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Talking Politics

The Labor Government in Victoria are sinking fast

Not sure I would describe the extra GST as a bailout... more like getting closer to what we should be getting
 
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It can easily be correct. Pretty sure every major infra project kicked off by any government ends up with cost blowouts. Not sure anyone would be surprised by it.

Didn't the Sydney light rail cost double its original budget? I think West Connex was $5b more. but these clowns think its only happens in Victoria.

The Labor Government in Victoria are sinking fast

Victoria's debt to GDP ratio is 19.5% (was 33% 30 years ago). This compares to 23% federally. Canada and the USA is over 100%. Japan over 200%.

NSW net debt will overtake Victoria by 2026 if current projections are true.

Victoria's debt isn't ideal. but it's not in the horrific state some corners are claiming it is. In addition, I would argue forever and a day that the primary cause of our debt is 25-30 years of underfunding from successive federal governments. GST revenue and infrastructure revenue.
 
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Government debt is overrated as an issue imo, certainly at the levels we have in this country. “Someone has to pay it back” is the call we hear. No, governments can easily operate with a level of debt, very few don’t.
Leaving that aside all Australian governments have had debt and this trope about debt being a Labor thing is just plain wrong

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_government_debt

The period of LNP federal government from 2013-22 saw Australian gross debt go from $257 to $895 billion.
 
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Didn't the Sydney light rail cost double its original budget? I think West Connex was $5b more. but these clowns think its only happens in Victoria.



Victoria's debt to GDP ratio is 19.5% (was 33% 30 years ago). This compares to 23% federally. Canada and the USA is over 100%. Japan over 200%.

NSW net debt will overtake Victoria by 2026 if current projections are true.

Victoria's debt isn't ideal. but it's not in the horrific state some corners are claiming it is. In addition, I would argue forever and a day that the primary cause of our debt is 25-30 years of underfunding from successive federal governments. GST revenue and infrastructure revenue.

Government debt is overrated as an issue imo, certainly at the levels we have in this country. “Someone has to pay it back” is the call we hear. No, governments can easily operate with a level of debt, very few don’t.
Leaving that aside all Australian governments have had debt and this trope about debt being a Labor thing is just plain wrong

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_government_debt

The period of LNP federal government from 2013-22 saw Australian gross debt go from $257 to $895 billion.
Yeah went sky high through covid ,l guess a lot of it through the income support payments ,,,during the LOCKDOWNS.
 

Yeah went sky high through covid ,l guess a lot of it through the income support payments ,,,during the LOCKDOWNS.
Don’t cherry pick. First lockdown was March/april 2020 and that year was minimal payments compared with the next couple.
Between 2013 and 2020 gross federal debt went from $257 to $684 but even to 2019 pre COVID it more than doubled from 2013 and went up 11% as a percentage of GDP.
 
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Well you tell me. have medical rebates for consultations gone up in line with inflation over the past 30 years? what percentage of medical centres nowadays don't charge extra fees for consults? I don't know of any in my area.
Ian, you said the LNP have destroyed bulk-billing. I asked you how. Now you're asking me (more like demanding me) to answer the question I asked you??

Once again, how have the LNP destroyed bulk-billing?
 
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It can easily be correct. Pretty sure every major infra project kicked off by any government ends up with cost blowouts. Not sure anyone would be surprised by it.
Probably why Dutton wont release costings for his government owned nuclear power plants- cos the 1st estimates will be sky high, but even then everyone knows they will be wrong anyway.
 
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Probably why Dutton wont release costings for his government owned nuclear power plants- cos the 1st estimates will be sky high, but even then everyone knows they will be wrong anyway.
Looking at what Dutton released, I'm not sure he cared too much about everyone knowing he's wrong about most of what he said.
 
Ian, you said the LNP have destroyed bulk-billing. I asked you how. Now you're asking me (more like demanding me) to answer the question I asked you??

Once again, how have the LNP destroyed bulk-billing?

To answer your question if your happy for me to jump in

Because they refused to index the Medicare rebate year after year - so this has had 2 major negative impacts

Firstly - GPs can no longer cover their costs if they want to operate a fully bulk billing service, so there are very few full bulk billing services now operating, and

Secondly, as costs have gone up, the rebate has stayed the same so the gap you pay has got larger, so now Medicare is like health insurance, it provides a smaller and smaller contribution to the overall bill you get from the doc. Many people can no longer afford to pay the gap.

The Health care you receive now is more and more dependent on the $ you have - universal health care has been destroyed under the libs as they philosophically have never supported it.
 
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The reason he's going after the shiny brand new head of AFL umpiring by back dooring through the AFLHQ has absolutely nothing to do with Bernie's new job, that's a fairly pitiful comment from you.

No, as Setka said, it has to do with Bernie's previous job.

Geez, you are a precious thing aren't you, and on behalf of the head of umpiring. The Setka comments are just that, comments, and I love seeing the AFL get *smile* thrown at them. Can't see anything actually coming from the Setka comments, and I doubt Setka would either.

DS
 
To answer your question if your happy for me to jump in

Because they refused to index the Medicare rebate year after year - so this has had 2 major negative impacts

Firstly - GPs can no longer cover their costs if they want to operate a fully bulk billing service, so there are very few full bulk billing services now operating, and

Secondly, as costs have gone up, the rebate has stayed the same so the gap you pay has got larger, so now Medicare is like health insurance, it provides a smaller and smaller contribution to the overall bill you get from the doc. Many people can no longer afford to pay the gap.

The Health care you receive now is more and more dependent on the $ you have - universal health care has been destroyed under the libs as they philosophically have never supported it.
Thanks for that.

Can I ask if you're a GP, or have operated a bulk-billing clinic?

I assume you must be given you stated that "GPs can no longer cover their costs if they want to operate a fully bulk billing service".
 
Ian, you said the LNP have destroyed bulk-billing. I asked you how. Now you're asking me (more like demanding me) to answer the question I asked you??

Once again, how have the LNP destroyed bulk-billing?

This explains it reasonably well.


To answer your question if your happy for me to jump in

Because they refused to index the Medicare rebate year after year - so this has had 2 major negative impacts

Firstly - GPs can no longer cover their costs if they want to operate a fully bulk billing service, so there are very few full bulk billing services now operating, and

Secondly, as costs have gone up, the rebate has stayed the same so the gap you pay has got larger, so now Medicare is like health insurance, it provides a smaller and smaller contribution to the overall bill you get from the doc. Many people can no longer afford to pay the gap.

The Health care you receive now is more and more dependent on the $ you have - universal health care has been destroyed under the libs as they philosophically have never supported it.

This explains it even better.

Thanks for explaining it much better than I ever could (y)
 
Thanks for that.

Can I ask if you're a GP, or have operated a bulk-billing clinic?

I assume you must be given you stated that "GPs can no longer cover their costs if they want to operate a fully bulk billing service".

No dramas - not a GP but have spent the last 6 years in consumer health advocacy so have done some solid work with drs, nurses, paramedics and the health system more broadly.
 
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Thanks for that.

Can I ask if you're a GP, or have operated a bulk-billing clinic?

I assume you must be given you stated that "GPs can no longer cover their costs if they want to operate a fully bulk billing service".
I am sure that there were bulk billing clinics that have been able to continue over the years despite the medicare rebate freeze and it sounds like the one you were associated did and that's terrific.

This is the analysis by the AMA on what they see as the effect. We always need to be careful with things that are done by the AMA and the RACGP in this space because part of their role is advocacy but I think it would be great to hear your perspective as to why this may not have been the case.

https://www.ama.com.au/ama-rounds/7...care-freeze-strips-4-billion-general-practice

It just makes sense that a business that has its revenue not indexed but has costs going up would be making less money unless it became much more efficient and that is the assumption people make, plus that is what the GP advocacy groups are saying.
 
Greenie head woker Adam Bandt beloved family 14 years old mutt died & believe it or not he uses a Fund Me for his Green Party. How people vote for ding bats like him have to go & have a good look in the mirror.
 
I am sure that there were bulk billing clinics that have been able to continue over the years despite the medicare rebate freeze and it sounds like the one you were associated did and that's terrific.

This is the analysis by the AMA on what they see as the effect. We always need to be careful with things that are done by the AMA and the RACGP in this space because part of their role is advocacy but I think it would be great to hear your perspective as to why this may not have been the case.

https://www.ama.com.au/ama-rounds/7...care-freeze-strips-4-billion-general-practice

It just makes sense that a business that has its revenue not indexed but has costs going up would be making less money unless it became much more efficient and that is the assumption people make, plus that is what the GP advocacy groups are saying.
No dramas - not a GP but have spent the last 6 years in consumer health advocacy so have done some solid work with drs, nurses, paramedics and the health system more broadly.
Thanks for your responses guys, and sorry Sin for my late reply to your question from yesterday.

In my experience, bulk-billing clinics are still viable. My partner and I ran a very profitable rural bulk-billing clinic from 2007-2019, during the freeze period. Sold 3 months before COVID hit ;). Like a lot of businesses, economies of scale is vital. A solo GP BB clinic is not viable, but a 4+ FTE (full time equivalent) GP clinic is.

The sole reason why we sold was the difficulty recruiting GPs. If there was an ample supply of GPs, we would still have the clinic and most likely would have opened several more around the country. I heard the other day that only 10% of medical graduates are choosing GP as a specialty. That's a disastrous figure and a major reason why BBing is in decline. Graduates can pick and choose where they work, and most choose plush areas in major cities rather than rural areas, and certainly private fee clinics in front of BBing clinics.

Ours was the "walk in walk out" GP model whereby GPs could easily start practicing (everything was provided, the building, staff, nurses, IT, equipment, patients), and when they wanted to move on, they simply gave a few months notice. We provided everything, and all the GPs had to do was practice. We would simply deduct a management fee of around 25-35% of their billings.

We had GPs earning over $450K+ working M-F 9-5...once again, during the freeze period. There was no rorting, overbilling whatsoever but BB GPs need to work harder by utilising higher billing item numbers such as chronic disease management, case conferences (with other providers) and mental health. This actually provides a higher level of patient care, compared to private fee doctors who don't need to engage in CDM etc. as they just generally charge time-based item 23 (6-20 minutes) and 36 (21-40 minutes). My local GP charges $86 for item 23 and $126 for item 36. Our GPs also received a BB incentive of about $12 per consult, but as of November last year, it's increased to about $33.

I never had much to do with the RACGP and AMA, they were more for the GPs. The AMA is an extremely strong quasi-union and have both sides of the government in their pocket. They strongly advocate for private billing to their members, and publish rates in which they should charge patients.

Main reasons why BB is in decline:

1. Doctor shortage
2. Decline in med grads choosing GP as a specialty.
3. Mental health is now the largest presentation at GP clinics, and many GPs don't like, or don't have the quals to deal with it. Dedicated MH clinics, like the recently dedicated Urgent Care Clinics would definitely assist GPs.
4. When we opened our BB GP clinic, the current waiting time for a consult was 3 weeks for a private fee clinic. The only effect we had on the private fee clinics was reducing their waiting time to about 1 week, but that didn't stop them from smearing our clinic, suggesting the BB GPs are inferior to private fee GPs. Complete nonsense of course. We had to lawyer up for a couple. This perception orchestrated by private fee GPs and the AMA turns GP off BBing.

I could go on for hours about this, but the bottom line is the MBS fee freeze didn't destroy bulk-billing. To suggest that it did is lazy and simply incorrect.

If you live in a capital city or major population centre (most of us do), you will have no trouble finding bulk billing for GP visits, pathology and radiology. Are they on every corner? No, but if you are prepared to do some research, and maybe drive/bus/ride 10 minutes more, I guarantee you can get bulk billed.
 
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Thanks for your responses guys, and sorry Sin for my late reply to your question from yesterday.

In my experience, bulk-billing clinics are still viable. My partner and I ran a very profitable rural bulk-billing clinic from 2007-2019, during the freeze period. Sold 3 months before COVID hit ;). Like a lot of businesses, economies of scale is vital. A solo GP BB clinic is not viable, but a 4+ FTE (full time equivalent) GP clinic is.

The sole reason why we sold was the difficulty recruiting GPs. If there was an ample supply of GPs, we would still have the clinic and most likely would have opened several more around the country. I heard the other day that only 10% of medical graduates are choosing GP as a specialty. That's a disastrous figure and a major reason why BBing is in decline. Graduates can pick and choose where they work, and most choose plush areas in major cities rather than rural areas, and certainly private fee clinics in front of BBing clinics.

Ours was the "walk in walk out" GP model whereby GPs could easily start practicing (everything was provided, the building, staff, nurses, IT, equipment, patients), and when they wanted to move on, they simply gave a few months notice. We provided everything, and all the GPs had to do was practice. We would simply deduct a management fee of around 25-35% of their billings.

We had GPs earning over $450K+ working M-F 9-5...once again, during the freeze period. There was no rorting, overbilling whatsoever but BB GPs need to work harder by utilising higher billing item numbers such as chronic disease management, case conferences (with other providers) and mental health. This actually provides a higher level of patient care, compared to private fee doctors who don't need to engage in CDM etc. as they just generally charge time-based item 23 (6-20 minutes) and 36 (21-40 minutes). My local GP charges $86 for item 23 and $126 for item 36. Our GPs also received a BB incentive of about $12 per consult, but as of November last year, it's increased to about $33.

I never had much to do with the RACGP and AMA, they were more for the GPs. The AMA is an extremely strong quasi-union and have both sides of the government in their pocket. They strongly advocate for private billing to their members, and publish rates in which they should charge patients.

Main reasons why BB in in decline:

1. Doctor shortage
2. Decline in med grads choosing GP as a specialty.
3. Mental health is now the largest presentation at GP clinics, and many GPs don't like, or don't have the quals to deal with it. Dedicated MH clinics, like the recently dedicated Urgent Care Clinics would definitely assist GPs.
4. When we opened our BB GP clinic, the current waiting time for a consult was 3 weeks for a private fee clinic. The only effect we had on the private fee clinics was reducing their waiting time to about 1 week, but that didn't stop them from smearing our clinic, suggesting the BB GPs are inferior to private fee GPs. Complete nonsense of course. We had to lawyer up for a couple. This perception orchestrated by private fee GPs and the AMA turns GP off BBing.

I could go on for hours about this, but the bottom line is the MBS fee freeze didn't destroy bulk-billing. To suggest that it did is lazy and simply incorrect.

If you live in a capital city or major population centre (most of us do), you will have no trouble finding bulk billing for GP visits, pathology and radiology. Are they on every corner? No, but if you are prepared to do some research, and maybe drive/bus/ride 10 minutes more, I guarantee you can get bulk billed.
Thanks Nico. Incredibly insightful.

I have had experience in public health but also over recent years with one or two of the colleges , not the RACGP but I know a couple of people there.

The point you make about doctors not picking general practice is part of a wider problem because there are other specialties they aren’t picking as well. There is a shortage of psychiatrists and dermatologists as an example, young doctors tend to not pick emergency or intensive care medicine or surgery because of the unsociable hours.

The colleges…don’t get me started. They have too much power and have a vested interest in keeping training numbers relatively low and they can control memberships.

I have had experience looking at cost vs Medicare schedule revenue for imaging and pathology and whilst you rightly say they can still bulk bill there is a lack of consistency. Many items are profitable, especially basic pathology, and others aren’t but the Medicare schedule does need review imo.

Thanks again.
 
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Thanks Nico. Incredibly insightful.

I have had experience in public health but also over recent years with one or two of the colleges , not the RACGP but I know a couple of people there.

The point you make about doctors not picking general practice is part of a wider problem because there are other specialties they aren’t picking as well. There is a shortage of psychiatrists and dermatologists as an example, young doctors tend to not pick emergency or intensive care medicine or surgery because of the unsociable hours.

The colleges…don’t get me started. They have too much power and have a vested interest in keeping training numbers relatively low and they can control memberships.

I have has experience looking at cost vs Medicare schedule revenue for imaging and pathology and whilst you rightly say they can still bulk bill there is a lack of consistency. Many items are profitable, especially basic pathology, and others aren’t but the Medicare schedule does need review imo.

Thanks again.
No worries.

I knew a med student once who wasn't the most social guy and when I asked him what he wants to specialise in, he said anesthesiology so he doesn't have to talk to his patients lol
 
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No worries.

I knew a med student once who wasn't the most social guy and when I asked him what he wants to specialise in, he said anesthesiology so he doesn't have to talk to his patients lol
The scary thing is that it doesn't surprise me having worked with and around a lot of doctors. :rolleyes: