Talking Politics

[RemoteTiger]

Amazing

Simply Amazing

Who would have thought it?

Now it all fits into place - this is why Little Johnny Howard (alias Honest John or Bonsai - a little Bush) was getting the royal treatment by all the Australian Media Barons. For all his Government's heinous mistakes the press and electronic media never ever - no not once - hammered him - he got the nickname Teflon for none of the *smile* stuck.

The last piece of the jigsaw puzzle finally fits into place.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/business/packer-gets-ready-to-buy/2006/10/17/1160850931721.html

http://www.theage.com.au/news/business/stokes-buys-stake-in-wan/2006/10/17/1160850931724.html

I know damn well that if Little Honest John - the mightiest Bonsai of them all - were going to put $4billion in my bank account - I would make sure all my journalists said he was the greatest Prime Minister ever......

I would also ensure that his opposition were painted in very poor terms - which would make Teflon John seem ever better!

And the rest of us followed like sheep

The power of the media - it certainly does have the ability to shape our thinking - for if you get told something often enough and long enough - you and I will believe it! Whether it is true or elsewise!

Lets hope that when the media barons achieve their objective with the lifting of restrictions on their industry that they might just start reporting the facts and not a slanted towards Honest John's version of the story. Maybe then we will get back to something that resembles a true democracy!..........

And I am a Liberal Voter through and through - so please don't label me an anti liberal - for I do believe in a free market economy but I also believe in our system of government - and this system under the gutter astuteness of Prime Minister John Howard has been eroded and damaged - hopefully not beyond repair.

 

[poppa x]

And I am a Liberal Voter through and through - so please don't label me an anti liberal - for I do believe in a free market economy but I also believe in our system of government - and this system under the gutter astuteness of Prime Minister John Howard has been eroded and damaged - hopefully not beyond repair.

Yeh sure.
And I'm a Labor voter who thinks Fat Kim is a disgrace to his office. :rofl

 

[an_oxford_man]

And I am a Liberal Voter through and through - so please don't label me an anti liberal - for I do believe in a free market economy but I also believe in our system of government - and this system under the gutter astuteness of Prime Minister John Howard has been eroded and damaged - hopefully not beyond repair.

Yeh sure.
And I'm a Labor voter who thinks Fat Kim is a disgrace to his office. :rofl

That's me.

 

[RemoteTiger]

And I am a Liberal Voter through and through - so please don't label me an anti liberal - for I do believe in a free market economy but I also believe in our system of government - and this system under the gutter astuteness of Prime Minister John Howard has been eroded and damaged - hopefully not beyond repair.

Yeh sure.
And I'm a Labor voter who thinks Fat Kim is a disgrace to his office. :rofl

Mate ya don't believe me - in my youth I joined the young libs - got disenchanted with the hollier than thou attitude - drifted towards the left particularly when I was in the conscription for Vietnam mess - thank Christ my marble didn't fall out - had a cousin whose did and when he came back he was mentally gone - I feel for all Viet vets - always buy 'em a beer always give 'em a hand (but for the grace of God there go I) - since then have been a swing voter - and - I do not like the way John Howard has damaged the Australian Version of the Westminster style of Government.

Anyway if we all really knew what was going on behind the scenes we would most likely want to change the people and the system....

 

[poppa x]

You're a liberala through and through (as claimed) and you've been a swing voter since Vietnam?   ??? WTF - get off the fence and come clean.  You're a lefty labor man.  No shame in that.  Just be open about it and don't pretend to be a Liberal hanging sh*t on Howard.

I too was p*ssed off by Vietnam and the draft and my marble didn't come out of the barrell.  The next election I had a choice of voting Liberal (pro-Vietnam) or for Labor's candidate who was a draft dodger who also admitted an allegiance to the Communist Party.  What a choice!  I didn't vote and haven't done so since.  No point encouraging the bastards.  But I'm honest enough to say my allegiances are to the right.

 

[RemoteTiger]

You're a liberala through and through (as claimed) and you've been a swing voter since Vietnam?   ??? WTF - get off the fence and come clean.  You're a lefty labor man.  No shame in that.  Just be open about it and don't pretend to be a Liberal hanging sh*t on Howard.

I too was p*ssed off by Vietnam and the draft and my marble didn't come out of the barrell.  The next election I had a choice of voting Liberal (pro-Vietnam) or for Labor's candidate who was a draft dodger who also admitted an allegiance to the Communist Party.  What a choice!  I didn't vote and haven't done so since.  No point encouraging the bastards.  But I'm honest enough to say my allegiances are to the right.

I lean to the right - have done all my life - but there have been times when the Labour party has been worthy of my vote. Because the coalition were a joke or were about to conscript me and my mates!

I have been a card carrying member of the Liberal Party and when I lived in Tamworth NSW I was a member of the National Party (no libs up there). I worked in the campaign that helped the Liberal Candidate John Haslem topple Kepple (Enderby) in the seat of Canberra in 1975. I have never been a member of any other political party. And am currenty not a member of any party.

As far as hanging *smile* on John Howard - worth a try but that is impossible - for he is made of teflon!

Right now I feel I am a swinging voter - but my fundemental philosophies are a tad right of centre - hence my stating that I am a liberal through and through - but you are right - not always!

 

[tigersnake]

I found this very interesting indeed. It a video about a bloke in Sydney who made his terrace environmentally self-sufficient, supplies his own water, power. Cost him $45K 10 years ago but he reckons you could do it for a third of that . Surprising thing to me was he doesn't see it as that big a deal, he's a normal kind of bloke who sees it as making perfect economic and environmental sense, and he doesn't think you have to make any sacrifices, he has a dishwasher etc.

puts Our governments coal and nuke fetish into perspective.

http://media.smh.com.au/?rid=22824&sy=smh&source=smh.com.au%2F&t=797S7P&player=wm7&rate=3511&flash=1&ie=1

 

[Rayzorwire]

You're a liberala through and through (as claimed) and you've been a swing voter since Vietnam? ??? WTF - get off the fence and come clean. You're a lefty labor man. No shame in that. Just be open about it and don't pretend to be a Liberal hanging sh*t on Howard.

I too was p*ssed off by Vietnam and the draft and my marble didn't come out of the barrell. The next election I had a choice of voting Liberal (pro-Vietnam) or for Labor's candidate who was a draft dodger who also admitted an allegiance to the Communist Party. What a choice! I didn't vote and haven't done so since. No point encouraging the bastards. But I'm honest enough to say my allegiances are to the right.

Your allegiance is to the right...yet you don't vote (which is illegal - you better hope Howard doesn't backdate your fines to the 70's or lock you up ).

You were pissed of by Vietnam and the draft, yet you couldn't vote for someone who you allege avoided the draft...someone who had enough guts and principle to politically stand against it.

You aren't interested enough or don't like political candidates enough to the extent where you'd rather break the law than vote for anyone, yet you apparently enjoy discussing politics and crusading for the right wing in internet forums.

You're one complex and strange person poppa.

 

[poppa x]

You were pissed of by Vietnam and the draft, yet you couldn't vote for someone who you allege avoided the draft...someone who had enough guts and principle to politically stand against it.

You aren't interested enough or don't like political candidates enough to the extent where you'd rather break the law than vote for anyone, yet you apparently enjoy discussing politics and crusading for the right wing in internet forums.

You're one complex and strange person poppa. 

Indeed.  So complex I agree with your support of Ray Hall. :spin

I didn't vote because the Draft Dodger was a commo.  My decision not to vote was further validated in 1975 when my preferred party, aided and abetted by the Queen, sacked the lawful government.  It didn't matter to me that Whitlam was the worst and most hopelessly incompetent PM ever.  He was still the elected PM and the Queen gave him the flick.

So when I read the crappola from the left and the generalisations they make about the right I have a good chuckle.  Some of us right wingers are actually more left than some of the lefties - on certain issues.

And this is why party based politics sucks.  Most people (except hard core party people) cannot be classified.  On some issues lefties lean right and vice versa.

For example.  I support Howards IR laws.  I reckon Nuclear Power is a great idea.  Seawater de-salination plants should be a priority. And Indigenous Aussies should lift their game.
So I'm a hard core right winger eh?
Wrong.
I also want a Republic.  But I want to keep the old flag.  It's time for our troops to come home from Iraq.

And every election year we have to choose between 2 parties who both share policies we like/detest.

here endeth the sermon.
oops - I'm a non practising atheist.

 

[Jools]

Actually, not voting isn't illegal. What is illegal is to not turn up to an electoral booth and get your name crossed off. You can write or not write whatever you want on your voting slip.

 

[newyorktiger]

Krusty the Clown in the last election I voted (local election). Don't have to vote anymore, and in fact am not allowed according to the AEC..

 

[Rayzorwire]

Indeed. So complex I agree with your support of Ray Hall. :spin

Well, that proves you're nuts right? :hihi

I didn't vote because the Draft Dodger was a commo.

You'd think if he was such a 'commo' he would have run for the ACP. During and following the Menzies era, anyone left of Mussolini (a bloke Menzies admired) was fair game to be branded a 'communist.'

I support Howards IR laws. I reckon Nuclear Power is a great idea. Seawater de-salination plants should be a priority. And Indigenous Aussies should lift their game.
So I'm a hard core right winger eh?

Nope, just badly informed IMO.

Nuclear power is an energy negative financial black hole (as evidenced by every past nuclear plant and all models designed since), a blind policy considering the remaining (insufficient) global and Australian reserves of uranium, and that's before we take safety into account.

Seawater desalination plants are massively energy intensive in a world of rapidly dwindling energy supplies, while what they return by way of fresh water can be recovered many times over by small reforms in water management. One medium size potato grower in WA (whose product is made into potato chips) uses more water than the WA desalination plant returns to the community at a massive cost to build and operate - cost which is borne by the taxpayer.

Personally, I don't believe the public should fund the enterprises of private farmers growing totally non-essential crops in unsuitable regions for that crop. There is enough water in Australia, it's just incredibly poorly managed.

I won't argue your other two assertions - they're somewhat subjective. The other two can be argued as very poor policy in cold hard facts...though you're not likely to see the facts in a political statement/debate or in the main stream media.

I also want a Republic. But I want to keep the old flag.

That puts you on the same political spectrum as Turnbull and co - not the left wing.

It's time for our troops to come home from Iraq.

They never should have gone.

And every election year we have to choose between 2 parties who both share policies we like/detest.

We? But you don't vote poppa. ;D

Seriously, I agree, both major parties have become far more centrist. Either one is prepared to cross the idealogical floor for votes and many examples confirm this phenomenon.

Actually, not voting isn't illegal. What is illegal is to not turn up to an electoral booth and get your name crossed off. You can write or not write whatever you want on your voting slip.

Correct, but casting an invalid donkey vote is still voting Jools.

 

[Rosy]

Actually, not voting isn't illegal. What is illegal is to not turn up to an electoral booth and get your name crossed off.

Spot on Jools. I know someone who goes in, gets their name crossed off and just walks straight out again.

 

[Rosy]

Is donating bikes (supposedly to help combat obesity) to 4,000 kids an election ploy or a good policy?

I'll go for option A. I'd be interested to know the comparisons of obesity in the poorer areas getting the bikes to kids in the more affluent areas who won't get them.

Would much prefer an overall education program on the importance of excersise, even walking, and perhaps schools implementing fitness sessions to benefit all kids.

 

[Anduril]

Every school I know and have worked in has a fitness program in their already overcrowded Curriculum. Many also have Bike Ed programs running as well. Sport and interschool sport cater for all ranges of ability.

Not sure what you can do to overcome obesity but I do know from experience (and research findings) that the best way to combat/educate starts in the home (and with peer groups).

And if the government were really serious about the problem they'd stop allowing advertising junk food in prime time and kids TV. But I've heard Abbott say they won't and we can all guess why.

 

[an_oxford_man]

Seriously, I agree, both major parties have become far more centrist. Either one is prepared to cross the idealogical floor for votes and many examples confirm this phenomenon.

That me be correct with the Labor Party, Rayzor. But I think the Liberal Party has stayed true to it's fascist foundations. White Australia and etc.

So many Australians are really well off these days, the Labor Party had to become more conservative in order to be able to compete... but the selfish bastards won't compromise. They want more for themselves and couldn't give a flying $#% about those who aren't as well off.

 

[mld]

Gypsy Jazz, the current Liberal party is far from its roots. What should be a free-market, low taxing, small government party is big taxing, big government and quite protectionist. While you have a jab at the Liberal party for its white-australia foundations, don't forget that the Labor party was also strongly opposed to immigration up until the Whitlam era and had a vested interest in white australia. You can even see the link now with their current opposition to foreign workers.

 

[Rayzorwire]

That me be correct with the Labor Party, Rayzor. But I think the Liberal Party has stayed true to it's fascist foundations. White Australia and etc.

So many Australians are really well off these days, the Labor Party had to become more conservative in order to be able to compete... but the selfish bastards won't compromise. They want more for themselves and couldn't give a flying $#% about those who aren't as well off.

I agree completely that the Labor party has had to become more centrist to remain viable Gypsy...and lost quite a few people along the way.

I tend to agree with what mld has said regarding the Liberal party. Only some of their social policies are what you'd call traditional Conservative policy. Then again, an argument could be made that Howard govt policies are only an extension of the original Menzies 'forgotten people' legacy which was the party's beginnings...that wasn't really traditional Conservative either IMO.

Except perhaps in its calculated cynicism.

 

[poppa x]

Seriously, I agree, both major parties have become far more centrist. Either one is prepared to cross the idealogical floor for votes and many examples confirm this phenomenon.

That me be correct with the Labor Party, Rayzor. But I think the Liberal Party has stayed true to it's fascist foundations. White Australia and etc.

So many Australians are really well off these days, the Labor Party had to become more conservative in order to be able to compete... but the selfish bastards won't compromise. They want more for themselves and couldn't give a flying $#% about those who aren't as well off.

Oh dear. Where do I begin? Firstly I think this establishes beyond any doubt that "party people" are truly blind.
Secondly, The White Australia policy was created by Labor. And it was the leader the leader of the Labor party (Caldwell) who to his eternal shame said "two wongs don't make a white".

So please Gypsy Jazz - get some facts before pushing your puss infected politics on to the rest of us.

 

[tigersnake]

GJs politics arent' puss infested, I like his politics.

fair enough his post was a bit off the cuff, no big deal, but lets look at what he actually said.

First: the liberal party and facist foundations: Howard's father was a paid-up member of the New Guard, a crazy fringe fascist organisation that became famous when De Groot slashed the ribbon on the Harbour Bridge at the opening.

Also, Alexander Downers leadership of the liberal party ended in part beacause he addressed the League of Rights, a fascist organisation. The liberals have had trouble shaking ties with the LoRs over the years.

Therefore saying the Liberal party has fascist roots is not entirely without basis.

Re White Australia, correct pop, Labor brought it in, with bipartisan support.

The next part about 'people wanting more for themselves and not giving a flying you-know-what about those who aren't as well off'. I'd back that up any day of the week.