Round 7 - The other games

[Panthera Tigris]

Who would we hate seeing win the premiership more in the next couple of seasons......Collingpoop or the Scum from Lygon St?? I hope like hell that it doesn't happen but got a very bad feeling. The dirty nappies winning in 2008 was bad enough for me (As an 80's child I hated Hawthorn and all of the smug bandwaggon jumpers from a very young age), but the other two....

It's depressing enough to see where we are at the moment. Just adds insult to injury when you see our biggest rivals and where they're at. Particularly when we've seen the scum rising from the dreggs and us continuing to to tread liquid crap in the lower reaches. ???

 

[Ridley]

Who would we hate seeing win the premiership more in the next couple of seasons......Collingpoop or the Scum from Lygon St?? I hope like hell that it doesn't happen but got a very bad feeling. The dirty nappies winning in 2008 was bad enough for me (As an 80's child I hated Hawthorn and all of the smug bandwaggon jumpers from a very young age), but the other two....

It's depressing enough to see where we are at the moment. Just adds insult to injury when you see our biggest rivals and where they're at. Particularly when we've seen the scum rising from the dreggs and us continuing to to tread liquid crap in the lower reaches. ???

Yeah very tough question PT. It doesn't get much worse for a Richmond fan. Us being *smile* and Carlton and Collingwood looking very strong.

If I had to choose one of them to win I'd rather Collingscum. Carlscum have cheated throughout their entire history, including the tanking of recent times so *smile* em. But please, just let anyone other than those two or Essenscum (not that they're anywhere near it at the moment) win it.

 

[Ridley]

That Jacobs looked quite good in the ruck for Carlton tonight. He can actually mark and kick the ball which is something Graham and Simmonds struggle to come to grips with. Browne can't be much better if he can't get a game the way we are going at the moment.

Unsure of the contractual situations but if they were available Jacobs and Hampson should be two we are targeting with relatively big offers in the PSD.

 

[tigerjoe]

Yeah very tough question PT. It doesn't get much worse for a Richmond fan. Us being sh!t and Carlton and Collingwood looking very strong.

If I had to choose one of them to win I'd rather Collingscum. Carlscum have cheated throughout their entire history, including the tanking of recent times so *smile* em. But please, just let anyone other than those two or Essenscum (not that they're anywhere near it at the moment) win it.

AMEN!

 

[ZeroGame]

Kosi??

GC

 

[tannerztigers]

Saints to win every quarter at 2.30 is a steal. Expect them to win by 6 goals.

Yeah it was a steal ... a steal for TAB from my wallet.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Kosi??

Have always been a big rap for this guy but he hasn't done much since early last year. Wondering now whether his best is behind him.

 

[wayne]

Saints are struggling a bit with their balance without Reiwoldt. Carlton aren't doing too badly but they are far, far away from premiership material.

When they turn it on they've shown they can match anyone. Geelong was a big scalp two weeks ago, the Saints as well. The Pies smashed them but the Blues have shown in the last couple of years that they can beat them. God knows how the Bombers beat the Blues though!! ???

 

[RedanTiger]

yeah if you got the picks available to do it...

Posters keep going on about the high draft picks Carlscum got and forget Betts, Joseph, Garlett, Jacobs, Hampson, White, O'Hailpin have been rookie picks.

Richmond can rebuild with good recruiting at ALL picks, not rely on high national draft picks and waste rookie picks.

 

[hellenictiger]

I went to the game last night and st kilda just got out matched. Russell is a good player, he reads the game well and may have cost Thornton. The blues had structure going forward where as the saints never went forward to any system as they could if reiwoldt was presenting.
Carlton look like a strong team, they have a good defence as well as attack and their mids are quality.

 

[Big Cat Lover]

Posters keep going on about the high draft picks Carlscum got and forget Betts, Joseph, Garlett, Jacobs, Hampson, White, O'Hailpin have been rookie picks.

Richmond can rebuild with good recruiting at ALL picks, not rely on high national draft picks and waste rookie picks.

Take out Judd, Murphy, Gibbs, Kreuzer and those guys you named are just good players. Having those high draft picks running through the middle helps a little. What number was father-son pick Waite touted to go? Yarran is starting to show why he went so high also.

 

[Tygrys]

Posters keep going on about the high draft picks Carlscum got and forget Betts, Joseph, Garlett, Jacobs, Hampson, White, O'Hailpin have been rookie picks.

Richmond can rebuild with good recruiting at ALL picks, not rely on high national draft picks and waste rookie picks.

We don't forget, but how good would Carlton be without Judd, Murphy, Gibbs, Kruezner etc? Sure we can rebuild and we will, but the question is to what level - to a genuine finals contenders or a middling team fighting it out for seventh or eigth spot with no realistic chance of ever winning a premiership. Not to believe that high picks aren't an essential ingredient for long term success when bottoming out, despite all the recent evidence to the contrary, is frankly delusional.

 

[GoodOne]

Not to believe that high picks aren't an essential ingredient for long term success when bottoming out, despite all the recent evidence to the contrary, is frankly delusional.

What evidence? Most of the successful teams of the last decade haven't really bottomed out. When, for example, have Geelong bottomed out? I can't see why its delusional to think that you need to drag along the bottom of the ladder to be successful. Hawthorn is the only recent example, and its beginning to look an exception to me.

 

[Tygrys]

What evidence? Most of the successful teams of the last decade haven't really bottomed out. When, for example, have Geelong bottomed out? I can't see why its delusional to think that you need to drag along the bottom of the ladder to be successful. Hawthorn is the only recent example, and its beginning to look an exception to me.

Well let's see. We have St Kilda that bottomed out with high draft picks. In the last six years it has played five finals series and was level pegging in last years grand final at the 24th minute mark. They could easily have won. And there is Hawthorn and their premiership in 2008 of course (an uncomfortable fact for your argument but still). And as for Carlton and Melbourne they have both left us for dead. We don't know how far they'll go, but bearing in mind the precedent of the other two clubs, and the promise they are showing, it's not outrageous to think that they might eventually follow in St Kilda and Hawthorns footsteps. At the very least until they can't be discounted as failures at this very, very early stage. So the strike rate in terms of finals appearances and premierships for the bottoming out clubs with high draft picks so far is pretty impressive.

As for Geelong - a few number one worth father-son draft picks plus a fortress like home ground advantage enjoyed by the interstate clubs ie like those 'most successful clubs' you quoted goes some way to explaining their success. Also those 'most successful clubs' also enjoy other advantages we just don't have (or is it simply a coincidence that only one Melbourne club has won the premiership during the last decade?), Still it's nice that the Wallet and Miller philosophy of not needing to bottom out and that all draft picks are basically the same regardless of where they come from still has some die heart fans.

Anyhow it's all academic, we just aren't going to get those picks because of the parasite clubs coming in. Sure we'll rebuild but again to what level. Not getting those high draft picks does matter.

 

[feisty tige]

I tipped the blues to win. The only game I missed was the Brisbane Freo game...

In regards to us and our team getting better, I think finally we might have a base core group to work with AFTER this draft, however then we will have to work hard to build a team comparable to any of the teams above us at the moment.

 

[WesternTiger]

Any one going to question his (Scully's) kicking? Yeah it was wet but it was Masten-like last night. Many are quick to give Martin or the chimp a wack if they miss a target or 3.

Well, well, well! Anyone looked at the Martin thread recently?!

 

[GoodOne]

Well let's see. We have St Kilda that bottomed out with high draft picks. In the last six years it has played five finals series and was level pegging in last years grand final at the 24th minute mark. They could easily have won. And there is Hawthorn and their premiership in 2008 of course (an uncomfortable fact for your argument but still). And as for Carlton and Melbourne they have both left us for dead. We don't know how far they'll go, but bearing in mind the precedent of the other two clubs, and the promise they are showing, it's not outrageous to think that they might eventually follow in St Kilda and Hawthorns footsteps. At the very least until they can't be discounted as failures at this very, very early stage. So the strike rate in terms of finals appearances and premierships for the bottoming out clubs with high draft picks so far is pretty impressive.

As for Geelong - a few number one worth father-son draft picks plus a fortress like home ground advantage enjoyed by the interstate clubs ie like those 'most successful clubs' you quoted goes some way to explaining their success. Also those 'most successful clubs' also enjoy other advantages we just don't have (or is it simply a coincidence that only one Melbourne club has won the premiership during the last decade?), Still it's nice that the Wallet and Miller philosophy of not needing to bottom out and that all draft picks are basically the same regardless of where they come from still has some die heart fans.

Anyhow it's all academic, we just aren't going to get those picks because of the parasite clubs coming in. Sure we'll rebuild but again to what level. Not getting those high draft picks does matter.

Yes but to me the definition of success is winning a premiership. Saints haven't done so yet. As for Melbourne and Carlton, they've left us for dead but that's not because they have bottomed out and we haven't. We've had just as many high picks as these teams over the journey. Surely Melbourne and Carlton aren't examples of your proof that you have to bottom out to be successful. HArdly supports your strike rate theory of it being rather impressive. The fact is there is only one team in recent history that has won a premiership after truly bottoming out to the bottom of the ladder for any period of time, and that's Hawthorn. Yet 2 years later they are struggling back at the bottom of the ladder.

Basically your reasoning above is just a list of excuses as to why teams have won premierships; Geelong, Brisbane, Swans, West Coast, Adelaide, Port Adelaide. How many of these have bottomed out for any length of time? None.

 

[Big Cat Lover]

Yes but to me the definition of success is winning a premiership. Saints haven't done so yet. As for Melbourne and Carlton, they've left us for dead but that's not because they have bottomed out and we haven't. We've had just as many high picks as these teams over the journey. Surely Melbourne and Carlton aren't examples of your proof that you have to bottom out to be successful. HArdly supports your strike rate theory of it being rather impressive. The fact is there is only one team in recent history that has won a premiership after truly bottoming out to the bottom of the ladder for any period of time, and that's Hawthorn. Yet 2 years later they are struggling back at the bottom of the ladder.

Basically your reasoning above is just a list of excuses as to why teams have won premierships; Geelong, Brisbane, Swans, West Coast, Adelaide, Port Adelaide. How many of these have bottomed out for any length of time? None.

Have many had such a poor starting point as what Richmond seem to have? You think the interstate teams have other advantages that Melb based teams don't? You think we can turn it around in 2-3 years with mid to high range draft picks? Will we lose some of our young talent in the interim? What sort of "success" strike rate will we need with current and future draft picks? I'll be amazed if all of Martin/Griffiths/Astbury/Taylor/Nason/Vickery/Webberly make it. If we get 1 in 3 becoming regular senior players we will be doing well. How many years do we need to have great strike rates with future draft picks to get some success? Surely carlton & melb have better cattle to work with than we do? A premiership is never easy but some consistent finals appearances would be appreciated.
If success = premiership basically there are fifteen teams that fail each year and you seem to think finishing second or third or 4th is just as bad as finishing 14th or 15th, or 16th? Saints, Carlton, Melb are all a hell of a lot closer to a premiership than us.

 

[GoodOne]

Have many had such a poor starting point as what Richmond seem to have? You think the interstate teams have other advantages that Melb based teams don't? You think we can turn it around in 2-3 years with mid to high range draft picks? Will we lose some of our young talent in the interim? What sort of "success" strike rate will we need with current and future draft picks? I'll be amazed if all of Martin/Griffiths/Astbury/Taylor/Nason/Vickery/Webberly make it. If we get 1 in 3 becoming regular senior players we will be doing well. How many years do we need to have great strike rates with future draft picks to get some success? Surely carlton & melb have better cattle to work with than we do? A premiership is never easy but some consistent finals appearances would be appreciated.
If success = premiership basically there are fifteen teams that fail each year and you seem to think finishing second or third or 4th is just as bad as finishing 14th or 15th, or 16th? Saints, Carlton, Melb are all a hell of a lot closer to a premiership than us.

huh? I am not suggesting any of what you are saying. What I am saying is that there is very little proof that bottoming out wins you premierships. Prove me wrong.

 

[Big Cat Lover]

huh? I am not suggesting any of what you are saying. What I am saying is that there is very little proof that bottoming out wins you premierships. Prove me wrong.

So what does win premierships? 15 teams are failing every year. Crazy to think that having more and better selections in the draft is not an advantage. Do you think those teams that have "bottomed out" are closer than us? Do you think they are likely to have sustained success? Surely you must admit that Kreuzer, Murphy, Gibbs, Judd are in their top 6 or 7 most important players? Scully & Trengove are leading mids already at Melb!!! James McDonald is now there 4th or 5th best mid. Top draft picks seem to be having more immediate and greater impacts.