SBS AFL Story and St Kilda players sexual assault allegations [Merged]

[Rampaging_Richo]

Struggle - were you the guy that I took a massive hanger on, and then slotted it from 50m Who am I kidding ;D

Big Ads was a bit of a freak! If not for some constant injuries back in the mid 1990's he would have kicked a heap more goals. How he never played at AFL level is beyond me.

When he was younger he was a very athletic CHF. In fact I think that Mick Malthouse when coaching the Doggies gave Ads the flick from the Doggies and he never had another crack at VFL level.

He would miss the easiest of shots but then kick these helicopter punts from up against the boundry and thread them thru the middle.

Bags of 6 was a regular Saturday for Ads.

 

[Ellyse]

This is getting pathetic-how many more women are going to claim rape and/or sexual assault by footballers???????????????????????????????

Innocent until proven guilty-and I'm tipping none of the players will be proven guilty.

I feel sorry for the players and their families. :'(

 

[tigerman]

He would miss the easiest of shots but then kick these helicopter punts from up against the boundry and thread them thru the middle.

Sounds like Richo's twin brother.

 

[Harry]

This is getting pathetic-how many more women are going to claim rape and/or sexual assault by footballers???????????????????????????????

Innocent until proven guilty-and I'm tipping none of the players will be proven guilty.

I feel sorry for the players and their families. :'(

Thats a bit harsh............especially coming from a female.

You can't make comments like this when you don't know the facts.

Reality is rape is a part of every society.....it always has been and always will be, like it or not....just like any other crime.

Footballers are not immune to this..........they are a part of society and some will always stray.

Let's not quickly jump to their defense just because they are footballers.

Reading posts on sainsantional was a bit disturbing......most made comments assuming the 2 guys were not guilty.

 

[shawry]

My seniments exactly Harry. Was just about to post something similar. Well said.

 

[Walster]

This is ridiculous! The AFL have been raping football for years now and no one has said a word.

 

[Harry]

I knew we'd see eye to eye eventually shawry.

Back to the saintsaional forum....it was very disturbing and disgusting to see most posters make a song and dance about how they should stick together and support the boys and how this episode will make the club stronger.

I would have thought that people would hope that justice is served, one way or the other, but all these people were concerned about was defending the players and patting each other on the back how the club is treating the situation and how memberships have been increasing since the incident.

Some people need a grasp of reality, because if football and their precious club is all they are concerned about at the expense of justice then they need a hard look at themselves in the mirror..........at the end of the day, its only a game.

 

[Ellyse]

I apologise if my previous post offended

 

[Rosy]

Not offended Ellyse....more saddened I think.  There are far more imortant issues here than sport.
If a Tiger player performed such acts I'd have zero tolerance for him no matter who it was.

 

[CanbTiger]

.....
Do not say disgusting downgrading things like that until there is any evidence that these players have done anything wrong!

Have you ever thought that some people that read or post on this board, may either know or be related to one of the players?? or Know their relatives?

These are only allegations, so keep the fkn stupid wankerish comments till IF they are found guilty.
....

gOtigers:

You badly misinterpret my post for at no stage did I suggest Milne and Montagna were guilty of any charge.

My point was that irrespective of whether they were charged/found guilty of rape, the Saints players made a MAJOR, MAJOR mistake last Sunday.

Booze, casual sex & partner swapping after a FAMILY day & then stating on SEN the next day you have little time for girlfriends was arrogant & stupid imo

Even if cleared of wrongdoing, the players jeopardized sponsorship dollars & provided a significant unwanted distraction for all at St Kilda in what looked to be a ground-breakng year. Very dumb in my book…….

Interesting you found my directive the boys put it away “disgusting downgrading", but accept references to sexual intercourse ("fkn") and masturbation ("wankerish").

 

[CanbTiger]

Sorry for the second post but have been busy these past few days and unable to post on this issue.

I reject the claim that because these are allegations there will be no damage for the AFL. George Pell was cleared of wrongdoing but I still hear snide remarks about sexual abuse allegations involving him to this day.

It seems whenever there are high profile assault allegations, the mud sticks no matter what the outcome.

Quite honestly, I’ve been amazed at the publicity surrounding these latest claims. Those on SBS for example- there’s no police evidence, no medical evidence and no corroborative evidence, yet Channel 10 news presented them as virtual truth.

The other day I had to phone the local ABC after a Melbourne commentator “inadvertently” mentioned Saints players were facing “rape charges”. An hour later, and only after I phoned, they managed to correct their mistake!.

To suggest, as some academics do, that few people would manufacture allegations of rape is garbage IMHO. I know people that work in family law firms who hear false allegations of sexual assault and child abuse every week.

The allegers know it will assist their case and trot out their allegations. Clearly, if there’s sufficient motivation and a goal to be had (which can often include just plain retribution), allegations of sexual assault become not so hard to make.

(Note: I’m not at all casting any aspersions on the motivations and nature of the allegations facing the Saints players with those remarks whatsoever)

Personally, I think there should be legal reform to prevent public disclosure of these allegations. I see no reason for the public to know such details, other than if we were potential witnesses, and in that circumstance the name and occupation of the accused would be irrelevant

Further, there’s no excuse for the veiled mud-slinging that occurred on SBS the other night. As Redford says, incredibly poor journalism by all concerned imo- One wonders if similar allegations against a TV executive would receive such salacious exposure?

Finally, as mentioned in another post, I entirely reject the media’s attempts to pin any culpability on the AFL for these allegations. I am yet to see any information suggesting the incidence of rape allegations against AFL players is greater than in the general community and in the absence of such information offer the League my full support.

I would be strongly disappointed if any supporter or sponsor was sufficiently spooked by these allegations to proffer anything other than full support for the Code and its Clubs.

 

[Rosy]

a Melbourne commentator “inadvertently” mentioned Saints players were facing “rape charges”.

Didn't the police actually say the the situation had changed from the original assault investigation to a rape investigation after a day or two? I'm sure I heard that.

 

[CanbTiger]

They did rosy, but the boys aren't charged with anything yet.

Sorry, the way I said it's a little unclear.

What the commentator actually said was that there wasn't a lot of attention on Latham's gaffe because of "rape charges" involving 2 St Kilda players.

Put that way, the information is incorrect.

 

[Al Bundy]

I in no way condone any assualt type behaviour or rape. I wish to question the morals & legal responisbllity of the girls now reporting their stories who have been paid out in what seems to be a confidential settlement. They seem at the time willing to take the money & keep quiet instead of having the player prosecuted. I am not sure if they would be in breach of contract & are liable to be sued now looking at it from the other side's point of view.

 

[Rosy]

Where did you hear they'd been paid out Al? Isn't the case still under investigation? Or do you mean the girl in SA a few years ago?

 

[jb03]

Al,

With regards to the Hueskes Burgoyne case, there was not one quote or reference to the girls, hence the story did not originate from them. We have no knowledge that the payoff of the $200,000 required a lifetime of silence from the girls.

Can't believe how many people are blaming the girls in all these cases.

IN the Stkilda case, if the girls were 'good time girls' and football groupies, then someone must have really crossed the line of decency if these girls felt so aggrieved as to lay a complaint with police. Even further, if these allegations are making StKilda stronger as a group, they should orchestrate some girls to make more allegations - what a bond the sainters would have then!

Is the rape of a nun a more serious crime than the rape of a prostitute??

IMO rape is rape.

 

[CanbTiger]

Excellent points jb03- I’ve wondered the same thing about the Saints case and the motivations of the girls.

I’m actually interested as to how much the general public and players know about the offence of sexual assault/ rape.

I think a lot of people have a mental picture of rape as a female victim begging and struggling to be freed while her male attacker uses his strength to overpower her. This is far too narrow a picture.

Firstly, males can be victims of sexual assault and it amazes me how many people (often women) deny this fact. Some Rape Crisis Centres refuse to accept male victims amazingly!.

Secondly, rape can exist even in situations where a victim has not expressly said no. There are cases where victims do not openly object but the perpetrator is still guilty as they showed reckless indifference to whether consent existed.

For example, a victim may be asleep or unconscious or drunk and not able to say no. The victim may believe the perpetrator is someone else and accept intercourse in that mistaken belief.

They may have consented to a particular type of intercourse but not another. Alternatively, they may have retracted their consent to intercourse midway.

Finally, the victim may not even have the mental capacity to provide consent (allegations in the Daily Telegraph recently suggested upwards of four league players may have raped a severely disabled girl).

Past actions and acceptance levels of a victim have little bearing- the fact he/she is a street walker, offered sex on multiple occasions previously or is married/ engaged/ partnered to the perpetrator generally has minor effect. In fact, persons known to the victim actually perform the vast majority of sexual assaults within Australia.

I hope that given the promiscuity and high levels of alcohol consumed by SOME AFL players, their schooling about the scope of rape and respect for women discusses these aspects of the crime and not just the commonly held view of what the offence constitutes.

 

[jb03]

canbtiger

well put. ditto for me everything you said.

As Derryn Hinch said on radio during the week, why do footballers, or anyone for that matter have to be councelled about rape. What is there to be councelled about. Everyone (should) know rape is a crime.

 

[Al Bundy]

Rosy.. I was going on the Sa case years ago that just happened to come out aswell ...

Some here have misunderstood what point I am stating. All I am saying that it was reported they got paid out $200000. I am not privy to what happened.

That raised the question to me that IF it was some sort of hushed up payment for a victim's silence (they should keep their silence as per their legal terms of agreement) but then if they felt strongly they should about what happened to them they should not have accepted the settlement. If they break their silence they could be sued for breach of contract under law. I believe no person who is a victim should accept any money for their silence as it deos nothing for the pain they will suffer, the criminal will end up maybe doing it again that why criminal charges should be pursued to avoid further victims.

jb03 The point you make of asking me of a nun or a prostitute is going way off tap and totally irrelevant to what I was saying.  Read my first line previous. Rape is rape. A woman is a woman being blunt here. Also male can be rape victim as well and people should not be niave to this happening. Please understand the point I am making.  Also I am not blaming the girls here either as you point out.

I don't agree that things like this should be in place to protect people & if true that rape had occurred then they should have pressed charges.

People must remember (Dermie said on the footy show) they are predators out there that could setup others for the fall to extort money.l (AND NO.. NOT SAYING THE SAINTS GIRL DID THIS) but it is possible people do this to others.

So people know where I am coming from I have a daughter and my biggest fear is when she becomes of age & starts going out there, I pray this will never happen to her.

I have just read in the age that that particular girl(SA case) did want to press charges but no evidence to prosecute them & then seeked civil action. Not sure of any hush payment, but wanted to raise the issue of contract that might be drawn to silence people with money

 

[Ellyse]

Innocent until proven guilty-and I'm tipping none of the players will be proven guilty.

Knew it