Re: Adam Goodes

[brigadiertiger]

Of course he found it racist, he is just trying to publicly minimise the damage to her character. Its not about throwing her in jail or giving her a life ban its about education. The old dinosaurs can come out of the woodwork and belittle Adam all they like, but the fact remains its his right to bring this up and its for the better that certain sections of the community know this is not acceptable behaviour.

So when he said she didn't say it in a racist way he lied?

 

[KnightersRevenge]

I'm sick of all this history crap. I'm not a redhead so I'll leave it up to someone who is to respond but who is anyone to suggest that redheads should be told harden up and take it as a "light hearted jest" whilst others can claim that just about anything said to them is racist?

How far back in history do you wish to go? I know, let's aspire to become the middle east where nothing short of a nuclear Holocaust is likely to solve, ever.

I don't care about history. I care about now. If you want to talk about history and justify current conditions based on that,then good luck and be prepared for a long battle which will go on for long after either of us is around.

Quite frankly, maybe Adam Goodes should harden up.

So you're sick of the history lesson but you can't imagine the sickening feeling in the guts Goodes had when he heard it then worse when he realised it was a young girl? Pity. But you're ignorance or ambivalence doesn't remove the historical context. That is precisely what gives most racial slurs their bite. And most suggesting an opportunity to continue to educate people which can only be a good thing can't it?

 

[Soda]

A couple of very good articles in The Age today, one from Greg Baum (has become the leading sportswriter in the country IMO) and another from Peter Gebhart - worth a read, hopefully they may provoke us all to take stock about our behaviour.

 

[tigerdave]

Correct me if i'm wrong but didn't we all descend from ape's.

Goodes has made this all about himself on indigineous round.

 

[Soda]

Correct me if i'm wrong but didn't we all descend from ape's.

Goodes has made this all about himself on indigineous round.

How do people keep missing the point? Have a read of the below and see if you still hold the same opinion TD.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/goodes-critics-way-off-mark-20130527-2n7kr.html

http://www.smh.com.au/comment/racism-abating-a-snowflakes-chance-in-hell-20130527-2n7a4.html

 

[tigergollywog]

Bit of a historical failure here cyclops. Racism is about discrimination. Can you point to all the discrimination against downtrodden read-heads? Have they been refused work? Segregated? Been refused civil and human rights by non red haired people? Have they been hunted and decimated? Made slaves because of their red hair? Or because they are white? Is there a history of maltreatment of white people by another race you can point to to give a context to this double standard?

Nope. There is no double standard here, the only person who might agree with you is Andrew Bolt...

smart response Knightsy.

I don't care about history. I care about now.

Never get misty eyed when you think back to 1980 'Ol 1-eye? :


Ive got to admit to feeling a fair bit of Adam Goodes pain from the stuff here on PRE. I thought everyone veiwed Goodes like I did - A gentleman, a champion, a sublime player to watch and a magnificent leader and advocate for the indigeneous community. I also naively thought everyone would feel sorry for the young girls ignorance.

I feel pretty sad.

 

[Rosy]

Should be a great thing for the girl. More likely than not I reckon. Open up new ideas and possibilities. Do the wrong thing, get your arse kicked, learn from it and move on. Lot of weird second guessing and strange logic around here.

Your post is the perfect example of strange logic and weird second guessing in my opinion. How could you possibly know how all this would affect the child involved?

A "great thing" for a 13 yo girl? Yeah sure. The girl is a 13yo who made a mistake. The price she is paying is way out of proportion. She is a victim too. The "face of racism" :

If it's so great to be segregated and interrogated, accused of being racist, had her face plastered over the tv and papers, shown little empathy, be discussed and judged by all and sundry, be a worldwide topic of conservation it should almost be a compulsory school curriculum experience for pre-teenage kids.

One think I've noticed is not too many seem to be speaking out about this as Aboriginals.

An Elder friend told us she despises "white darkies". The non-indigenous people who speak out for them, get involved in causes, purport to know how the Aboriginal community feels.

They seem to be out in full force this week. Sometimes they can do more harm than good.

 

[IanG]

So when he said she didn't say it in a racist way he lied?

So damned if he does damned if he doesn't huh. Thats if he even meant that comment in the way you're interpreting, as I said he also could have meant he didn't think the girl was a racist, it doesn't change the fact that its a racist comment, that pretty obviously had a profound effect on Goodes, unless you're going to claim all his actions on the night were an act.

 

[Soda]

Your post is the perfect example of strange logic and weird second guessing in my opinion. How could you possibly know how all this would affect the child involved?

A "great thing" for a 13 yo girl? Yeah sure. The girl is a 13yo who made a mistake. The price she is paying is way out of proportion. She is a victim too. The "face of racism" :

If it's so great to be segregated and interrogated, accused of being racist, had her face plastered over the tv and papers, shown little empathy, be discussed and judged by all and sundry, be a worldwide topic of conservation it should almost be a compulsory school curriculum experience for pre-teenage kids.

So what should have been the response Rosy? How should it have been handled? Should Goodes have ignored it?

There was plenty of empathy from Goodes himself, from Mcguire, from the commentators on the night.

 

[tigergollywog]

One think I've noticed is not too many seem to be speaking out about this as Aboriginals.

An Elder friend told us she despises "white darkies". The non-indigenous people who speak out for them, get involved in causes, purport to know how the Aboriginal community feels.

Thats a weird statement, on so many levels. I know your gonna ask for the levels, so ill layer 'em

1. Black fellas are 2% of the population, so on a level playing field, youde expect 2% of speakers to be black.
2. Goodes is black and he is the key note speaker here (this is the most important point I believe)
3. I can understand why your Elder friend might carry some bitterness to her persecutors-turned-advocate. However, its almost entirely irrelevant. Who is she? Is she Marcia Langton or a random black person over 50, or somewhere in between?
4. Under your elder friends logic, I should resign my volunteer position at the soup kitchen cause Im a 'homeless person with a home'. To be qualified to advocate, you have to be in same position as the person you wanna advocate for? Thats counterproductive, but I do get where your friend it coming from. Its kind of like Missy Higgins shouldnt sing the blues.
5. How does your friend feel about Adam stance? A proud, high acheiving, gifted Koori wearing his heart on his sleeve as he sticks up for himself? Thats what we really need to know. How does she feel when such a man takes such a stand and such a risk, and white people on internet forums say hes soft and does look a bit like a monkey?


I could go on all day, but im feeling a bit like this :'(

 

[Rosy]

So what should have been the response Rosy? How should it have been handled? Should Goodes have ignored it?

I'm not saying what Goodes should or shouldn't have done. That's his prerogative and decision. No doubt he's been called similar things on the playing field many times before and not had near the same reaction. It was his choice to grab his chance to "take a stand" when it involved a kid in the Indigenous round.

I would be extremely surprised if he behaved the same way if an opposition player called him an ape when his team was a kick down 2 minutes before the end of a grand final. If his team won the GF I wonder if he'd be in the rooms alone or running a lap of honour and taking part in the presentations.

I'd like Adam Goodes to experience a Rumbalara footy club crowd like I have and listen to the abuse and racism there. Difference is it is being directed from Indigenous people to white people. Some shocking, abusive, obscene, derogatory comments. A couple of aboriginal kids came to stand near us with a packet of jelly beans. They made a point of letting us know they were eating the black ones then with a few ordinary words they got the white ones and trampled them into the ground in front of us. That kind of behaviour only perpetuates the problems. No doubt if that situation was reversed all hell would break loose. Unfortunately it fans the fires.

Stamping out racism needs commitment from everybody regardless of their skin colour. No exceptions, no excuses.

 

[Soda]

I'm not saying what Goodes should or shouldn't have done. That's his prerogative and decision. No doubt he's been called similar things on the playing field many times before and not had near the same reaction. It was his choice to grab his chance to "take a stand" when it involved a kid in the Indigenous round.

I would be extremely surprised if he behaved the same way if an opposition player called him an ape when his team was a kick down 2 minutes before the end of a grand final. If his team won the GF I wonder if he'd be in the rooms alone or running a lap of honour and taking part in the presentations.

I'd like Adam Goodes to experience a Rumbalara footy club crowd like I have and listen to the abuse and racism there. Difference is it is being directed from Indigenous people to white people. Some shocking, abusive, obscene, derogatory comments. A couple of aboriginal kids came to stand near us with a packet of jelly beans. They made a point of letting us know they were eating the black ones then with a few ordinary words they got the white ones and trampled them into the ground in front of us. That kind of behaviour only perpetuates the problems. No doubt if that situation was reversed all hell would break loose. Unfortunately it fans the fires.

Stamping out racism needs commitment from everybody regardless of their skin colour. No exceptions, no excuses.

It's not a perogative IMO its an obligation. Leaders in our community need to be setting examples for the rest of us. His actions are a small step forward IMO.

Don't really understand why you won't form an opinion on what he should or shouldn't have done in an instance that actually occurred and then claim to know what he would do in a hypothetical you raise?

I imagine Goodes would not condone racism in any form (and it defintely exists in all races) and agree entirely with your last line.

 

[Rosy]

It's not a perogative IMO its an obligation.

It was a conscious decision to speak out the way he did. His choice entirely. It wasn't compulsory for Adam to take it upon himself to make a stand, as he put it. He seemingly didn't feel the same obligation to react in a similar way all the other times he was called the same name. What was the obligation this time?

..... then claim to know what he would do in a hypothetical you raise?

You fellas are pretty good at twisting words to suit your agenda. Where did I "claim to know" what he would do? I wouldn't have a clue and never suggested for one second that I do. My words were "surprised" and "wonder". Neither of which suggest I "know" anything".

 

[Leysy Days]

It was a conscious decision to speak out the way he did. His choice entirely. It wasn't compulsory for Adam to take it upon himself to make a stand, as he put it. He seemingly didn't feel the same obligation to react in a similar way all the other times he was called the same name. What was the obligation this time?

Which "all other times"?

You fellas are pretty good at twisting words to suit your agenda. Where did I "claim to know" what he would do? I wouldn't have a clue and never suggested for one second that I do. My words were "surprised" and "wonder". Neither of which suggest I "know" anything".

"extremely suprised" sounds like you are at the least very confident about how Adam would react.

 

[U2Tigers]

I'll buy into this debate. I once again had the misfortune of listening to Eddie (the master of ignorance) on MMM this morning explaining (along with the co-hosts to the radio show) about how a red-headed person being called an 'orangutan' is a "light hearted jest" without any consideration of the context of the comment and then going on about how the comment made against Goodes is racist no matter what without ever considering the intentions of the girl involved or the context of the comment.

Basically it boils down to this:

Insult a white/Caucasian person - It's a "light hearted jest" to be tolerated. Harden up.
Insult anyone else - Racist beyond belief and heavy punishments involved for the guilty party. Boo hoo sob story to dominate a slow news week.

Sick of the double standards.

My son is a red head, and when he was a bit younger and the word "Ranga" really took off, he was really offended by it, always came home upset about it, even getting in fights at school sticking up for himself.

Light hearted jest, I think not. well not to an 9 year old at the time.

edit, but I will add that now he has aged a little, the term doesn't even faze him now.

 

[Rosy]

Which "all other times"?

Adam referred to experiencing the same thing on the field before but he didn't really elaborate other to say it was from other players not from the crowd.

"extremely suprised" sounds like you are at the least very confident about how Adam would react.

Stick to facts hey? I didn't say I know how he would feel no matter how you want to spin it. I did not for one moment indicate that I know how he'd react. I'd be surprised if any player distanced themselves from the team with a GF in the balance and/or chose not to participate in GF presentations and celebrations. Fact is I don't know and probably never will. Same as I don't claim to know whether the girl intended her comment as a racist jibe or not but plenty others seem willing to hang, dry and quarter her as a racist.

What I find interesting is Goodes mentioned being called an ape because of his appearance. If he perceives his appearance can to be likened to an ape isn't it possible the girl might have as well. Not necessarily racist but not acceptable none the less.

 

[Brodders17]

I'd like Adam Goodes to experience a Rumbalara footy club crowd like I have and listen to the abuse and racism there. Difference is it is being directed from Indigenous people to white people. Some shocking, abusive, obscene, derogatory comments. A couple of aboriginal kids came to stand near us with a packet of jelly beans. They made a point of letting us know they were eating the black ones then with a few ordinary words they got the white ones and trampled them into the ground in front of us. That kind of behaviour only perpetuates the problems. No doubt if that situation was reversed all hell would break loose. Unfortunately it fans the fires.

Rosy, as Im sure you know racism is wrong no matter which way it is directed. not sure of what your point is here.

 

[IanG]

Good article by Richard Hinds:

http://www.smh.com.au/afl/afl-news/goodess-outstretched-hand-still-cant-reach-lunatic-fringe-20130528-2n8wf.html

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Good article by Richard Hinds:

http://www.smh.com.au/afl/afl-news/goodess-outstretched-hand-still-cant-reach-lunatic-fringe-20130528-2n8wf.html

Are we equating the girl with the lunatic fringe? Frankly I think the "putrid agenda" he speaks of belonged to those who chose to misrepresent the incident. No wonder the lunatic fringe are incensed.

 

[tigersnake]

Are we equating the girl with the lunatic fringe? Frankly I think the "putrid agenda" he speaks of belonged to those who chose to misrepresent the incident. No wonder the lunatic fringe are incensed.

No he was equating the lunatic fringe with those who twisted the event so the girl is the victim, questioning Goodes Aboriginality etc. I especially like the 'complicating a simple event' line.