Re: Adam Goodes

[Coburgtiger]

Re: Does the AFL discriminate?

I don't recall that. Please provide a link so I can see the context.

http://puntroadend.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=48353.1635

page 110. I don't know whether the discussion of the imaginary intimidation/fear is even relevant, but it seems to have been a sticking point over the last couple of pages.

 

[KnightersRevenge]

I had a poster tell me to GAGF in a PM a couple of days ago. Is he sexist? Is he rude and obnoxious? Is he a bully? Does he dislike me? Over time my experience with him would suggest a bit of all of them. Is he scared of me? I doubt it very much. That's why I don't get your response to my simple claim Knighters. The only fact is that the person said it to me. The rest is only assumption and guesswork. Same with bulk-lot claiming people are scared of Goodes imo.

My point was only that I think you seem to laser focus on words sometimes and lose sight of the bigger picture. In most cases I agree with you that you should make people stand by their statements. But words aren't facts. All lies contain words but often misrepresent the facts. By the same token I think people sometimes hide behind words to avoid scrutiny. That is the bread and butter of politicians for instance. So while you may be correct that no-one has said they are "scared" of Goodes it may still be true. Or "scared" may be the wrong word. Perhaps "threatened" is better. Threatened because we have rarely had a spokesperson for Indigenous issues that can command headlines and news bulletins and both covers of the newspaper the way Goodes can.

I can't speak for your abuser in any way. I can't imagine some of the awful stuff that must come your way and I expect as is the trend that it is far worse simply because of your gender. So yes i imagine he is sexist, but like the racists I bet if asked he'd say he wasn't.

 

[Rosy]

Re: Does the AFL discriminate?

http://puntroadend.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=48353.1635

page 110. I don't know whether the discussion of the imaginary intimidation/fear is even relevant, but it seems to have been a sticking point over the last couple of pages.

Can you please quote the post you're referring to. I have several posts on that page.

 

[Rosy]

Re: Does the AFL discriminate?

Intimidation: Synonyms: frightening, menacing, terrifying, scaring, alarming, terrorization, terrorizing, cowing, subduing, daunting, unnerving;

Seeing Adam said the dance was supposed to be intimidating and people are claiming others are scared would you say he was successful in his actions?

 

[Rosy]

My point was only that I think you seem to laser focus on words sometimes and lose sight of the bigger picture. ......

Fair enough. You ask why I am always so literal. I'd say I'm a fairly literal person. I don't see that as a problem. We all have our own posting styles and points of view. It would probably be dull here otherwise. I just find it a bit odd that you question mine. It makes me feel a bit like I'm still at school being assessed. My English teacher used to highlight them as well, especially in regard to critical thinking and debating, but in a very positive way. What a surprise. :hihi

 

[KnightersRevenge]

Fair enough. You ask why I am always so literal. I'd say I'm a fairly literal person. I don't see that as a problem. We all have our own posting styles and points of view. It would probably be dull here otherwise. I just find it a bit odd that you question mine. It makes me feel a bit like I'm still at school being assessed. My English teacher used to highlight them as well, especially in regard to critical thinking and debating, but in a very positive way. What a surprise. :hihi

Do you feel that I do that? Assess you? I don't mean it to be intrusive or badgering. I can see how you would get that though. It's been a heated debate at times and we have been on opposite sides for all of it.

 

[Coburgtiger]

Re: Does the AFL discriminate?

Can you please quote the post you're referring to. I have several posts on that page.

I did quote it in my first post?

Seeing Adam said the dance was supposed to be intimidating and people are claiming others are scared would you say he was successful in his actions?

Rosy, I'm not reentering that exact same discussion we've had ad nauseum, I maintain that not a single person was intimidated or scared.

You were very forceful that no one was claiming he was scary, but also claiming that he was intimidating, which doesn't make a lot of sense.

I don't think people are scared of Goodes. I certainly haven't seen it claimed. Have you?

The AFL encouraged every indigenous player to do the so called war dance. How they can actively support crowd intimidation from any players is beyond me.

 

[Rosy]

Re: Does the AFL discriminate?

.........

Rosy, I'm not reentering that exact same discussion we've had ad nauseum, I maintain that not a single person was intimidated or scared.

.....

The dance was meant to be intimidating. He said so himself. Adam's words not mine. You seem to be ignoring that fact. I haven't claimed anyone was intimidated or scared. I reckon it was laughable, arrogant and rude more than intimidating and scary and it backfired on him big time. He chose to aim his behaviour at a certain demographic...ie aiming it at opposition fans when he wouldn't aim it at the opposition team due to an indigenous player in it.

......
You were very forceful that no one was claiming he was scary, but also claiming that he was intimidating, which doesn't make a lot of sense.

Do you mean I was very forceful in questioning a claim suggesting others found it scary by saying I hadn't heard or read anyone say that.

I have never once heard or read that Adam scares people.

Where does that claim nobody thought he was scared? I doubt they were and I've said so. Interesting you focused on my reply rather than the original post suggesting people were scared seeing you actually disagree with that. :blah

 

[Scoop]

Re: Does the AFL discriminate?

The dance was meant to be intimidating. He said so himself. Adam's words not mine. You seem to be ignoring that fact. I haven't claimed anyone was intimidated or scared. I reckon it was laughable, arrogant and rude more than intimidating and scary and it backfired on him big time. He chose to aim his behaviour at a certain demographic...ie aiming it at opposition fans when he wouldn't aim it at the opposition team due to an indigenous player in it.

Do you mean I was very forceful in questioning a claim suggesting others found it scary by saying I hadn't heard or read anyone say that.

Where does that claim nobody thought he was scared? I doubt they were and I've said so. Interesting you focused on my reply rather than the original post suggesting people were scared seeing you actually disagree with that. :blah

A interesting description of a cultural dance that hold significance to a race.

 

[Coburgtiger]

Re: Does the AFL discriminate?

The dance was meant to be intimidating. He said so himself. Adam's words not mine. You seem to be ignoring that fact. I haven't claimed anyone was intimidated or scared. I reckon it was laughable, arrogant and rude more than intimidating and scary and it backfired on him big time. He chose to aim his behaviour at a certain demographic...ie aiming it at opposition fans when he wouldn't aim it at the opposition team due to an indigenous player in it.

Do you mean I was very forceful in questioning a claim suggesting others found it scary by saying I hadn't heard or read anyone say that.

Where does that claim nobody thought he was scared? I doubt they were and I've said so. Interesting you focused on my reply rather than the original post suggesting people were scared seeing you actually disagree with that. :blah

So. The dance was not intimidating then.

Good.

 

[Rosy]

Re: Does the AFL discriminate?

So. The dance was not intimidating then.

Good.

I'm not judging that. I very much doubt it as I said but I wasn't there to know how it felt. Arrogant, rude, confrontational, attention seeking...yeah maybe a bit of all of those. Fact is Adam said it was meant to be intimidating. Seems he failed and he's paid a price.

 

[Coburgtiger]

Re: Does the AFL discriminate?

I'm not judging that. I very much doubt it as I said but I wasn't there to know how it felt. Arrogant, rude, confrontational, attention seeking...yeah maybe a bit of all of those. Fact is Adam said it was meant to be intimidating. Seems he failed and he's paid a price.

Fact is, he said it was meant to be a celebration of culture.

We should just call all those kids who danced in the dream time pre game and let them know their celebration was arrogant, rude, attention seeking, and laughable.

Let the kiwis know that about their haka, too.

 

[Rosy]

Re: Does the AFL discriminate?

Fact is, he said it was meant to be a celebration of culture.

We should just call all those kids who danced in the dream time pre game and let them know their celebration was arrogant, rude, attention seeking, and laughable.

Let the kiwis know that about their haka, too.

I don't know the circumstances of the kids' dance. Was it aimed at opposition fans and meant to intimidate? Do the Kiwis do it mid-game to stick it up the opposition supporters? Goodes might have said what you claim with the benefit of hindsight. Understandable when his original claim was it was meant to intimidate. Whoops.

 

[tigersnake]

Re: Does the AFL discriminate?

Arrogant, rude, confrontational, attention seeking...

apart from that it was a pretty good dance

 

[KnightersRevenge]

Re: Does the AFL discriminate?

I'm not judging that. I very much doubt it as I said but I wasn't there to know how it felt. Arrogant, rude, confrontational, attention seeking...yeah maybe a bit of all of those. Fact is Adam said it was meant to be intimidating. Seems he failed and he's paid a price.

[EDIT]

Geez that seems a very cold and unfeeling thing to say. Do you think it is justified that a genuine champion of our game and spokesperson on indigenous issues has been hounded out of the game? That seems a bit unfair to me. We can all cherry-pick things Adam has said and pretend that they are the definitive position. But that would seem pointless surely. I'd wager the vast majority are kind and generous. If it were your daughter (let's say she was a netball champion) and she had chosen to use her profile to highlight sexism and was hounded by bogans in the local paper and over the boundary would you be this unkind? Would you say, well she brought it on herself?

 

[Rosy]

Re: Does the AFL discriminate?

[EDIT]

Geez that seems a very cold and unfeeling thing to say. Do you think it is justified that a genuine champion of our game and spokesperson on indigenous issues has been hounded out of the game? That seems a bit unfair to me. We can all cherry-pick things Adam has said and pretend that they are the definitive position. But that would seem pointless surely. I'd wager the vast majority are kind and generous. If it were your daughter (let's say she was a netball champion) and she had chosen to use her profile to highlight sexism and was hounded by bogans in the local paper and over the boundary would you be this unkind? Would you say, well she brought it on herself?

Do you think overall Adam's dance was a success for him? He stepped out of the game. He chose not to do a lap of honour. He chose to withdraw from awards. If my daughter tried to intimidate others and chose her target to get in the faces of opposition over the boundary I would think she brought it upon herself for sure. I don't think in the midst of a game, while on court is the place to do it.

 

[KnightersRevenge]

Re: Does the AFL discriminate?

Do you think overall Adam's dance was a success for him? He stepped out of the game. He chose not to do a lap of honour. He chose to withdraw from awards. If my daughter tried to intimidate others and chose her target to get in the faces of opposition over the boundary I would think she brought it upon herself for sure. I don't think in the midst of a game, while on court is the place to do it.

Actually I completely agree Rosy. I thought the choice Adam made was a poor one. I think if he had chosen to do it to his own supporters after a goal and that they had been clued in and had a supportive response planned it would have been infinitely more positive and much better recieved. But I've never walked in his shoes and there may be much better reasons why he chose that time and place. That was one man, and one choice. The choices of hundreds of drongoes to pretend their ongoing, escalating acts of bogan lairising was anything other than race baiting is transparent to me.

 

[Conan]

Re: Does the AFL discriminate?

I'm not judging that. I very much doubt it as I said but I wasn't there to know how it felt. Arrogant, rude, confrontational, attention seeking...yeah maybe a bit of all of those. Fact is Adam said it was meant to be intimidating. Seems he failed and he's paid a price.

Pretty harsh. How should he have responded to the constant booing? Apologise for offending people with his honesty? I find it sad you feel that way about him.

Mitchell Johnson made some pretty revealing comments recently about the impact of crowd abuse on your mental state. I'll see if I can find them.

 

[Rosy]

Re: Does the AFL discriminate?

Pretty harsh. How should he have responded to the constant booing? Apologise for offending people with his honesty? I find it sad you feel that way about him.

Mitchell Johnson made some pretty revealing comments recently about the impact of crowd abuse on your mental state. I'll see if I can find them.

What exactly was Adam's "honesty"? I for one second wouldn't guess how he should have responded. I can only discuss the way he did respond.

Don't feel sad for me :hihi We all risk facing consequences for our actions and have to deal with them as we see fit. Agree? I am sure crowd abuse can affect your mental state. Depends on the person I suppose. It would certainly affect me. Then again I'd never get in their faces with implied acts of violence meant to intimidate.

If it was a celebration of culture why aim it at the opposition in a way of saying "this is war come and get us"? To me a celebration is positive and embracing. Adam certainly wasn't that.

This is Adam's quote. "It's a war cry, it's a battle. It's supposed to intimidate you, it's supposed to say, 'This is who we are. Come at us.' "

To me that is deliberately aimed at inciting the opposition. Do you disagree and if not why? Of all Aboriginal dances why pick that one rather than a more positive and general one? One that included his own team and/or supporters as well? Is Indigenous week meant to segregate?

 

[mld]

Racist comment deleted