Talking Politics

[Sintiger]

As an aside February 1st is the 40th anniversary of Medicare. The system is not perfect but we are incredibly lucky to be in a country that provides universal health care.
It is worthwhile remembering that it had a predecessor which was introduced by the Whitlam Government called Medibank. That was dismantled by the Fraser government and resurrected under the name Medicare by Bob Hawke's government in 1984. The LNP opposed its introduction and had as policy its dismantling for 8-9 years after.
I am not an ALP supporter perse but this is an example of why I can't vote LNP. I have big issues with a political philosophy of a party that can oppose something so universally in our interests as a universal public health scheme.

 

[Baloo]

I don't think Australians realise how lucky we are with Medicare. British NHS is similar but by all accounts the Tories have pulled funding. Compare that to the US where Hospitals wont admit you if you don't have private insurance, and we're well off.

 

[Sintiger]

I don't think Australians realise how lucky we are with Medicare. British NHS is similar but by all accounts the Tories have pulled funding. Compare that to the US where Hospitals wont admit you if you don't have private insurance, and we're well off.

The whole system needs to be looked at again Baloo and updated but generally it is one of the better systems in the world.
Bulk billing is declining, we need dental cover added, radiology is too expensive and the cost sharing between the commonwealth and the states is very messy. But that is more about how it is funded that how it works.
The PBS needs looking at as well, it takes too long to get new drugs listed.

 

[TigerMasochist]

You do know the government of the day and pass laws to readjust the 3m threshold up? Much like the tax rates and bands. This government has made a decision for what's right today, while they are in power.

Any government of the day has the power shift the brackets to cater for bracket creep. If they wanted to be fair about it, the tax rates should be indexed so inflation driven bracket creep won't happen.

But isn't that exactly what Scumo did in regards to the tax bracket / wages inflation creep a few years ago? Wasn't it also passed by Elbowskneesy or Shortarse n the Labor party as well?

Now that Elbows n his mob are actually in power, all of a sudden there's a hit on the superannuation of the supposed rich fat cats. Then there's a hit on the tax bracket creep, again on the supposed rich fat cats.
Next in line will be the negative gearing and other investment tax breaks to pull those supposed rich fat cats even further into the can't make money, can't be bothered line.
Before you know it there'll be *smile* all people putting in any effort to get ahead or investing in anything in Ozstraya n they'll all just be sitting back n waiting for Com Com Comrade Elbowskneesy to hand them their entitled portion of not much.

 

[Baloo]

But isn't that exactly what Scumo did in regards to the tax bracket / wages inflation creep a few years ago? Wasn't it also passed by Elbowskneesy or Shortarse n the Labor party as well?

Now that Elbows n his mob are actually in power, all of a sudden there's a hit on the superannuation of the supposed rich fat cats. Then there's a hit on the tax bracket creep, again on the supposed rich fat cats.
Next in line will be the negative gearing and other investment tax breaks to pull those supposed rich fat cats even further into the can't make money, can't be bothered line.
Before you know it there'll be *smile* all people putting in any effort to get ahead or investing in anything in Ozstraya n they'll all just be sitting back n waiting for Com Com Comrade Elbowskneesy to hand them their entitled portion of not much.

Thanks. I don't need to read the Hun this week.

 

[TigerMasochist]

There will be somewhere between 3 and 10 governments during that time and plenty of opportunity for governments of any persuasion to index that as many things in the super area are indexed.

So every time we change the Government, they can just break their pre election promises and change the rules again, just like Elbows has done? What a waste of time n *smile* money.

I hope they don’t because the tax benefits we give for super are unaffordable now and will be even more so by then. We can get rid of the biggest rort of all being cash refunds for franking credits given by Santa Claus Howard and his chief elf Costello.

So there's something wrong with giving people a tax break on the wages they are forced to save all their working lives, so that they can try to have a comfortable retirement without having to run cap in hand to the Govt for hand outs once they stop working.
FMD there's plenty of people would be praying to get a ten to twelve % pay rise to help them cope with their current expenses rather than having to wait 20-30-40 years to be able to access their hard earned money instead of forced dumping it into union slush funds, erm I mean super.

 

[TigerMasochist]

Thanks. I don't need to read the Hun this week.

Saved ya $2.00 on the cost of a paper, be happy.

 

[Baloo]

Saved ya $2.00 on the cost of a paper, be happy.

Nah, I use my parents subscription to get online access, but thank anyway

 

[Nico]

The whole system needs to be looked at again Baloo and updated but generally it is one of the better systems in the world.
Bulk billing is declining, we need dental cover added, radiology is too expensive and the cost sharing between the commonwealth and the states is very messy. But that is more about how it is funded that how it works.
The PBS needs looking at as well, it takes too long to get new drugs listed.

Funny you mention radiology is too expensive. My GP referred me to a radiology company for an ultrasound last week. I was quoted $271.55 with a rebate of $111.55 (out of pocket $160).

I googled "bulk bill radiology near me" and I'm getting it bulk billed tomorrow morning at another company.

The pathology and radiology referrals you receive from your GP can be used at ANY company, not just the one on the referral. Don't believe what anyone says, this is now the law.

Shop around, and most of the times you can get radiology (usually excluding MRIs unless referred by a specialist) and pathology bulk billed.

 

[Sintiger]

So every time we change the Government, they can just break their pre election promises and change the rules again, just like Elbows has done? What a waste of time n *smile* money.

How is that related to what I said? The $3 million could be indexed by future governments. Lots of things in the superannuation space get indexed, for example the now $27,500 cap.

So there's something wrong with giving people a tax break on the wages they are forced to save all their working lives, so that they can try to have a comfortable retirement without having to run cap in hand to the Govt for hand outs once they stop working.
FMD there's plenty of people would be praying to get a ten to twelve % pay rise to help them cope with their current expenses rather than having to wait 20-30-40 years to be able to access their hard earned money instead of forced dumping it into union slush funds, erm I mean super.

This is rambling. There are enormous amounts of super in funds not attached to unions, including mine.
Also I didn’t say that superannuation shouldn’t attract tax breaks, don’t misrepresent what I have said. What I said was that the amount we give now is unaffordable going forward. That’s not my opinion only, it is one that has been documented and written about by many economists.
We should make it attractive for people to invest through super but we have made it too attractive to the point that we will inevitably have to change it or raise taxes elsewhere.

 

[Sintiger]

The pathology and radiology referrals you receive from your GP can be used at ANY company, not just the one on the referral. Don't believe what anyone says, this is now the law

That’s always been the law, or at least for as long as I am aware of.
My point is that finding bulk billing radiology is not easy and some of the reason for that is that depending on what you are having done the Medicare schedule fee may not be anywhere high enough.
However pathology providers can usually make a very good living on the scheduled fee (bulk billing) on the basic tests.
( note I have been in the industry and have seen a lot of this in practice).

 

[DavidSSS]

As an aside February 1st is the 40th anniversary of Medicare. The system is not perfect but we are incredibly lucky to be in a country that provides universal health care.
It is worthwhile remembering that it had a predecessor which was introduced by the Whitlam Government called Medibank. That was dismantled by the Fraser government and resurrected under the name Medicare by Bob Hawke's government in 1984. The LNP opposed its introduction and had as policy its dismantling for 8-9 years after.
I am not an ALP supporter perse but this is an example of why I can't vote LNP. I have big issues with a political philosophy of a party that can oppose something so universally in our interests as a universal public health scheme.

You also have to remember, the LNP not only dismantled Medibank when they got back into power, but getting Medibank through parliament took unprecedented effort.

The ALP was elected in 1972 with 50.1% of the primary vote, they were elected on a clear platform including Medibank. The ALP government could not get it through the parliament. They held a double dissolution election and still could not get it through parliament. It ended up getting through in a joint sitting of both houses - the first and only time a joint sitting has ever happened.

Always remember, the LNP fundamentally disagree with a national health system, they just know they can't abolish it now.

As for tax indexation, great idea. Will never happen. The current system allows the government to gain more revenue as bracket creep kicks in, and then they can fix the bracket creep by giving us tax cuts - the lack of indexation is a candy store for politicians.

But the thing to remember about the tax changes which the LNP put forward also made our system way less progressive. The flat rate from $40K to $200K was basically implementing a flat tax regime. Talk about class warfare.

DS

 

[TigerMasochist]

We should make it attractive for people to invest through super but we have made it too attractive to the point that we will inevitably have to change it or raise taxes elsewhere.

It's not attractive, it's compulsory for every employee to have a slice of his earnings stuffed into super whether they want to or not. There is an option for a small % of the population to add additional excess funds to their super if they have the means or for a very few who might have the knowledge n capability to self manage a super fund.

 

[tigerman]

As an aside February 1st is the 40th anniversary of Medicare. The system is not perfect but we are incredibly lucky to be in a country that provides universal health care.
It is worthwhile remembering that it had a predecessor which was introduced by the Whitlam Government called Medibank. That was dismantled by the Fraser government and resurrected under the name Medicare by Bob Hawke's government in 1984. The LNP opposed its introduction and had as policy its dismantling for 8-9 years after.
I am not an ALP supporter perse but this is an example of why I can't vote LNP. I have big issues with a political philosophy of a party that can oppose something so universally in our interests as a universal public health scheme.

Yes, Medicare is a fantastic humanitarian healthcare policy introduced by the Labor party to the benefit of all Australians. And of course the Liberal party did all they could to prevent it being implemented.

And yes, you guessed it the Liberals did all they could to prevent Paul Keating's compulsory superannuation. Another great initiative that has also benefited all Australians.

Can anyone jog my memory what the Liberal party have done that has benefited all Australians. I will concede that they have a done a hell of a lot for the their fat cat mates.

 

[tigerman]

What about the Coalition's pathetic social housing record.

The Keating, Rudd and Gillard Labor Govt's, despite spending less than half the time in power, built almost twice as many social houses than Howard, Abbott, Turnbull and Morrison.
What's the end result..... as a massive housing shortage.

Below is just part of an article, click on the link to read the rest of it.

"Abject Coalition failure​

The ABS home starts data and population records enable us to calculate the number of affordable houses built per year by each government. Comparing all prime ministerships over the last 30 years, we find the Coalition has consistently failed in this area, with the Turnbull and Morrison period by far the worst."



"The Coalition Government could easily have alleviated the housing shortage which is the fundamental cause of the price hikes. Estimates of the sums the Coalition allowed wealthy enterprises to rort through the shonky JobKeeper scheme are now around $27 billion. That could have provided 300,000 low-cost homes and greatly boosted employment in the process."

House prices skyrocket and social housing collapses under the Coalition

Under the current Coalition Government, provision of public housing has fallen to a nadir and house prices are soaring, as Alan Austin reports.

independentaustralia.net

 

[Baloo]

Can anyone jog my memory what the Liberal party have done that has benefited all Australians

Howard locked down the country's gun control. It's about the only thing that I give him credit for throughout the time he was PM

 

[Tigers of Old]

Nemisis ep 1 was a great watch.

 

[DavidSSS]

Howard locked down the country's gun control. It's about the only thing that I give him credit for throughout the time he was PM

Ok, I'll throw in one more.

I reckon the intervention in East Timor after the referendum was worthy. The ALP's history on this issue would have made it harder for them to intervene against Indonesia. The Howard government had to be pushed into this but they actually did intervene.

Mind you, Howard was in government for a long time and we are clutching at straws, and no-one seems to be able to find anything from the Abbott, Turnbull, Morrison government, although the entertainment value of Nemesis is looking good!

DS

 

[Sintiger]

It's not attractive, it's compulsory for every employee to have a slice of his earnings stuffed into super whether they want to or not. There is an option for a small % of the population to add additional excess funds to their super if they have the means or for a very few who might have the knowledge n capability to self manage a super fund.

You can maximise super contributions

You talk as if compulsory superannuation is a bad thing.

 

[Sintiger]

Yes, Medicare is a fantastic humanitarian healthcare policy introduced by the Labor party to the benefit of all Australians. And of course the Liberal party did all they could to prevent it being implemented.

And yes, you guessed it the Liberals did all they could to prevent Paul Keating's compulsory superannuation. Another great initiative that has also benefited all Australians.

Can anyone jog my memory what the Liberal party have done that has benefited all Australians. I will concede that they have a done a hell of a lot for the their fat cat mates.

GST ? The gun moratorium ? That’s about all I can think of.

Tories are by nature not reformers, they like status quo. Most of the great reforms in democratic countries are done by social democrat/ left leaning parties.

In Australia
Medicare, compulsory super, floating of the A$, independent Reserve Bank, scrapping university fees, NDIS, dividend imputation, indigenous land rights

All big reforms