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Re: Adam Goodes
- Thread starter iLoVeNeWmAn
- Start date
Re: Does the AFL discriminate?
Unfortunately all of your questions have been previously answered much more eloquently by the the likes or knighters and coburgtiger. Kinda pointless re hashing it when you appear to have little empathy for the points they raise.
rosy23 said:
Unfortunately all of your questions have been previously answered much more eloquently by the the likes or knighters and coburgtiger. Kinda pointless re hashing it when you appear to have little empathy for the points they raise.
Re: Does the AFL discriminate?
Goodes said on the night it was "a battle cry at you guys".
"You guys" meaning whitey.
IanG said:
Goodes said on the night it was "a battle cry at you guys".
"You guys" meaning whitey.
Re: Does the AFL discriminate?
A battle cry against those who yell racist abuse and boo incessantly. Goodes has always said since becoming AOTY.
People don't like black fellas standing up directly against racism - it makes it harder for us white folks to pretend it doesn't exist. And that makes us uncomfortable.
So then we have to rationalise it by saying " I don't like that black fella - not because I'm racist, but just because I don't like the way he goes about things."
LeeToRainesToRoach said:
A battle cry against those who yell racist abuse and boo incessantly. Goodes has always said since becoming AOTY.
People don't like black fellas standing up directly against racism - it makes it harder for us white folks to pretend it doesn't exist. And that makes us uncomfortable.
So then we have to rationalise it by saying " I don't like that black fella - not because I'm racist, but just because I don't like the way he goes about things."
Re: Does the AFL discriminate?
People who yell racist abuse are routinely thrown out of the ground. It's not illegal to boo (yet).
antman said:
People who yell racist abuse are routinely thrown out of the ground. It's not illegal to boo (yet).
Re: Does the AFL discriminate?
Sums it up pretty well.
Then there's those who say,
'Oh, he's allowed to oppose racism, but he should do it quietly and politely like Cyril.'
Racism is inherently uncomfortable. We shouldn't be allowed, as a nation, to sit comfortably in our chairs at home, and nod along to 'We acknowledge the original owners of this land...' but then get up in arms about an indigenous person actually doing that.
And in the end, it was a freaking dance. If we can't handle that level of discomfort, we really have no idea.
antman said:
Sums it up pretty well.
Then there's those who say,
'Oh, he's allowed to oppose racism, but he should do it quietly and politely like Cyril.'
Racism is inherently uncomfortable. We shouldn't be allowed, as a nation, to sit comfortably in our chairs at home, and nod along to 'We acknowledge the original owners of this land...' but then get up in arms about an indigenous person actually doing that.
And in the end, it was a freaking dance. If we can't handle that level of discomfort, we really have no idea.
Re: Does the AFL discriminate?
It seems he was a tad mixed up and he mis-judged the situation if he thought trying to "intimidate" and "come at us" were "nothing untoward". People did come at him and he didn't like it.
Wanting them to stand up and go "yep we see you and we acknowledge you" sounds like a personal cry for attention to me. It wasn't I doubt he wanted Carlton supporters to "come at" Indigenous Australians. I don't judge Adam Goodes or any other footballers on their race. I judge them on their actions. I don't think the football field is the place for political statements of any kind.
You continually quote me to post that quote Ian without adding your own opinion to the discussion. I've acknowledged there were various quotes when you've done it previously. I was referring to the one I felt was relevant. Not sure why you follow me around posting the same thing. I find it bordering on harassment.
Seeing you show such an interest in my posts I'd appreciate some answers so I know where you're coming from yourself.
What do you think Adam meant by "you" in his quote?
What do you think Adam meant by "us" in his quote?
Do you think he's differentiating between Indigenous and non-indigenous Australians?
Who did he want people to "come at", remembering this was a so called Indigenous dance not a Swans one?
What did he mean by "bring it on"?
Is that the same as "Come at us"?
Do you believe the majority of people hate Adam's race, as has been claimed, or they are more judging him and his actions personally?
If you don't wish the answer the questions then fair enough but if that's the case I'd appreciate you not continually quoting and questioning me.
IanG said:
It seems he was a tad mixed up and he mis-judged the situation if he thought trying to "intimidate" and "come at us" were "nothing untoward". People did come at him and he didn't like it.
Wanting them to stand up and go "yep we see you and we acknowledge you" sounds like a personal cry for attention to me. It wasn't I doubt he wanted Carlton supporters to "come at" Indigenous Australians. I don't judge Adam Goodes or any other footballers on their race. I judge them on their actions. I don't think the football field is the place for political statements of any kind.
You continually quote me to post that quote Ian without adding your own opinion to the discussion. I've acknowledged there were various quotes when you've done it previously. I was referring to the one I felt was relevant. Not sure why you follow me around posting the same thing. I find it bordering on harassment.
Seeing you show such an interest in my posts I'd appreciate some answers so I know where you're coming from yourself.
What do you think Adam meant by "you" in his quote?
What do you think Adam meant by "us" in his quote?
Do you think he's differentiating between Indigenous and non-indigenous Australians?
Who did he want people to "come at", remembering this was a so called Indigenous dance not a Swans one?
What did he mean by "bring it on"?
Is that the same as "Come at us"?
Do you believe the majority of people hate Adam's race, as has been claimed, or they are more judging him and his actions personally?
If you don't wish the answer the questions then fair enough but if that's the case I'd appreciate you not continually quoting and questioning me.
Re: Does the AFL discriminate?
That's fair enough imo, other than referring to people as blackfellas which I find unnecessary. Not everyone likes to be classified by the colour of their skin. It's not racist to judge an individual person on their actions and behaviour.
antman said:
That's fair enough imo, other than referring to people as blackfellas which I find unnecessary. Not everyone likes to be classified by the colour of their skin. It's not racist to judge an individual person on their actions and behaviour.
Re: Does the AFL discriminate?
Are there? News to me.
People support and oppose many things publicly. People are allowed to oppose abortion. People on soap boxes are allowed to spruik the devil. Reformed smokers are allowed to preach the evils of tobacco. Born again Christians (and 7 Day Adventists) are allowed to spruik religion.
They should all be judged on their behaviour and delivery rather than their personal beliefs or race.
Coburgtiger said:
Are there? News to me.
People support and oppose many things publicly. People are allowed to oppose abortion. People on soap boxes are allowed to spruik the devil. Reformed smokers are allowed to preach the evils of tobacco. Born again Christians (and 7 Day Adventists) are allowed to spruik religion.
They should all be judged on their behaviour and delivery rather than their personal beliefs or race.
Re: Does the AFL discriminate?
I've said this multiple times but the context of the intimate comment is related to the nature of the dance not his motivation.
So you disagree with what Winmar did?
As Conan the barbarian said as this point the questions have been answered the debate is just going round in circles. I did and have given my opinion that it wasn't done to incite the opposition or the crowd.
1. His opponents
2. Aboriginals and his teammates
3. In terms of racial equality and racism sure, in terms of football and his teammates no.
4. Opponents on the field, as I said above he's talking about the nature of the dance
5. The game
6. Yes
7. No and I've said as much but that doesn't mean the booing wasn't co-opted by racists and thus becomes persecution.
rosy23 said:
I've said this multiple times but the context of the intimate comment is related to the nature of the dance not his motivation.
So you disagree with what Winmar did?
As Conan the barbarian said as this point the questions have been answered the debate is just going round in circles. I did and have given my opinion that it wasn't done to incite the opposition or the crowd.
1. His opponents
2. Aboriginals and his teammates
3. In terms of racial equality and racism sure, in terms of football and his teammates no.
4. Opponents on the field, as I said above he's talking about the nature of the dance
5. The game
6. Yes
7. No and I've said as much but that doesn't mean the booing wasn't co-opted by racists and thus becomes persecution.
Re: Does the AFL discriminate?
Do you think what Winmar did was akin to what Goodes has done? I don't. Nicky made a personal statement, rather than a political one aimed at other people. He showed, by pointing at his skin, that he is proud of who he is. He didn't hit out at, judge, blame or confront others in any way. I admire his evident self-pride.
This is the question I was most interested in. You quoted me with some irrelevant reply when I referred to Cobugtiger discussing people being opposed to Adam's race. If you weren't just singling me out I can't see why you didn't question Coburg's actual claim instead considering you now say you don't agree with it.
Thanks for answering the questions Ian. Appreciated.
IanG said:
Do you think what Winmar did was akin to what Goodes has done? I don't. Nicky made a personal statement, rather than a political one aimed at other people. He showed, by pointing at his skin, that he is proud of who he is. He didn't hit out at, judge, blame or confront others in any way. I admire his evident self-pride.
IanG said:
IanG said:
This is the question I was most interested in. You quoted me with some irrelevant reply when I referred to Cobugtiger discussing people being opposed to Adam's race. If you weren't just singling me out I can't see why you didn't question Coburg's actual claim instead considering you now say you don't agree with it.
Thanks for answering the questions Ian. Appreciated.
Re: Does the AFL discriminate?
This discussion
Your post doesn't really refer to what Coburgtiger said and what my post you quoted was specifically responding to. I was replying to a claim that people opposed the Aboriginal race. Nothing to do with "other somewhat dirty players".
Maybe I just missed your point. It seems to me you just responded to my comment without any regard to the context or what I was referring to. Not the first time that's happened on this thread. Feel free to clarify.
(*** As Coburg has pointed out his full sentence was "You were still joining in with a mob bullying of an individual, when a significant component of that mob were opposed to Adams race, or his comments on race relations, or his celebration of his culture." I only mentioned opposed to his race rather than all of is because that is the part I had an issue with.)
IanG said:
This discussion
Coburgtiger said:
rosy23 said:
IanG said:
Your post doesn't really refer to what Coburgtiger said and what my post you quoted was specifically responding to. I was replying to a claim that people opposed the Aboriginal race. Nothing to do with "other somewhat dirty players".
Maybe I just missed your point. It seems to me you just responded to my comment without any regard to the context or what I was referring to. Not the first time that's happened on this thread. Feel free to clarify.
(*** As Coburg has pointed out his full sentence was "You were still joining in with a mob bullying of an individual, when a significant component of that mob were opposed to Adams race, or his comments on race relations, or his celebration of his culture." I only mentioned opposed to his race rather than all of is because that is the part I had an issue with.)
Re: Does the AFL discriminate?
Rosy, I know you tried to be diplomatic there, but it really is important to take that sentence as a whole, it loses its meaning as a fragment.
A significant component of that mob who were booing had some racial motivation. That doesn't mean all, or even most. Just a significant number. And of those who are booing with racial motivation, most had an issue with his cultural celebration, some had an issue with comments on race relations, and a small minority are simply racists who simply don't like aboriginal people.
In no way am I saying most of the people who booed were opposed to Adams race. I'm saying a worrying number of them booed with some sort of racial motivation. And of that group, racists formed some part.
rosy23 said:
Rosy, I know you tried to be diplomatic there, but it really is important to take that sentence as a whole, it loses its meaning as a fragment.
A significant component of that mob who were booing had some racial motivation. That doesn't mean all, or even most. Just a significant number. And of those who are booing with racial motivation, most had an issue with his cultural celebration, some had an issue with comments on race relations, and a small minority are simply racists who simply don't like aboriginal people.
In no way am I saying most of the people who booed were opposed to Adams race. I'm saying a worrying number of them booed with some sort of racial motivation. And of that group, racists formed some part.
Re: Does the AFL discriminate?
That still doesn't explain you quoting me discussing being opposed to his race with a reply about "other dirty players". In the context of the actual discussion why did you quote me? Maybe you were in a roundabout way agreeing with me with what you said. Other Indigenous players not copping the same treatment as Adam because they aren't outspoken like Adam, as you said, indicates to me it's more personal than a dislike of the race in general.
Significant does not necessarily mean majority I agree but I think that's splitting hairs a bit. How can you know any of those booing were opposed to the Aboriginal race?
IanG said:
That still doesn't explain you quoting me discussing being opposed to his race with a reply about "other dirty players". In the context of the actual discussion why did you quote me? Maybe you were in a roundabout way agreeing with me with what you said. Other Indigenous players not copping the same treatment as Adam because they aren't outspoken like Adam, as you said, indicates to me it's more personal than a dislike of the race in general.
Significant does not necessarily mean majority I agree but I think that's splitting hairs a bit. How can you know any of those booing were opposed to the Aboriginal race?
Re: Does the AFL discriminate?
Ok so a "significant number" is a bit of meaningless claim then. One person could be as significant as 10,000 if we want to be pedantic. How do you know some "simply don't like aboriginal people"? Are there any examples or is it just guesswork being posted as fact? For example do you think the 13yo girl and Eddie McGuire, who made racist comments, are opposed to the aboriginal race? To me that's a big assumption to make about anyone unless you have evidence of it. I've heard people discuss their issues with Adam's comments on race relations and his war dance but I've never heard of anyone saying they don't like aboriginals in general.
Coburgtiger said:
Ok so a "significant number" is a bit of meaningless claim then. One person could be as significant as 10,000 if we want to be pedantic. How do you know some "simply don't like aboriginal people"? Are there any examples or is it just guesswork being posted as fact? For example do you think the 13yo girl and Eddie McGuire, who made racist comments, are opposed to the aboriginal race? To me that's a big assumption to make about anyone unless you have evidence of it. I've heard people discuss their issues with Adam's comments on race relations and his war dance but I've never heard of anyone saying they don't like aboriginals in general.
