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OUR LIST FOR 2023
- Thread starter graystar1
- Start date
i just want 2 more years and for him to get to 100 games and anything else is a bonus , But he could easily play another 4-5 more
rarely gets injured and has that body type that has durability.
Bloke turned out to be a Gem
Apart from 5 words, it sounds like you are sick of winning flags.
Not at all, I just think we are at a fascinating position in terms of our list management and the direction we have taken. I can see the argument that it is a great move and the argument it is a terrible move and I see merit in both positions.
As I said, I'm all for the strategy, flags are bloody hard to win and if you have a shot you should take it no matter what the future cost.
I certainly won't complain if we end up like Hawthorn are now because we overplay it and it doesn't come off.
In a sense we have done the opposite to Hawthorn during our dynasty's, they always traded out of the Draft whereas we always invested in it. It's how those kids develope which we will decide how we go in the coming yrs.
As for Pickett, he could go a while yet, he was drafted mature age & isn't as banged up as most players his age are as a result of that.
As for Pickett, he could go a while yet, he was drafted mature age & isn't as banged up as most players his age are as a result of that.
Propaganda or not Tony Greenberg has made this point quite a few times over the season on the talking tigers podcast.
The premise is a simple one which is the analysis that Richmond is ageing team not regenerating its list with talented young players and investing in the draft is wrong.
As Tony has said we had the most debutants in 2022, we had 5 picks under 30 in last years draft. Our vfl team was very young at times this year and there is actually an argument that to bring in another 4-5 18 year olds in 2023 would leave us quite exposed to a very young playing list.
His irritation is with the footy media who he believes don’t research enough.
Whether we are successful or not is unknown but Tony’s point is that to say Richmond has not invested in young players as part of the strategy to stay competitive is just not correct.
Burgoyne is the exception to the rule - 1 of 5 ever to play 400 games. I don't think he should be the measurement.
Thank god we took 5 picks in the stronger draft last year .
As my last point.
Did the Hawks take more than 3 picks let alone 5 in the top 30 in any year post 2015?
We took our medicine last year.
Hawks are finally taking it 7yrs later with alot of pain ahead.
Pickett has 43 games to reach the 100 so I reckon he will need 3 seasons to get there, as for rarely injured, he missed 2 games this year with a hammy, 1 with a migraine and 1 with suspension, very few players get through a season unscathed.
Yeh key forwards are the problem. So hard to replace on the cheap and take so much time to develop. We are due for another Tasmanian super star. I’d like to see that tradition continue.
Hawthorn are actually a great case study for us to review.
2015
19 - Burton - traded in 2018 to get Wingard
22 - Lovell - delisted after 2 games
44 - Hardwick - 124 games so far
R18 - Surman - delisted after 0 games
R36 - Stewart - delisted after 7 games
R52 - Woodward - delisted after 0 games (mature age)
R62 - Glass - delisted after 21 games
2016 (traded out Brad Hill, Sam Mitchell, Jordan Lewis and 2017 1st. Traded in Tom Mitchell, JOM)
74 - Morrison - 78 games so far
76 - Lewis - 51 games so far
R14 - Hanrahan - delisted after 29 games
R31 - Fitzpatrick - delisted after 1 game (mature age)
R46 - Cousins - delisted after 35 games
2017 (traded out Luke Hodge, traded in Impey)
45 - Worpel - 79 games so far
67 - Moore - 52 games so far
71 - Ross - delisted after 0 games
R7 - Jones - delisted after 1 game
R23 - Mirra - delisted after 11 games (mature age)
R34 - Willsmore - delisted after 0 games
2018 (traded out Burton, traded in Wingard and Duryea)
52 - Koschitzke - played 36 games so far
63 - Walker - delisted after 0 games
R14 - Greaves - delisted after 10 games
R30 - Golds - delisted after 0 games
R43 - Mohr - delisted after 0 games (mature age)
R49 - Langford - delisted after 0 games
2019 (traded out Pittonet, traded in Frost, Patton)
13 - Day - played 33 games so far
29 - Maginness - played 19 games so far
57 - Morris - played 15 games so far
PSD2 - Hartley - delisted after 5 games (mature age)
R9 - Jeka - played 7 games so far (mature age)
2020 (traded in Hartigan, Phillips)
6 - Grainger-Barras - played 21 games so far
29 - Mitchell - played 0 games so far
35 - Downie - delisted after 2 games
46 - Brockman - played 11 games so far
R4 - Saunders - delisted after 1 game
2021 (traded out Ceglar, traded in Lynch)
MSD2 - Newcombe - played 22 games so far
MSD17 - Callow - delisted after 3 games
7 - Ward - played 14 games so far
23 - Butler - played 9 games so far
26 - McDonald - played 20 games so far
53 - Serong - played 3 games so far
R5 - Long - played 1 game so far
2022 (traded out Tom Mitchell, Gunston, traded in Stephens)
MSD6 - Ramsden - 0 games played yet
MSD20 - Blanck - 9 games played so far
Picks 6, 24, 41, 48, 50, 52 and 65
Thats a pretty sorry list. We could potentially compare out 2022 with their 2016 (we will have 2 late picks as they did when they took Morrison and Lewis with theirs - hopefully we can pick good ones too), but the years around them couldn't be further from what we have done. The year before they traded out for those 2 mids, they has 2 picks in the top 25 (we had 5 last year) and since traded 1 out to bring in Wingard which has been a massive fail.
They effectively had 1 pick inside 40 between 2015 and 2018 (as they traded Burton back out again). Thats chalk and cheese from what we have been doing.
Even go back to the year we won the flag, we had 3 within 25 (sure we traded 2 of those out), but we reset and went again with those picks.
I'm not sure why people compare us to the Hawks, we aren't doing what they did.
We actually hit the draft and more importantly we didn't trade the heart and soul out of our footy club for junk picks.
Even taking a look at the Hawks v us over the last 2 drafts.
We took 5 in 30 last year (1 top 10, 2 top 20, 3 between 21 and 30) but we also traded in Hopper and Taranto (although lost a teens pick next year)
They took 5 in 30 over the 2 years (2 in top 10, 2 in top 20, 3 between 21 and 30).
Our actual drafting over the last 2 years has been almost identical but we gained Taranto and Hopper and only lost a teens pick next year (and CCJ - a 20's pick) last year. So we have essentially drafted the same number of "quality" kids as the Hawks have over the last 2 years (21 and 22 drafts)
It was pretty clear last year that our team was vaguely competitive but there were glaring problems.
The main one was in the midfield. Teams that had big-bodied midfielders could get on top in the centre square for significant periods, and, when they did, we could not stop them. Shai and Dion were our most dangerous midfielders but they were too easy to block off the ball. Edwards was no longer the creative player of previous seasons and only added to the size disparity when he attended centre bounces. Dusty was rarely available, Graham carried injury for a big part of the year and, ultimately, was not able to play the Lambert role due to injury, another big miss for us. Lambert has been a very important part of our set up, allowing Martin and Bolton to play ahead of the ball, with very little negative impact. Cotch toiled manfully but he too was overwhelmed at times. Ross stepped up somewhat late in the year and Sonsie showed that he could play.
The finals loss rammed this point home. Neale destroyed our midfield, with the support of a few bigger bodies at the centre bounce.
Going after Taranto and Hopper is the exact change required to reverse our fortunes in this area. It puts our team squarely in the frame again.
We still have issues with aging players but they are more manageable. Replacing Riewoldt becomes the next priority. He still found 40 or so goals last year, a real credit to him. He may not be able to do it again. Bauer and Ryan are developing and we may be able to add to our stocks at the draft.
And let’s not forget that we can still trade into next year‘s draft by bringing a future first rounder in from the following season. The beauty of future pick trades is that you can use them to bring players in a year early, as we did with Hopper, and replace them the next year by trading the other way.
It can’t all be about youth. Too many young players don’t make it.
The main one was in the midfield. Teams that had big-bodied midfielders could get on top in the centre square for significant periods, and, when they did, we could not stop them. Shai and Dion were our most dangerous midfielders but they were too easy to block off the ball. Edwards was no longer the creative player of previous seasons and only added to the size disparity when he attended centre bounces. Dusty was rarely available, Graham carried injury for a big part of the year and, ultimately, was not able to play the Lambert role due to injury, another big miss for us. Lambert has been a very important part of our set up, allowing Martin and Bolton to play ahead of the ball, with very little negative impact. Cotch toiled manfully but he too was overwhelmed at times. Ross stepped up somewhat late in the year and Sonsie showed that he could play.
The finals loss rammed this point home. Neale destroyed our midfield, with the support of a few bigger bodies at the centre bounce.
Going after Taranto and Hopper is the exact change required to reverse our fortunes in this area. It puts our team squarely in the frame again.
We still have issues with aging players but they are more manageable. Replacing Riewoldt becomes the next priority. He still found 40 or so goals last year, a real credit to him. He may not be able to do it again. Bauer and Ryan are developing and we may be able to add to our stocks at the draft.
And let’s not forget that we can still trade into next year‘s draft by bringing a future first rounder in from the following season. The beauty of future pick trades is that you can use them to bring players in a year early, as we did with Hopper, and replace them the next year by trading the other way.
It can’t all be about youth. Too many young players don’t make it.
Love your work.
Your right its laughable that people compare us to hawthorn.
They're in a whole lot of trouble .
They have 5 picks in the top 50 in this years weaker draft with 6 & 24 being of any value.
Just on Hawthorn. They traded out Hodge, Mitchell, Lewis and Burchill when they still had plenty to offer and moved them on for junk picks. That is where their problems began. These guys were the keepers of the flame, culture-wise and they tried to rebuild without them.
The equivalent for us would have been trading out Prestia after the 2020 flag, Cotchin, Edwards and Jack at the end of 2021 and allowing Dusty to go elsewhere at the end of 2022. Whatever picks we received would never fill the vacuum that these departures would leave.
The equivalent for us would have been trading out Prestia after the 2020 flag, Cotchin, Edwards and Jack at the end of 2021 and allowing Dusty to go elsewhere at the end of 2022. Whatever picks we received would never fill the vacuum that these departures would leave.
You forgot to add the years 2009, 2011, 2012, 2013 and 2014 where the HAwks did not take a single 1sr rd pick.
Again, the comparison between us and the Hawks is ridiculous.
Not suggesting we have the same strategy as Hawthorn, we just both have strategies to try and stay at the top longer.
They tried a method and it didn't work, now we are trying another method and time will tell.
Thank god we took 5 picks in the stronger draft last year .
Zips told me they are all duds.
Hopefully it was a really strong draft because we have all our eggs in that basket effectively. We've taken three years worth of low draft picks in one draft and really need them to come through.
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