Talking Politics | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Talking Politics

Agree to a certain extent. But it's no different in Business when you have a highly effective team. You debate and disagree and argue your point or stance, but once a vote has taken place or consensus reached, everyone needs to buy into it and sell it, even if you don't agree.

Admittedly this case is a lot more about core beliefs than you would get in a boardroom, but I don't find the notion of backing a team decision regardless of personal views that unusual.
Yes. In fact in terms of decisions by Boards that is corporate law in Australia and in other places. Doesn’t matter what a director votes that director is bound by law by the decisions of the board.
I don’t mean carte blanche because then it would be chaotic but in terms of conscience votes. The example that Penny Wong gave of her having to vote in the senate against same sex marriage years ago is a good one.
Something like this deserves a conscience vote.
As an aside I wonder if the ALP policy was different how someone like Josh Burns who is Jewish would feel and act?
 
Yes. In fact in terms of decisions by Boards that is corporate law in Australia and in other places. Doesn’t matter what a director votes that director is bound by law by the decisions of the board.
I don’t mean carte blanche because then it would be chaotic but in terms of conscience votes. The example that Penny Wong gave of her having to vote in the senate against same sex marriage years ago is a good one.
Something like this deserves a conscience vote.
As an aside I wonder if the ALP policy was different how someone like Josh Burns who is Jewish would feel and act?

It's not a good position for the ALP. They look like pricks if they kick her out, yet they need to be seen to staying true to the party rules. The fact it's a Senate seat gives them a bit more strength as it's true Payman got her seat because she was an ALP member. If this was a House seat they'd be on shakier ground.

Either way, the timing must really *smile* off the ALP. This was meant to be their big "Tax Breaks for Everyone" week that they wanted to dominate the media, instead they are looking like bullies, getting mean with a minority female member.
 
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It's not a good position for the ALP. They look like pricks if they kick her out, yet they need to be seen to staying true to the party rules. The fact it's a Senate seat gives them a bit more strength as it's true Payman got her seat because she was an ALP member. If this was a House seat they'd be on shakier ground.

Either way, the timing must really *smile* off the ALP. This was meant to be their big "Tax Breaks for Everyone" week that they wanted to dominate the media, instead they are looking like bullies, getting mean with a minority female member.

On this, they should have just ignored it until they got their time in the sun. Perhaps the LNP would make a huge fuss about it, but then the ALP could come out with something like "we respect each of our party member's thoughts and beliefs, and we will be discussing party policy with Ms Payman at a suitable time and place."

IMO the ALP have completely ballsed it up due to wanting to seen to be 'strong/tough'.
 
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IMO the ALP have completely ballsed it up due to wanting to seen to be 'strong/tough'.
I don't think the hard core party heavyweights would allow Albanese to ignore it. Pretty sure there was internal dissent when they didn't turf her out immediately.
 
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It's not a good position for the ALP. They look like pricks if they kick her out, yet they need to be seen to staying true to the party rules. The fact it's a Senate seat gives them a bit more strength as it's true Payman got her seat because she was an ALP member. If this was a House seat they'd be on shakier ground.

Either way, the timing must really *smile* off the ALP. This was meant to be their big "Tax Breaks for Everyone" week that they wanted to dominate the media, instead they are looking like bullies, getting mean with a minority female member.
You still "smiling".
 
I don't think the hard core party heavyweights would allow Albanese to ignore it. Pretty sure there was internal dissent when they didn't turf her out immediately.
Agree. This is made extra interesting as she has stood up for Labor's policy on the issue.

Can we assume from this, that Labor is owned by the Israeli lobby along with the unions?
 
On this, they should have just ignored it until they got their time in the sun. Perhaps the LNP would make a huge fuss about it, but then the ALP could come out with something like "we respect each of our party member's thoughts and beliefs, and we will be discussing party policy with Ms Payman at a suitable time and place."

IMO the ALP have completely ballsed it up due to wanting to seen to be 'strong/tough'.
Considering they'd already tried n obviously failed to pull her into party lines over her river to the sea comments. Then tried to soft shoe n pretend to suspend her for all of one sitting or meeting of caucus over crossing the floor n she then went straight to the meedjia with the *smile* em I'll cross the floor again next time. there was nowhere else for old jellyback Elbowskneesy to go.
 
Thing is that the Labor party room is called a caucus for a reason. Comes from the way unions operate - you fight hammer and tong at the union meeting but the decision of the members is binding and when you leave the room you all promote whatever decision is made.

While that is the background, the ALP is not a union. Also, the ALP are having a lot of trouble with the fact that most in the Parliamentary party might be very pro-Israel, but a hell of a lot of ALP voters aren't, especially young voters. It is not an easy situation for the ALP but they don't have the balance right. In addition, and I think Senator Payman has pointed this out, the ALP policy is for 2 states so her vote was (arguably) in line with ALP policy.

The whole way this came up was the Greens pulling a vote on the issue. They were doing this for one purpose only, that purpose has nothing to do with the Middle East situation, that purpose was to wedge the ALP. The timing was interesting too, just at the time the ALP wanted to tout tax cuts etc. The Greens started as a party claiming to be different, to stand by their principles and not play puerile political games. They are no longer that party, if they ever were, just a bunch of politicians trying to grandstand like all the other parties. Just a slightly centre left bunch of pollies now.

DS
 
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Thing is that the Labor party room is called a caucus for a reason. Comes from the way unions operate - you fight hammer and tong at the union meeting but the decision of the members is binding and when you leave the room you all promote whatever decision is made.

While that is the background, the ALP is not a union. Also, the ALP are having a lot of trouble with the fact that most in the Parliamentary party might be very pro-Israel, but a hell of a lot of ALP voters aren't, especially young voters. It is not an easy situation for the ALP but they don't have the balance right. In addition, and I think Senator Payman has pointed this out, the ALP policy is for 2 states so her vote was (arguably) in line with ALP policy.

The whole way this came up was the Greens pulling a vote on the issue. They were doing this for one purpose only, that purpose has nothing to do with the Middle East situation, that purpose was to wedge the ALP. The timing was interesting too, just at the time the ALP wanted to tout tax cuts etc. The Greens started as a party claiming to be different, to stand by their principles and not play puerile political games. They are no longer that party, if they ever were, just a bunch of politicians trying to grandstand like all the other parties. Just a slightly centre left bunch of pollies now.

DS
It’s not just ALP policy David it is Australian government policy.
Australia recognises the state of Israel and the 2 state solution in which Israel and a future Palestinian state co-exist.
It is a policy that has remained the same under both LNP and ALP governments.
I agree on your point about the Greens. Whilst I and many may agree on their stance, the idea of another vote actually serves no purpose at the moment.
 
It’s not just ALP policy David it is Australian government policy.
Australia recognises the state of Israel and the 2 state solution in which Israel and a future Palestinian state co-exist.
It is a policy that has remained the same under both LNP and ALP governments.
I agree on your point about the Greens. Whilst I and many may agree on their stance, the idea of another vote actually serves no purpose at the moment.

Yeah, it is a bit subtle though. Although Australia advocates a 2 state solution, the government does not recognise Palestine as a state. The ALP policy from their conference, which is supposed to be the highest policy making body in the ALP (but gets over-ridden time and again when they are in government), as far as I know is to recognise Palestine.

The purpose of the Greens bringing that vote was to wedge the ALP, had nothing to do with furthering a solution in the Middle East. Just another bunch of power seeking pollies now, if they ever were any different. After all, this is the party which swapped preferences a few elections ago with Clive Palmer in South Australia. While I like the way Hanson-Young rubs so many people up the wrong way, there is a limit, and that limit is well before you swap preferences with a coal miner.

People wonder why I am cynical!

DS
 
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Looks like Labour in the Uk are going to win the election.

Guess that means the Giant Douche gets into power against the *smile* Sandwich.

The same horrible policy making is going to keep on keeping on...
 
Looks like Labour in the Uk are going to win the election.

Guess that means the Giant Douche gets into power against the *smile* Sandwich.

The same horrible policy making is going to keep on keeping on...

Corbyn would have been better. A proper leftie. It looks like he may win his seat as an independent, which is great news.

Of course, Starmer and Labour will be much better than the Trainwreck Tories. May the Tories be in opposition for as long as the LNP will be here.

My biggest hope is that the new government have the mandate to overturn Brexit. I know Starmer is saying right now he won't change. But my hope is that the push to re-enter the EU will eventually be too great to ignore.
 
The purpose of the Greens bringing that vote was to wedge the ALP, had nothing to do with furthering a solution in the Middle East. Just another bunch of power seeking pollies now, if they ever were any different. After all, this is the party which swapped preferences a few elections ago with Clive Palmer in South Australia. While I like the way Hanson-Young rubs so many people up the wrong way, there is a limit, and that limit is well before you swap preferences with a coal miner.

People wonder why I am cynical!

DS
The Greens are a disgrace, they voted with the Liberal/Nationals to defeat Labor's Emission Trading Scheme, in the hope of gaining more seats in the next election. They have done the same with the vote on the Middle East.
 
The Greens are a disgrace, they voted with the Liberal/Nationals to defeat Labor's Emission Trading Scheme, in the hope of gaining more seats in the next election. They have done the same with the vote on the Middle East.

No wonder the ALP are somewhat antagonistic towards them.
 
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Conservative Liz Truss ex Uk PM majority 2019 election 26195. This time lost by 600. Can this type of swing it occur here ?. Cannot see why not if Albo does not pick up the pump.
 
The Greens are a disgrace, they voted with the Liberal/Nationals to defeat Labor's Emission Trading Scheme, in the hope of gaining more seats in the next election. They have done the same with the vote on the Middle East.

To be fair, that was one *smile* Emissions Trading System, full of subsidies to fossil fuels. I can understand why it was a bridge too far for the Greens. The Middle East motion was just grandstanding as they knew the LNP and ALP would vote it down.

Interesting result in the UK. Starmer has a thumping majority, about time the incompetent Tories were thrown out, hopefully they will never come back. Love the voting system: Labour increases their vote by 1.7% and wins 411 seats (up from 198); the Lib Dems increase their vote by 0.7% and win 71 seats (up from 8); the Tories vote fell by 19.9% and win 119 seats (down from 369); Reform get 14.3% of the vote and 4 seats. Note that the Lib Dems with 12.2% of the vote got 71 seats.

Gotta love first past the post. Some similar things happen here with the concentration of the vote of the National Party giving them more seats than their vote percentage indicates (similar to the Lib Dem result above), but first past the post accentuates a lot of things. They really could do with preferential voting (even France has a version of that with their "second ballot" system).

They could also do with an elected upper house, then again, the Lords can't block legislation, I think it takes 6 votes but eventually the Lords have no power to block legislation.

Starmer and Labour have a big job ahead of them. Where does the UK go now? Not an easy question. You would think they may try to reverse Brexit but unlikely in the first term. In any case, if they tried to re-join the EU I suspect the EU would insist they adopt the Euro so not a simple decision for the UK. Their economy is pretty much *smile* unless you are in finance in the City. Their housing, especially London, is a mess like ours. Labour I reckon should be trying to adopt policies to appeal more to younger voters because it is the way that the Tories have favoured the older voters which is part of the reason for the current mess.

Farage may have won his seat but he can be easily ignored, a small and ineffective group of nutters is all Reform will be and likely to disappear next election.

Corbyn won as an independent, although I like the fact he is willing to be left wing, he is a bit of a dinosaur, needs to look at new ideas on the economy. Yes, many of the privatised industries are a mess and should be brought back into government hands, but there has to be more to economic policy.

DS
 
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Conservative Liz Truss ex Uk PM majority 2019 election 26195. This time lost by 600. Can this type of swing it occur here ?. Cannot see why not if Albo does not pick up the pump.
Happened twice in recent history.

Abbott, a backbencher at the time, lost Warringah.
Howard, the PM, lost Bennelong.
 
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George Galloway dumped by the electorate for Labour after only a few months after the by-election.

And the weasely little pro-Putin tankie didn't even have the guts to show up to the seat declaration.