shaun hampson threads [merged]

[tigerlove]

No problem with getting a well rounded player as a ruckman.

However people get all excited about hitouts when they don't matter much at all (unless you can really influence clearance numbers your way).

I disagree. From comments I've read to me it appears most agree that it's not just about the hit out numbers. Griffiths ain't bad in the ruck but he's not built for permanent ruck duties. Still has a lot to learn in the caper. A perfect backup ruckman.

 

[tigertim]

The concensus is we need to upgrade on Hampy for 2017.

The question is, who?

Assuming we aren't able to land the established A grade ruck (eg Goldstein, Gawn, Sandi, NicNat, Mummy, Jacobs) in the off season who are we going to target? There's no use just getting someone because they have "200cm" against their name. They have to be "good" ((derr!)

No use in chasing the C graders ie Giles, Gorringe, Lobbe, Longer, Wood, Phillips, Lycett, Hannath, Clarke, Fitzpatrick etc

Is it Downie, Naismith, Nankervis, Nicholls, Howard? Is it Tom Hickey?

Is it Marc Pittonet? Mitch King? Darcy Cameron? Jack Osborn?

It'll be interesting to see how the RFC tackle this. I'll be staggered if they go into 2017 with Maric and Hampson again (and maybe a drafted kid ruck)

We need someone as our new no. 1 ruck to go in rd 1 2017.

 

[Tigers of Old]

The concensus is we need to upgrade on Hampy for 2017.

The question is, who?

Gus Graham had 58 hitouts for Perth last weekend apparently. :theyareontome

 

[Baloo]

Stop The Gus Bus Farce

 

[leon]

Stop The Gus Bus Farce

:rofl Assuming this is the Angus Graham, our former player.

 

[seven]

Stop The Gus Bus Farce

What is Angus up to now?

 

[TigerMasochist]

Griffiths ain't bad in the ruck but he's not built for permanent ruck duties.

Griff 200 cm 101 kg.
Goldstein 201 cm 101kg.
Nicnat 201 cm 105 kg.
All three have exceptional mobility n all round football ability. The only difference is Griff's been a bit more fragile so far n Griff's been a late starter at the ruck. Nothing at all to say he can't develop into a premium ruck man if he keeps getting a bit more ruck work pushed into him this year n next.
Certainly shown this year that having ruck time as well as forward n roaming that it keeps Griff far more involved in the game and he's having more impact. Just coming into his peak years n full physical maturity, if he can avoid some of those niggling injuries that keep stuffing up his continuity, he has the all round talent to be a quality ruck.

 

[tigerlove]

Griff 200 cm 101 kg.
Goldstein 201 cm 101kg.
Nicnat 201 cm 105 kg.
All three have exceptional mobility n all round football ability. The only difference is Griff's been a bit more fragile so far n Griff's been a late starter at the ruck. Nothing at all to say he can't develop into a premium ruck man if he keeps getting a bit more ruck work pushed into him this year n next.
Certainly shown this year that having ruck time as well as forward n roaming that it keeps Griff far more involved in the game and he's having more impact. Just coming into his peak years n full physical maturity, if he can avoid some of those niggling injuries that keep stuffing up his continuity, he has the all round talent to be a quality ruck.

Griff is no Goldstein or Nicnat in the ruck I'm afraid. When I talk about build we're talking about body mass and core strength. I can't say I've seen much of that from Griff thus my reason for saying I don't see him as a permanent first ruck. I'd also possibly question his ability to run around the ground all day. But he will be a fantastic backup ruckman no doubt about it.

 

[Mr Brightside]

The concensus is we need to upgrade on Hampy for 2017.

The question is, who?

Assuming we aren't able to land the established A grade ruck (eg Goldstein, Gawn, Sandi, NicNat, Mummy, Jacobs) in the off season who are we going to target? There's no use just getting someone because they have "200cm" against their name. They have to be "good" ((derr!)

No use in chasing the C graders ie Giles, Gorringe, Lobbe, Longer, Wood, Phillips, Lycett, Hannath, Clarke, Fitzpatrick etc

Is it Downie, Naismith, Nankervis, Nicholls, Howard? Is it Tom Hickey?

Is it Marc Pittonet? Mitch King? Darcy Cameron? Jack Osborn?

It'll be interesting to see how the RFC tackle this. I'll be staggered if they go into 2017 with Maric and Hampson again (and maybe a drafted kid ruck)

We need someone as our new no. 1 ruck to go in rd 1 2017.

Well said TT , Longers one who I believe played well last year and now Hickeys taken over.

I'm happy with Griffiths progression as a second ruck and for his price Hammer maybe OK to have as a ruck on the list.

Like our whole list management they have to make the right choice , go young or go in their prime

 

[zippadeee]

Never ever trade a ruckman in. Wait to free agency.
Can't afford to lose good picks for lemons like Hampson
In saying that the kid from GC smith is a nice ruckman . What were we doing? Scouting the depths of GWS and ports reserves?

 

[TigerMasochist]

Griff is no Goldstein or Nicnat in the ruck I'm afraid. When I talk about build we're talking about body mass and core strength. I can't say I've seen much of that from Griff thus my reason for saying I don't see him as a permanent first ruck. I'd also possibly question his ability to run around the ground all day. But he will be a fantastic backup ruckman no doubt about it.

You said Griff was not a suitable build for permanent ruck. Numbers say he's a perfect size n build for a ruck.
He's also two years younger than Nic Nat n three years younger than Goldy so still has time to consolidate in the core strength dept. Griff's played mainly as a forward n bits n pieces ruck when he's been able to get on the park, been hampered to some degree by injury issues.
Griff's also been working over the last two years to build his aerobic capacity n currently spends a fair bit of his game roaming all areas.

From what I can see the biggest issues keeping Griff from possibly taking the ruck mantle in a year or two are his previous fragility n his ruck inexperience. He has all the rest of the physical attributes required if that's the way he n the club want to try things and is working on the other aspects.
Club may prefer to keep using him in his current role n he may never become just a ruck man, guess we'll have to wait n see what unfolds.

 

[Tigerfan]

Not sure if hammer will have any opposition against port

 

[blutiga]

Not sure if hammer will have any opposition against port

Other teams still think he's more dangerous to us than them?

 

[tigerlove]

From what I can see the biggest issues keeping Griff from possibly taking the ruck mantle in a year or two are his previous fragility n his ruck inexperience.

And there you have it, one of the reasons I don't think he'll ever become a permanent ruckman. Height and weight is a factor but only part of the build factor. Some players are thick-boned (for want of a better description) and can take the punishment over and over. Others can't. Typically they are players who have very strong core body strength. You watch Griffiths even forward, he rarely uses strength to over power an opponent, he typically needs a run at the ball. Look at Bartlett, he was a rake but never got injured, he could ride bumps and that's what got him to 400 games.

As you say we'll have to wait and see but I doubt the Tigers are looking at Griffiths to become a permanent ruckman.

 

[leon]

Then what's the point in playing Hampson? If clearances come down to midfield, and we can play Griff or Vickery who can play as a fourth midfielder, then what purpose does Hampson serve? He's not dominant enough in the ruck for us to gain any advantage out of it, and can't do anything else on the ground.

He took one contested mark (something Maric used to do routinely, many times a game) and all of a sudden he's in a purple patch. He was terrible again on the weekend, perhaps slightly above what we expect of him, because what we expect is horrendous.

There is still no purpose in us playing Hampson. Everyone agrees that he isn't helping us in the centre, and he doesn't do anything else.

You and Lamby might be interested in checking out latest data posted on our website re your respective view of Hampson's uselessness. See Contested marks and One-percenters:

http://www.richmondfc.com.au/news/2016-06-20/dustys-data-domination

Surely data doesn't lie?

 

[lamb22]

You and Lamby might be interested in checking out latest data posted on our website re your respective view of Hampson's uselessness. See Contested marks and One-percenters:

http://www.richmondfc.com.au/news/2016-06-20/dustys-data-domination

Surely data doesn't lie?

They dont lie and they seem to prove our point. Vickery takes more contested marks and Griff takes more contested marks per game. Both Vickery and Griff take more marks inside 50 and both Vickery and Griff kick more goals.

Why not bring in Beanie who is likely to kick more goals and take more marks than either Griff or Ty. Let Griff and Ty ruck and pension off Hammer to the EDFL thirds.

 

[leon]

Also Hampson is Hampson and Gawn is Gawn.

I see Gawn played an excellent game against the Swans; 58 hitouts and 14 disposals (Nankervis only 9HOs, 7 D). Swans without Tippett though. Despite this, Swans still won clearances 46 to 37. Also beat them 86 pts to 31.

Therefore, by your consistent rationale and arguments on this thread, Lamby, Gawn must be, to recycle your words for Hammer, "utterly useless."

BTW, Tippett played against us in our match against Swans at the G. We still won CLRs 35/28; Hammer credited with winning HOs 27/23.

As I'm sure you noticed, we also won the game; our best win of 2016.

 

[lamb22]

I see Gawn played an excellent game against the Swans; 58 hitouts and 14 disposals (Nankervis only 9HOs, 7 D). Swans without Tippett though. Despite this, Swans still won clearances 46 to 37. Also beat them 86 pts to 31.

Therefore, by your consistent rationale and arguments on this thread, Lamby, Gawn must be, to recycle your words for Hammer, "utterly useless."

BTW, Tippett played against us in our match against Swans at the G. We still won CLRs 35/28; Hammer credited with winning HOs 27/23.

As I'm sure you noticed, we also won the game; our best win of 2016.

You just proved my point that hitouts mean jackshit. Gawn gives value because he marks, can kick a goal, usually gets a few disposals and provides a useful body in contests.

But in wet conditions rucks are probably even more irrelevant than in dry conditions because the ball is on the deck so much more.

If you actually understood the consequences of your own post we might end up on the same page eventually .

 

[leon]

You (and Hardwick and the other experts you mentioned) just dont get it.

1. Griff, Vickery and Mcbean are all much better footballers than Hampson.(not hard, I could name about 800 more players on AFL lists)
2. Ruck those 3 and rotate them forward.
3. If the clearance numbers are similar to when Hampson rucks you are already a winner.
4. Find/poach the next Gawn, Goldy or Nicnat.(or fast track Cholly).

Someone posted that Port are last in HO and HOTA and first for scores from clearances. Err daaahhh! If you play an extra clearance player rather than specialist ruck you are likely to win more clearances. This is something you keep missing when you blame our clearance players for not winning more clearances but conveniently forget Hampson is one of those (admittedly very very poor) clearance players.

Re this post too, Lamby. Isn't there a glaring contradiction between your point 4 above where you advocate grabbing a major, huge, classy ruckman obviously for CBs and CLRS, then in the next paragraph, question their purpose or use whatsoever? That is, just 'play an extra clearance player rather than specialist ruck.'

Which is it Lamby? I'm finding your pronouncements confusing and befuddling? Surely not having a bob each way? What are you actually advocating? Could we ruck Daniel Rioli and do better than with Hampson? The bulldogs Caleb Daniel? Yet they play 2 dedicated rucks. The Cats play three; BTW they're on top of the ladder.

 

[leon]

You just proved my point that hitouts mean jacksh!t. Gawn gives value because he marks, can kick a goal, usually gets a few disposals and provides a useful body in contests.

But in wet conditions rucks are probably even more irrelevant than in dry conditions because the ball is on the deck so much more.

If you actually understood the consequences of your own post we might end up on the same page eventually .

But he still dominated despite the awful conditions! Slaughtered them in the ruck! But the Dees got slaughtered on the scoreboard, because it proves my contention: winning clearances is a product of a wining midfield TEAM, not just the result of one member who happens to be the ruckman.
Also, Hammer can mark, kick a rare goal and does put his body in. He's clumsy and unco, but many huge men are.

As I keep saying, he's not great, but a lot more useful than you're willing to admit.