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IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.
Talking Politics
- Thread starter Legends of 2017
- Start date
Liverpool said:
You must be so obviously in tune with the history of workplace relations in this country that you say this.
Let these AWAs take us back to the time when the bosses ruled and the worker had no say - lets keep those workers in their place and we will use them as an economic tool to suit our corporate growth. When times are good we will make millions in profits and distribute little to the worker and when times are tough then let the worker fend for himself on the dole queues - oh thats right I forgot we have abolished welfare - and medicare has gone private so only those that can afford it will get medical treatment. Lets stride towards being like the USA - the greatest democracy on earth that money can buy - where the rich get richer and the rest can go please themselves.
You cannot be a product from the Australia I grew up in - where a fair go was paramount for both bosses and workers - now it is greed and me me me! (Admittedly from both sides)
What I cannot understand is that you are a member of a football club that has its roots in working class Australia - surely you would be more at home with the silver tails of Carlton or the rich and powerful of Collingwood.
That last one was under the belt I apologise......take care mate - but be careful those big bad Unions and their ALP political wing are out there........
remote ,unions are an outdated dinosaur that bleed money off working class ppl. tell me why should anyone be entitled to 17% on thier annual leave?? its beyond me.show me more than one case were someone is worse off under an a w a ?? also i thought we lived in a free country ,so what gives a union the right to force me to join and pay fees just so i can ply my trade on a construction site ??unions are just bloodsucking money draining *smile* politicians by another name .its obvious to me remote that you have never had to pay wages or workcover premiums or *smile* holiday entitlements.remote if you ever have the joy of putting in a tender for work on a union construction site its pretty simple you come up with the figure it should cost to do the work then you multiply that by 5 .after all its only usally taxpayer monies that are being spent.do you get it ?everybody pays for the unions bloated and outdated work practices.now thats australian aint it :hihi
ssstone said:
Far better to make sure the big end of town makes their profits - at the expense of the working man/woman - far better to divide Australia into the haves and the have nots just like the USA.
Unions are not perfect - BUT - nor are employer groups who suck every last bit out of a worker at a minimum cost to the business.
It is all about distribution of wealth - and it appears to me you guys like to see the wealth stacked into the top 3% of our population and the rest can go get *smile*.
I prefer to see everybody get a fair go and those extra rewards for the worker enabled a better distribution of wealth.
And to answer your question I have 22 staff I pay them above award rates plus quarterly bonuses for their productivity plus an annual bonus at Christmas to tie them over the holidays - I have had only 2 employees leave in the time I owned the busness - since 2002. All this done with union consent and common law contracts. I feel that AWAs are a way to manipulate workers (the Libs call it flexibility) to the benefit of Company profits - rather than look after your personnel with common law contracts or union agreed wages and conditions - just keep beating them into submission with *smile* poor AWAs.
ssstone go back to you bar and sip your drink and think you are an entreprenuer - when in truth you and I as business people are middle class people being constantly manipulated by the big end of town - and - we are just like the worker who gets manipulated by different method to us - its called AWAs.
Time for you and me to wake up - as small business men that is exactly what we are - small. The Libs cater for the bigger boys - ie. Murdoch, Packer, Stokes, Williams
:rofl :rofl so the union gave consent 4 you to give your employees a bonus ???good for you to get thier permission to reward a loyal workforce !!!remote last post you accused me of being a capilist supporting a working class footy team,now apparently im middle class?? make up your mind.what you have missed is that my angst against your beloved unions is that they are just like politicians. just another name is all.W.A.F.T.A.M.and you have failed to answer any of the questions i asked in my last post.but i will ask another anyway, my best employee deserves all the bonus,s that i pay him.so why should that be applied to his coworker whom like paddy bowden is a downhill skier ??? oh that,s right lets gear it to the lowest common denomanator. now your and the union theory smacks of communism to me ?its good to see that socialism is alive and well in aust. :hihiRemoteTiger said:
ssstone said:
SSStone,
You beat me to it....you're spot on. :clap
Remote,
This "distribution of wealth" is exactly something I do NOT want in this country, and your last post is red-rag waving in all its communist glory.
Maybe I am wrong, or maybe I just read your post the wrong way....but it sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder for rich people out there who have done well for themselves (or inherited from their rich parents), and think that they should be paying more taxes and distributing their wealth, so everyone 'gets a fair go'.
What a load of *smile*!
If someone like Lindsay Fox, gets off his arse when he was young in the 1950's, and buys one truck to cart soft-drink around the ciy, and proceeds to use his money wisely and today, he is a multi-millionaire, with his company "Linfox"....then full marks to him, I say!
Why should he be taxed to the neck, to keep bludgers and no-hopers, drifting along in their non-ambitious little world, through your "fair go for all and distribution of wealth" ideology?
To me, you get what you work for (or if you are lucky enough to inherit a fortune, then good on you!)....and if the Murdochs, Packers, Foxs, and the like, invest their money wisely, and make even more money, then good on them, I say.
That is what free enterprise is all about.
P.S:
Remote,
On your post (#784), you have me quoting this:
lets all be poor me/need 17%loading?holidayentitilments?turn up allowances,union picnic day lovin socilist live off's ??
I never said this at all.
Please don't use the 'quotonator', to put words in my mouth, that I never said.... thank you.
I'm with ya remote. Its a losing battle though, a bit cerebrally wanting.
It never ceases to amaze me that people take issue with leave loading, the views of SSStoney and liverpool, and Hnason had the same view, are apparently based on the 17% appearing out of thin air. It doesn't. Its built in to a salary. Do you think employers get to xMas and go 'geez, I wasn't expecting all this loading'. Its like saying 'I don't know why everyone in Australia isn't on 3% a year less than they are now'. If someone said that people would think they were an irrational loon, well, i suppose if the cap fits.
It never ceases to amaze me that people take issue with leave loading, the views of SSStoney and liverpool, and Hnason had the same view, are apparently based on the 17% appearing out of thin air. It doesn't. Its built in to a salary. Do you think employers get to xMas and go 'geez, I wasn't expecting all this loading'. Its like saying 'I don't know why everyone in Australia isn't on 3% a year less than they are now'. If someone said that people would think they were an irrational loon, well, i suppose if the cap fits.
Liverpool said:
I'll just pick 2 issues out of this post, to keep it simple.
first, by using the Fox example, who is a self-made man, is deserving of his wealth. Your implication is that non-self-made rich people, who are the overwhelming majority of rich people, are not deserving of their wealth. You can't have it both ways, as long as we're clear.
second, how much money does one person really need? I'm not against someone being comfortably wealthy, its the obscene wealth that gets me. Tax 'em to the eyeballs as far as I'm concerned, they'' still have far more than they'll ever need.
Can anybody hear a PORK BARREL rolling down their street - sure sounds like one.
Must be wonderful to gain so much money from us txpayers through tax creep over two years then give it back to us in Tax cuts during an election year - the way Johnny Bonsai plays Santa Claus every three years is pure magic.
But all he is doing is giving us our money back that the system he keeps tinkering with has overtaxed us.
He has never introduced a true overhaul of the INCOME TAX system - just added a GST after taking away much smaller taxes like sales tax etc.
And the Universities are getting a real big look in - $5b endowment fund for capital expenditure which will yield $300m in revenue per annum for Australia's 38 Universities. The Department of Education has identified $1.5b is needed right now for these very same universities to maintain their capital assets - so we're a mere $1.2b short and will continue to be so for the next 5 years. Another bandaid for Higher Education which is now less than a 0.6% spend of GDP down from 1% when he took office 11 years ago. Our education systems are going backwards - so much for our kids futures let alone the country's.
Do like him increasing the jobs in Canberra though - an extra 5,000 public servants guaranteed - that is excellent for our region and must please those dye hard conservatives who believe in smaller Government and smaller Public Service (We now have the largest Federal Public Service in the history of Australia)
Now news on climate change - but rest assured come 3 months before the election he will roll out about $40b worth of promises - after all he is "a Prime Minister who listens" - his own words.
Don't ya just love the way he buys our votes every 3 years?
Must be wonderful to gain so much money from us txpayers through tax creep over two years then give it back to us in Tax cuts during an election year - the way Johnny Bonsai plays Santa Claus every three years is pure magic.
But all he is doing is giving us our money back that the system he keeps tinkering with has overtaxed us.
He has never introduced a true overhaul of the INCOME TAX system - just added a GST after taking away much smaller taxes like sales tax etc.
And the Universities are getting a real big look in - $5b endowment fund for capital expenditure which will yield $300m in revenue per annum for Australia's 38 Universities. The Department of Education has identified $1.5b is needed right now for these very same universities to maintain their capital assets - so we're a mere $1.2b short and will continue to be so for the next 5 years. Another bandaid for Higher Education which is now less than a 0.6% spend of GDP down from 1% when he took office 11 years ago. Our education systems are going backwards - so much for our kids futures let alone the country's.
Do like him increasing the jobs in Canberra though - an extra 5,000 public servants guaranteed - that is excellent for our region and must please those dye hard conservatives who believe in smaller Government and smaller Public Service (We now have the largest Federal Public Service in the history of Australia)
Now news on climate change - but rest assured come 3 months before the election he will roll out about $40b worth of promises - after all he is "a Prime Minister who listens" - his own words.
Don't ya just love the way he buys our votes every 3 years?
RemoteTiger said:
With all due respect RT as your opinion is highly valued but what do you expect them to do. Increase Taxes to lose votes?
Howard and Costello are good politicians and that is their profession. If only others were as good at their chosen profession.
jb03 said:
I would prefer them to invest in Australia through capital programs for our education systems, through infrastructure like roads, rail, airports, broadband, water resources, cheaper petrol etc. etc. when was the last great capital works completed by a government?
Instead of creating a "war chest" through storing the taxes from our over taxed incomes for 2 years and then buying votes in the 3rd year - like many Australians I do not mind paying my taxes if I can see it being used to build our infrastructure - but I do mind paying taxes only to have them re-imbursed in election year (besides I could have done with the money when I earnt it rather than getting it back now)
You forgot R & D Remote. When the mining boom slows down we are going to be in real trouble. (At least Bracks is OS developing some bio partnerships on the back of some interesting R & D here in Vic..... patches for diabetics; new, less invasive tests that pick up cardiac problems earlier for example.)
And the $700 tutor allowance for children in years 3, 5 & 7 experiencing difficulty, not new. Take up rate was 30% last time. Wouldn't it be better to put in back into schools? No wait, if you do that then you'll no longer be able to castigate teachers and people might notice you've been at it for over 10 years now and according to you nothing's improved in standards and start blaming you instead of the professionals doing the best they can on a shoestring in most areas.
And the $700 tutor allowance for children in years 3, 5 & 7 experiencing difficulty, not new. Take up rate was 30% last time. Wouldn't it be better to put in back into schools? No wait, if you do that then you'll no longer be able to castigate teachers and people might notice you've been at it for over 10 years now and according to you nothing's improved in standards and start blaming you instead of the professionals doing the best they can on a shoestring in most areas.
tigersnake said:
I think anyone who is rich...whether they made it themselves, like Lindsay Fox...or inherited it, like James Packer......are both deserving of their wealth.
If some people are born into rich families, then good on them....if they work hard, or come up with a great idea, that makes them squillions, then good on them too.
tigersnake said:
If people, through investing, or acquiring other companies, or from a large inheritance...become extremely wealthy...then good on them.
To me, all this "taxing rich people to the eyeballs"....and "distributing wealth" wreaks of jealousy, envy, and carrying a chip on one's shoulder.
It's quite pathetic actually.
Anduril said:
Bracks is overseas getting some signed photos of "The Terminator" to hang on his wall at home....thats about the extent of what Bracks is up to over there. ;D
Remember, this is the clown who thought it was a great idea to waste $$$ on changing the name Spencer Street Station, to Southern Cross Station....so we can't expect too much from his "business trips"
