shaun hampson threads [merged]

[tigertim]

In your previous post you said the distance was "metres gained". If true, a handball sideways would equal 0 metres gained and one to a player behind would be negative right?

They're your stats Tim.

Actually they're not my stats Anthony, they're Champion Datas, I've just regurgitated them.

But you make an interesting point re sideways/backwards and I don't know CD definition of "metres gained".

But nonetheless Hampy averaged 3.85 metres gained with each possession which is pretty poor IMO especially when you compare it to the other ruckmens MG stats.

 

[lamb22]

The Port Brisbane game is very interesting and hopefully it sees a trend which sees the end of the dinosaur ruckman.

Martin got 51 hitouts and yet his opponent was best on ground and more importantly got 13 clearances.

I haven't seen the game but it would appear Trengove just contested kept his feet and Port outnumbered Brisbane at the contest as Martin flew and put himself out of the follow ups.

Clearly Trengove was way more valuable than Martin with 13 clearances himself and Port winning the clearances 52 - 34 as opposed to a rather meaningless 51 hitouts in the end for Martin.

 

[leon]

The Port Brisbane game is very interesting and hopefully it sees a trend which sees the end of the dinosaur ruckman.

Martin got 51 hitouts and yet his opponent was best on ground and more importantly got 13 clearances.

I haven't seen the game but it would appear Trengove just contested kept his feet and Port outnumbered Brisbane at the contest as Martin flew and put himself out of the follow ups.

Clearly Trengove was way more valuable than Martin with 13 clearances himself and Port winning the clearances 52 - 34 as opposed to a rather meaningless 51 hitouts in the end for Martin.

Have already agreed with you on this (far too late) last night and much earlier after TT's excellent stats post today. But not sure we can draw definitive conclusions about it yet. Needs far more test-the-hypothesis-before it's scientifically accepted I think:

- PA have used Trengove like this before, might have been last year or was it 2014, due to issues with Lobbe. So why did they not persist with it? Still took Ryder for another ruck too
- Probably only proves the obvious: if your mids are the best, you get anyone's HOs
- If it is definitive, all the clubs with "dinosaurs" are both stupid, know little about football, are wasting a lot of $$$$$$$$$$$$
- So needs further proof over many more games against different quality main ruckman and midfields

Overall, I'm open-minded about this. It is damn interesting. But maybe I still think if Melbourne wanted to trade us Max Gawn for all our current big men except Griffiths and possibly McBean*, I'd jump at it. Do you think Melbourne would trade one useless dinosaur for another three though - Maric, Hampson and Vickery?
It's a good deal as far as dinosaurs go!

* These two because believe they both may have real upside; no certainty though

 

[lamb22]

Happy to have Gawn Leon. Takes marks, is big body at clearances, competitive at ruck contests and starting to kick the odd goal.

I've always said if you have a Goldstein or Natanui great, but if you dont have a first or even second class ruckman, halve the contest and get another ruck rover in.

BTW did another ruck analysis of our game where I just count the ruck contests our players enter and the clearance results.

Hammer had 85 contests (lot of work there) 31 clearances Richmond 39 Hawks 15 halved.

Griff 15 contests 8 Richmond 4 Hawks 3 halved.

They dont quite tally with the official figures, they might have given a few more (about 3 or 4) halved contests to Richmond but I don't count the handball out to a player in congestion who gets tackled. I just call that a halved contest.

Probably a margin of error of 3 or 4 % in the figures due to judgement calls and seven's dodgy coverage.

 

[AngryAnt]

Actually they're not my stats Anthony, they're Champion Datas, I've just regurgitated them.

But you make an interesting point re sideways/backwards and I don't know CD definition of "metres gained".

But nonetheless Hampy averaged 3.85 metres gained with each possession which is pretty poor IMO especially when you compare it to the other ruckmens MG stats.

Yes, which is probably down to his low number of possessions and a little bit of handball to players in better position which may be behind him. Depending on how the stats are calculated.

 

[leon]

Happy to have Gawn Leon. Takes marks, is big body at clearances, competitive at ruck contests and starting to kick the odd goal.

I've always said if you have a Goldstein or Natanui great, but if you dont have a first or even second class ruckman, halve the contest and get another ruck rover in.

BTW did another ruck analysis of our game where I just count the ruck contests our players enter and the clearance results.

Hammer had 85 contests (lot of work there) 31 clearances Richmond 39 Hawks 15 halved.

Griff 15 contests 8 Richmond 4 Hawks 3 halved.

They dont quite tally with the official figures, they might have given a few more (about 3 or 4) halved contests to Richmond but I don't count the handball out to a player in congestion who gets tackled. I just call that a halved contest.

Probably a margin of error of 3 or 4 % in the figures due to judgement calls and seven's dodgy coverage.

I've reviewed the match now too and quite surprised how much better than my initial impression Hammer and Griff did, although H by far the most work. Interestingly, TV hardly contested a bounce/ball up. Haven't done a count like you, but your figures seem harsh; so you count it as a HOTA of the opposition if say, our guy knocks it down well but it is virtually sharked from under their nose? If so, can hardly blame the ruckman for that. Also no surprises that Dawks mids better than ours without Cotch; premiership players like Shiels, Langford and Rioli etc, even with no Mitchell or Hodge.

The way that so many on PRE and Tiger followers have identified first ruck as a major priority proves that most still far and beyond value the importance of this role/player. As I keep saying, Hampo is the the best we have for immediate future; Griff coming along but utility/relief ruck best role for him currently.

Anyway, know that you'll love Dimma's pronouncement from today's presser"

"He [Maric] just hasn't had the workload he requires. Plus we think Shaun (Hampson) is giving us some good dominance around the clearances."

 

[tigerlove]

Indeed, but its not hard to get 100% DE when you KICK it once and handball it 5 times to the guys standing next to you ( hence the metres gained only being 27metres)

27/7 = 3.85 metres for each possession.

Yep, in effect, he efficiently disposed of his 1 and only kick for the game. I'm impressed.

 

[tigerlove]

His rucking in the first quarter was nothing short of astounding for him. Some of his deft touches to our players were too good to be flukes (I think in the past he has been fluky). The angle of his hand to get the ball where it went was stunning at times. But he went downhill through the game. I'm no fan, but his skills for a short while astonished me.

Hampson is a pretty good tap ruckman but I've noticed that he always seems to start well but turn back into a pumpkin as the match wears on.

 

[Barnzy]

Hardwick - "He just hasn't had the workload he requires. Plus we think Shaun (Hampson) is giving us some good dominance around the clearances."

Geez given all this supposed midfield dominance lets sign him up for another 3 years!

 

[tigerlove]

And Hampson is kind of comparable to Grundy and Mumford. So much for we should have grabbed one of these two instead.

lol, you can't be serious. Some avg stats for this year:

Mumford: 4.7 tackles, 1 contested mark, 10.7 disposals, 7.3 contested possessions, 3.1 clearances
Gawn: 2.7 tackles, 2.3 contested mark, 15 disposals, 8.9 contested possessions, 3.1 clearances
Hampson: 1.7 tackles, 0.8 contested mark, 7.7 disposals, 4.0 contested possessions, 1.5 clearances

edit: oops forgot Grundy (who is only 22yo): 4.2 tackles, 0.7 contested mark, 16.5 disposals, 9.0 contested possessions, 3.2 clearances

Once the hit out contest is finished, Hampson is an oversized witches hat. He's effectively useless and we're playing one man down in the midfield.

 

[lamb22]

Hardwick - "He just hasn't had the workload he requires. Plus we think Shaun (Hampson) is giving us some good dominance around the clearances."

Geez given all this supposed midfield dominance lets sign him up for another 3 years!

You wonder what figures they work off. I reviewed the game and we lost clearances when Hammer rucked and won them Griff rucked. He mentioned scores from clearances and no doubt we and he was OK early, say first 10 minutes, but after that I thought Hawks really got off the chain. They scored a hand delivered goal form a Hampson tap in the 4th.

Cannot see how we win if Hampson plays.

 

[tigertim]

"He [Maric] just hasn't had the workload he requires. Plus we think Shaun (Hampson) is giving us some good dominance around the clearances."

Clearances were 40 to Hawthorn and 40 to Richmond last week so I'm not sure what Dimma is referring to.

 

[tigerlove]

Clearances were 40 to Hawthorn and 40 to Richmond last week so I'm not sure what Dimma is referring to.

We were killing them in the clearances in the first half, think from memory we almost had double. Hawthorn, as good teams do, addressed that issue in the 2nd half.

 

[Tiger Pops]

yeh he looked good in the middle, he gave some very good service, Griggs early goal was another quality hit out, also took two very good marks I recall as well. OK, its not a brilliant effort but he can play, just lacks fitness and consistency. He looks to give off by hand, he knows his limitations.

For what he have in the group, he (some may say unfortunately) is the best ruck option at the moment.

 

[Barnzy]

You wonder what figures they work off. I reviewed the game and we lost clearances when Hammer rucked and won them Griff rucked. He mentioned scores from clearances and no doubt we and he was OK early, say first 10 minutes, but after that I thought Hawks really got off the chain. They scored a hand delivered goal form a Hampson tap in the 4th.

Cannot see how we win if Hampson plays.

Yeah who knows. I stopped wondering awhile ago, now I just laugh. Hardwick these days is just a parody of himself.

The win loss is around or under 30% with Hampson in the side over his tenure last I saw. Not exactly a coincidence now is it? But at least he brings clearance dominance!

 

[tigertim]

V Haw:6 disposals (1k & 5h) @ 100% DE, 27 mtrs gained, 3 marks, 0 clearances, 37HO (12 HOTA @ 32%) in 82% GT.

V Port: 7 disposals (1k & 6h) @ 86% DE, 26mtrs gained, 1 mark, 3 clearances, 39 HO (13 HOTA @ 33%) in 88% GT.

(Btw the Port game he was against young un Dougal Howard who had 8 disposals (6 k & 2 h) @ 75% DE, 82mtrs gained, 2 marks, 3 clearances, 8 HO (HOTA 12%) in 82% GT. Howard was dropped for his efforts.)

 

[Sintiger]

You wonder what figures they work off. I reviewed the game and we lost clearances when Hammer rucked and won them Griff rucked. He mentioned scores from clearances and no doubt we and he was OK early, say first 10 minutes, but after that I thought Hawks really got off the chain. They scored a hand delivered goal form a Hampson tap in the 4th.

Cannot see how we win if Hampson plays.

I am not seeing it. Right now my view is that Hammer brings us slightly more than Trent knobel did but that's only because 6 disposals is better than 3

 

[tigerlove]

(Btw the Port game he was against young un Dougal Howard who had 8 disposals (6 k & 2 h) @ 75% DE, 82mtrs gained, 2 marks, 3 clearances, 8 HO (HOTA 12%) in 82% GT. Howard was dropped for his efforts.)

Mumford: 4.7 tackles, 1 contested mark, 10.7 disposals, 7.3 contested possessions, 3.1 clearances
Gawn: 2.7 tackles, 2.3 contested mark, 15 disposals, 8.9 contested possessions, 3.1 clearances
Grundy (22yo): 4.2 tackles, 0.7 contested mark, 16.5 disposals, 9.0 contested possessions, 3.2 clearances
Howard (20yo, 2 gamer): 4 tackles, 0 contested mark, 8.5 disposals, 5.5 contested possessions, 1.5 clearances
Hampson: 1.7 tackles, 0.8 contested mark, 7.7 disposals, 4.0 contested possessions, 1.5 clearances

 

[tigertim]

Actually Trent averaged 6 disposals a game in his career and even more in his time as a Tiger @ 7.3.

Hampy averages 8 over his career and virtually 8 (7.9) as a Tiger.

 

[leon]

Yep, in effect, he efficiently disposed of his 1 and only kick for the game. I'm impressed.

He's in there for the hit-outs obviously. They/we clearly know his disposal skills are 'ordinary,' thus instructed to get the ball off by hand asap and kick minimally. If you look closely, is developing a good understanding with Dusty who runs by him. I think you might agree it makes sense to give it off to Dusty whenever feasible. Some of his handballs were, in this context, quick and useful; being short or close HB is fine as long as to a free team-mate.