Re: Adam Goodes

[Tigers of Old]

Re: Does the AFL discriminate?

Bit surprised this has crossed to this board. That said, this is a very grey area that's for sure.
Personally I think on field gestures ad to the theatre of the sport and barring really offensive actions (such as a finger to the crowd) they should be allowed.
Including Adam's dance, Dusty's cross.
The game has too many robots as it is. Really do we just want them all to give an arm pump and a high 5?
Gosh they even tried to squash Akermanis' handstands.
I love some of the celebrations in the US and UK sports such as Tim Cahill punching the corner flag or American footballers doing somersaults after a touchdown.
The fun police should open this one up IMO but it's pretty much got to be all or nothing. Right now we've got neither. Just shades of grey which cause the question marks.

 

[Rosy]

Re: Does the AFL discriminate?

Bit surprised this has crossed to this board. ........

Why? It's an on-field issue and not overly relevant on the other thread as I kept being told. It's also an issue that is being weighed up heavily on my future financial support of the AFL.

To me every player in the AFL should be treated equally and be subject to the same conditions and rules. I don't think that's happening. I personally think they're more interested in political correctness than an even playing field.

 

[martyshire]

It's called sitting on the fence, and if you are a CEO who does it it does you are not the right man for the job either because you can't make a decision or because you don't have control of key stakeholders. Both are bad.

In that case 'The fence' is the only reasonable place to be on this issue.

There are so many emotive, simplistic and narrow minded arguments being thrown around on both sides of it. Our media love it.

 

[AngryAnt]

The fence is the only reasonable place to be on this issue.

There are so many emotive, simplistic and narrow minded arguments being thrown around on both sides of it. Our media love it.

Even more important to have a strong and principled position in that case, not chuck it in the too hard basket.

 

[Tigaman]

Re: Does the AFL discriminate?

What would occur if white player lifts up jumper & does a Winmar ?

 

[Rosy]

Re: Does the AFL discriminate?

What would occur if white player lifts up jumper & does a Winmar ?

No doubt that wouldn't be acceptable and rightly so imo. Still they open a can of worms by not being clear and consistent in regards to ALL players.

 

[TJsFurrow]

Re: Does the AFL discriminate?

What would occur if white player lifts up jumper & does a Winmar ?

I'd applaud him if it was a statement against a barrage of racial taunts on behalf of a race who were systemically denied equal rights until 1967 and still suffering the social impact of the resulting broken communities.

But it wouldn't be, so that guy would be an entitled ignoramus.

 

[tigersnake]

Re: Does the AFL discriminate?

What would occur if white player lifts up jumper & does a Winmar ?

quite a bewilderingly naive hypothetical though.

 

[Baloo]

Re: Does the AFL discriminate?

Two of those gestures are now considered an indigenous tradition, dance, much like the haka.

The other two aren't. Not sure how they can be lumped together in any logical way.

 

[Rosy]

Re: Does the AFL discriminate?

The AFL encouraged every indigenous player to do the so called war dance. How they can actively support crowd intimidation from any players is beyond me.

 

[martyshire]

Even more important to have a strong and principled position in that case, not chuc iit in the too hard basket.

Most of the people with a strong view ARE putting it in the too hard basket by not thinking about it properly.

 

[Rancey18]

Re: Does the AFL discriminate?

Difference is, the haka is done towards the opposition team. These 'war dances' have been directed at supporters in clearly an intimidating manner. I'd have no issue whatsoever if they did it prior to the match towards the opposition - I think that would be fantastic and should be encouraged. What is happening currently however is very different.

 

[martyshire]

Most of the people with a strong view ARE putting it in the too hard basket by not thinking about it properly.

And these strong opinions themselves only add to the division and emotion. Really unhelpful stuff.

 

[tigersnake]

Re: Does the AFL discriminate?

The AFL encouraged every indigenous player to do the so called war dance. How they can actively support crowd intimidation from any players is beyond me.

I wasn't intimidated

 

[Rosy]

Re: Does the AFL discriminate?

Two of those gestures are now considered an indigenous tradition, dance, much like the haka.

The other two aren't. Not sure how they can be lumped together in any logical way.

2 recent performances of a recently designed dance equates to an indigenous tradition? :hihi

The Haka is done to the opposition team, not the supporters over the fence. Fact is the new "war dance" is meant to intimidate the crowd. Do we need that from everyone? Would you think it was acceptable if all indigenous players got in the face of the crowd as the AFL have suggested? Would you support non-indigenous players having the same right. They could design a dance and call it a tradition too. Fact is neither would be traditional. Both could lead to conflict. I don't see how one can be considered acceptable based on race.

 

[zgod]

Re: Does the AFL discriminate?

Its because pc has gone mad. Everyone is to scared to say ir do something wrong.

 

[Rosy]

Re: Does the AFL discriminate?

I wasn't intimidated

Were you there and was it aimed at you? Adam said it was meant to intimidate. Maybe his dance was a failure but the intent was obviously there.

 

[Tigers of Old]

Re: Does the AFL discriminate?

I wasn't intimidated

You didn't duck? :hihi

 

[Baloo]

Re: Does the AFL discriminate?

2 recent performances of a recently designed dance equates to an indigenous tradition? :hihi

How many times does it need to happen before it becomes tradition ? My understanding is that the dance was choreographed by a group of young indigenous kids playing in a rep team who wanted to try and start a Haka like tradition. I think it's a very good thing and thankfully I don't find myself intimidated by it. A quick poll around the office and no one here feels intimidated.

The Haka is done to the opposition team, not the supporters over the fence.

The roots of the Haka is a dance for maoris to psyche themselves up before battle. It was never done in front of enemies to intimidate. On the field it's become a purely sporting thing and its more for the crowd than for the players.

Fact is the new "war dance" is meant to intimidate the crowd.

Fact is it's not a war dance. You choose really. If it's not tradition then its not a war dance because no one is at war. If it is a war dance then it must be tradition.

Do we need that from everyone? Would you think it was acceptable if all indigenous players got in the face of the crowd as the AFL have suggested?

I don't see it as anything intimidating or "get in the face of" so I can't relate to your position.

Would you support non-indigenous players having the same right.

many opposition supporters and players find the "YELLOW AND BLACK" Traditional War Cry of the Richmond Tigers intimidating so the answer to your question is a most definite "Yes" from me

They could design a dance and call it a tradition too.

A bit like the chicken dance, now tradition at all weddings in certain societies.

Fact is neither would be traditional.

They are trying to make it a traditional part of the indigenous game. What's wrong with that. How long do they have to do it until it becomes "tradition""

Both could lead to conflict.

Anything can lead to conflict if people are looking for conflict

I don't see how one can be considered acceptable based on race.

I don't think it is. I'm pretty sure the AFL have said all players should do it.

 

[Rosy]

Re: Does the AFL discriminate?

How many times does it need to happen before it becomes tradition ? My understanding is that the dance was choreographed by a group of young indigenous kids playing in a rep team who wanted to try and start a Haka like tradition. I think it's a very good thing and thankfully I don't find myself intimidated by it. A quick poll around the office and no one here feels intimidated.
......

More than 2 I'd say. :hihi

tradition
trəˈdɪʃ(ə)n/Submit
noun
1.
the transmission of customs or beliefs from generation to generation, or the fact of being passed on in this way

I don't know anyone who was intimidated either but Adam said it was meant to intimidate. I just reckon he looked like a bit of a goose. It could well be intimidating and lead to crowd reaction if every indigenous player treats the crowd that way. I don't know why the AFL would encourage it.

.......
The roots of the Haka is a dance for maoris to psyche themselves up before battle. It was never done in front of enemies to intimidate. On the field it's become a purely sporting thing and its more for the crowd than for the players.

I don't follow rugby and am not interested in what they do. I've only ever seen the Haka done towards to opposition team rather than to the crowd though.

Fact is it's not a war dance. You choose really. If it's not tradition then its not a war dance because no one is at war. If it is a war dance then it must be tradition.

I choose really what? Adam said "It's a war cry, it's a battle. It's supposed to intimidate you, it's supposed to say, 'This is who we are. Come at us.' " I agree with you that noone's at war.

I don't see it as anything intimidating or "get in the face of" so I can't relate to your position.

Intended but not achieved imo.

I don't think it is. I'm pretty sure the AFL have said all players should do it.

They may well have said that. They also said "We've seen two players perform it. We have 72 indigenous players competing across the competition. I wonder if they could make a statement. I wonder if they all performed it next weekend how their supporters would receive that.