Re: Adam Goodes

[Jason King]

Are we equating the girl with the lunatic fringe? Frankly I think the "putrid agenda" he speaks of belonged to those who chose to misrepresent the incident. No wonder the lunatic fringe are incensed.

The lunatics are the ones who chose to view the girl as the victim. The big bad strong man vs the poor little victim girl. In actual fact Goodes did everything he could to both address the racism issue and protect the girl as much as possible. People saying Adam Goodes should "Man Up" are both racist and sexist.

 

[tigersnake]

Your post is the perfect example of strange logic and weird second guessing in my opinion. How could you possibly know how all this would affect the child involved?

A "great thing" for a 13 yo girl? Yeah sure. The girl is a 13yo who made a mistake. The price she is paying is way out of proportion. She is a victim too. The "face of racism" :

If it's so great to be segregated and interrogated, accused of being racist, had her face plastered over the tv and papers, shown little empathy, be discussed and judged by all and sundry, be a worldwide topic of conservation it should almost be a compulsory school curriculum experience for pre-teenage kids.

One think I've noticed is not too many seem to be speaking out about this as Aboriginals.

An Elder friend told us she despises "white darkies". The non-indigenous people who speak out for them, get involved in causes, purport to know how the Aboriginal community feels.

They seem to be out in full force this week. Sometimes they can do more harm than good.

Its just the way I see it rosy, thats why I said, 'I reckon'. She will be forced to consider new angles, she'll meet great people she would never otherwise have met. Most people who have small minded views such as she expressed cling to them tightly, never have them directly questioned, never see the other side. Its an opportunity for her. (maybe people don't want that, hence the hysterical reaction? I dunno). And from the very outset, she was shown a lot of empathy.

The thing is too, she is the face of racism in Australia right now (or last weekend at least). Thats not Goodes being nasty, just stating a fact. Next week or month there will be another face, a rant on a bus or whatever, but right now, or maybe yesterday, she was it. She openly stated what a lot of people privately think. Nobody want's there to be a face of racism. But they keep popping up unfortunately, and won't be stopping anytime soon.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

The lunatics are the ones who chose to view the girl as the victim. The big bad strong man vs the poor little victim girl. In actual fact Goodes did everything he could to both address the racism issue and protect the girl as much as possible. People saying Adam Goodes should "Man Up" are both racist and sexist.

I didn't have a problem with Goodes' initial reaction. Just felt that after things had settled down and the context was realised, he could've shrugged it off instead of continuing to bleed it.

The girl was detained for two hours. Was the Lovett-Murray stabber held that long?

I'll stand with you and condemn genuine racism when I see it. Far from convinced this is it.

 

[Jason King]

I didn't have a problem with Goodes' initial reaction. Just felt that after things had settled down and the context was realised, he could've shrugged it off instead of continuing to bleed it.

The girl was detained for two hours. Was the Lovett-Murray stabber held that long?

I'll stand with you and condemn genuine racism when I see it. Far from convinced this is it.

I don't agree with the detaining either, a simple ejection from the stadium would have been sufficient. As for how Goodes took the racist insult, its pretty hard for me to have an opinion as I have never really been racially attacked apart from a well known indigenous football families child telling me "your going to jail... why ? Because you are an *smile* whitey..." He copped a nice backhand and stern talking to and he was only 6 years old.

 

[Brodders17]

The girl was detained for two hours. Was the Lovett-Murray stabber held that long?

i havent followed this that closely, was she detained because of her behaviour or because she was 14 and they had nowhere to 'send' her?

 

[tigergollywog]

A couple of aboriginal kids came to stand near us with a packet of jelly beans. They made a point of letting us know they were eating the black ones then with a few ordinary words they got the white ones and trampled them into the ground in front of us.


Stamping out racism needs commitment from everybody regardless of their skin colour. No exceptions, no excuses.

Can you see the flimsiness of your anecdote as relates to the broader issue here Rosy? FWIW, I always buy packets of straight black jelly beans from the chemist. I love the black ones and it de-politicises my confectionary.

Goodesy and any decent, half wise person would agree with you on your last point.

 

[Arghoslent]

Its kind of like Missy Higgins shouldnt sing the blues.

Missy Higgins shouldn't sing period.

 

[Streak]

Leysy

I asked you a question here, was wondering if you could answer it.

http://puntroadend.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=48353.msg1587615#msg1587615

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

i havent followed this that closely, was she detained because of her behaviour or because she was 14 and they had nowhere to 'send' her?

Not sure, heard it in a news snippet on the radio, in the context of her grandmother(?) criticising authorities for holding her for so long.

Edit: Here it is

MCG defends treatment of girl at centre of Adam Goodes scandal as family expresses anger

FWIW I don't think the girl-as-victim angle should be bled either. The mother makes some slightly inflammatory remarks in that article, and "You're an ape" is degrees worse than "You big ape".

The message has well and truly rung out. Just let it fade.

 

[Nico]

My 3yo girl calls the Indian lady who takes storytime at the local library the "brown woman". Obviously totally innocent, but an accurate description for a 3yo.

I don't know where this fits in, just thought I'd mention it.

 

[brigadiertiger]

So damned if he does damned if he doesn't huh. Thats if he even meant that comment in the way you're interpreting, as I said he also could have meant he didn't think the girl was a racist, it doesn't change the fact that its a racist comment, that pretty obviously had a profound effect on Goodes, unless you're going to claim all his actions on the night were an act.

So it is my interpretation now. Maybe Goodes should decide what he is thinking and get it straight he pointed her out for saying a racist comment but she didn't mean it in a racist way so why point her out for public humiliation because it wasn't like the game was being broadcast across the nation and no one would have expected cameras to focus on the target of his accusation.

Anyway this is just going to go around in circles now so watch out you don't get to dizzy.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

My 3yo girl calls the Indian lady who takes storytime at the local library the "brown woman". Obviously totally innocent, but an accurate description for a 3yo.

I don't know where this fits in, just thought I'd mention it.

Mum loves telling a story about the first black person I saw, while travelling on a tram.

"Look at that man! He's got a black face!", I exclaimed excitedly (apparently, I was too young to remember). "And black fingers!" Eyes growing wider all the time. "He's all black!!"

Perhaps fortunately the bloke didn't take offence and just laughed out loud.

No relevance either, just came to mind.

Somewhere along the way we outgrow that innocence, but I'm not sure your average 13yo is worldly enough to make racist remarks in a truly hateful context.

 

[fastin bulbous]

Thats a weird statement, on so many levels. I know your gonna ask for the levels, so ill layer 'em

1. Black fellas are 2% of the population, so on a level playing field, youde expect 2% of speakers to be black.
2. Goodes is black and he is the key note speaker here (this is the most important point I believe)
3. I can understand why your Elder friend might carry some bitterness to her persecutors-turned-advocate. However, its almost entirely irrelevant. Who is she? Is she Marcia Langton or a random black person over 50, or somewhere in between?
4. Under your elder friends logic, I should resign my volunteer position at the soup kitchen cause Im a 'homeless person with a home'. To be qualified to advocate, you have to be in same position as the person you wanna advocate for? Thats counterproductive, but I do get where your friend it coming from. Its kind of like Missy Higgins shouldnt sing the blues.
5. How does your friend feel about Adam stance? A proud, high acheiving, gifted Koori wearing his heart on his sleeve as he sticks up for himself? Thats what we really need to know. How does she feel when such a man takes such a stand and such a risk, and white people on internet forums say hes soft and does look a bit like a monkey?


I could go on all day, but im feeling a bit like this :'(

Deliberately avoided this thread - cos :brickwall

 

[mld]

Mum loves telling a story about the first black person I saw, while travelling on a tram.

"Look at that man! He's got a black face!", I exclaimed excitedly (apparently, I was too young to remember). "And black fingers!" Eyes growing wider all the time. "He's all black!!"

Perhaps fortunately the bloke didn't take offence and just laughed out loud.

No relevance either, just came to mind.

Somewhere along the way we outgrow that innocence, but I'm not sure your average 13yo is worldly enough to make racist remarks in a truly hateful context.

I think the major difference in both these anecdotes is that the comment wasn't being yelled as abuse over the fence.

 

[tigergollywog]

Deliberately avoided this thread - cos :brickwall

I was hopin' youde turn up fb, but I understand your reticence entirely.

 

[Rosy]

And its continued on Tooheys.

Leysy's no do-gooder or pollitically correct person, but we've found out a lot about certain posters in the last few pages.

Really?

Like what?

Leysy

I asked you a question here, was wondering if you could answer it.

http://puntroadend.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=48353.msg1587615#msg1587615

Like Streaker I'd also be interested to know what you've found out about certain posters Leysy.

 

[Rosy]

Adam said that he was called an ape because of his "appearance". The comment might well have been construed as racist but that doesn't mean it was intended as racist. A white person could be called an ape because of their "appearance" and it wouldn't be considered racist.

Is there a precedence of any other indigenous player being called an ape? As I said, and others said the same, I'd never heard the reference suggested as a racial slur before this blew up. People mention it's been an issue for decades but I don't recall ever hearing of it before.

Adam said he's copped similar on the field so it's interesting he didn't leave the ground because he was so upset or opt to take a stand over it. Is it less hurtful/more acceptable on the field?

I don't know how anyone can possibly be so black and white (no pun intended) in regard to whether the girl's sledge was racially motivated or not. She has said it wasn't and that she wasn't aware of the racial implications. I would't have a clue what she intended and I don't see how anyone else can possibly be 100% sure either.

 

[tigergollywog]

It was indigenous round. I imagine Goodesy was feeling chuffed at his participation in the celebration and then felt really deflated by what, he perceived as a racist remark. I imagine most black fellas would be pretty adept at interpreting racist remarks.

 

[Tigertool]

A white person could be called an ape because of their "appearance" and it wouldn't be considered racist.

Cotch being called 'Chimp' as an example.

 

[tigergollywog]

Cotch being called 'Chimp' as an example.

nuh