this again, believe what you please, accept what you like or don't. I really don't care.
 
It's the bye and the middle of the season, so while we pause and get locked and loaded for the rest of 2011 let's see who PRE's internet gurus think our opposition analyst might be looking to lure to Punt Road for 2012.

The rules of the game are that the player you mention must be out of favour at his present AFL club or burning it up at a lower comp like the VFL. Maybe there's a Victorian who wants to come home.

Judging from last year we won't offer our first two draft selections, but a Collins for Grigg trade could eventuate so you can list for trade anyone whose non-selection in the Richmond team could be described as a farce.

Let the game begin...
This is the thread's OP, and we've come full circle. It's the bye and we're in the same region of the ladder but without Jack, Cotch, Shed, young Dusty etc. A new(ish) first-time coach too.

What's Blair gonna do? Let the game recommence.
 
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We won't be attracting free agents unless we offer duds big money.
The club needs to be smart. We can rebuild by talking to kids not getting a game at GC or GWS..
With Gibcus Balta Lynch Prestia Tarranto and Ross all available we are a competitive football team.
We need to find Hollands types, Acres Types,
Bailey Dale might be too old now.
What has happened to Omeara. I forgot he went to freo??
 
What a …. You can’t put some historical statistical analysis on ruckman and come up with an equation which is relevant.
Each case depends on its own facts.
Just like buying a house.
You and your stats are just not relevant to the question of value.


He gave you the facts.

Time to wave the while flag bro
 
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We won't be attracting free agents unless we offer duds big money.
The club needs to be smart. We can rebuild by talking to kids not getting a game at GC or GWS..
With Gibcus Balta Lynch Prestia Tarranto and Ross all available we are a competitive football team.
We need to find Hollands types, Acres Types,
Bailey Dale might be too old now.
What has happened to Omeara. I forgot he went to freo??
I reckon Leek Aleer could be a very god player if given a chance...only played yesterday become Sam Taylor was out. Taylor, Buckley and Idon are set for years at GWS so he would be a Nank/Grigg/Houli type addition.
 
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We won't be attracting free agents unless we offer duds big money.
The club needs to be smart. We can rebuild by talking to kids not getting a game at GC or GWS..
With Gibcus Balta Lynch Prestia Tarranto and Ross all available we are a competitive football team.
We need to find Hollands types, Acres Types,
Bailey Dale might be too old now.
What has happened to Omeara. I forgot he went to freo??
We have get our money balls back out
 
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Wouldn't be trading for any experienced players. Need to hit the draft. If there's a free agent that could add experience I would do that to help with minimum TPP while the young guys develop. Free agents that I would be talking too:

Hugh Mcluggage
Cam Zurhaar
Ben Ainsworth
Brandon Parfitt
Isaac Cumming
Ollie Florent
 
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Looking at the types Blair got in from elsewhere...
Most of the players were targeted because they weren't getting games, injured but had potential, or targeted trades/free Agents to enhance/extend the dynasty.
B Miller
T Hislop
Houli
Grigg
I Maric
C Knights
T Chaplin
A Moore
A Maric
S Morris
A Edwards
R Pettard
S Lonergan
Sampson
T Banfield
A Miles
M Thomas
T Hunt
J Townsend
C Yarran
A Marcon
D Prestia
T Nankervis
J Caddy
T Lynch
M Weller
M Parker
R Tarrant
T Taranto
J hopper
 
When you write a post which starts 'I asked for a list which you didn't provide so here you go', And then you provide a very detailed answer to your own question, you sound like a rather frustrated school teacher.

I am not going to go over this again, believe what you please, accept what you like or don't. I really don't care.

Dude, I asked you what the market value for a ruckman that wasn't playing was - you didn't give me it as it wouldn't back up your argument, you rambled on about Grundy who Soldo isn't in his league, so guess what, I gave you the list as it shows we got good value for Soldo.

We also got Naismith in to replace Soldo, and as a 2nd ruck that won't be playing every wekk thats fine, its a moneyball option.

Again what would you prefer.

Option 1 - Soldo and a 2024 3rd (something around 45-50)
Or
Option 2 - Naismith, Fawcett, 2024 2nd (something around 30) and a 2024 4th (something around 65)

I'm taking Option 2 every single day of the week. It doesn't weaken us at all (despite what you are saying) and gives us far more options to add to the squad / trade up the draft.

But the 1 thing you seem to consistently forget is SOLDO ASKED TO LEAVE, and it was the 2nd year he'd done that. We don't hold players against their will (thats what crap clubs do). We want players to play for us, as they know we will be in their corner no matter what the scenario is, if that means we trade them, then we get market value for them. I think the only 1 we really got screwed on in recent years was probably the Butler one (oh and Ellis but that wasn't up to us, the AFL reamed us because they could with compo).

BTW - at least I've provided some facts to my opinion, what have you given? Nothing, just stated some words that we didn't get good / market value but with nothing but random words.
 
M
Looking at the types Blair got in from elsewhere...
Most of the players were targeted because they weren't getting games, injured but had potential, or targeted trades/free Agents to enhance/extend the dynasty.
B Miller
T Hislop
Houli
Grigg
I Maric
C Knights
T Chaplin
A Moore
A Maric
S Morris
A Edwards
R Pettard
S Lonergan
Sampson
T Banfield
A Miles
M Thomas
T Hunt
J Townsend
C Yarran
A Marcon
D Prestia
T Nankervis
J Caddy
T Lynch
M Weller
M Parker
R Tarrant
T Taranto
J hopper
Miller was drafted in 2016, the same year I think as Balta. Steve Morris also drafted from West Adelaide?