Noah Balta - Welcome to Tigerland | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Noah Balta - Welcome to Tigerland

leon said:
I actually appreciate your thoughts on Noah because I'm a big fan and have been all along. But I disagree with you about making him play FB now, even with Rance missing. Firstly because you've forgotten about Astbury being out too for this game. With him back, we can keep managing, as it allows Grimes and Broad to take less that the main KPF and Floss to zone off and intercept.

This is the same argument I've had with Bontague. The 2nd reason I object is because it's that defensive mentality. We've lost Alex the Great so get a very young, inexperienced player to start emulating him from scratch - by just punching any ball that comes near him. That mentality is just so old-school and outdated footy. Good modern FL's are going to be really loving the chance to feed off the crumbs to score; just like ours do/did and everyone's gone to school on finding and training their SFs to pounce and apply fierce forward pressure. Go look at how CScott has altered the Moggies FL. Mark the ball when you can, punch if you can't. Marking gives you ball control, allowing you to move it on quickly or 'tempo' it around until an attack is primed, and the way DH has allowed us to turn into a very poor ball-winning side along with a crap marking team is one of the reasons we are being undone. Bevo showed the way in the final H&A game of '18, so Bucks and Longmuir got the template for the PF, and used again this year. Bevo just used it to rip us a new one again.

So, play Balta forward in order to seek to win games, not try to save them. It's the old truism - attack is the best form of defence. There is little point in defence for it's own sake. When he's fresh from a rest, play Balts at CHF, when he's needing a break from relief rucking, play him deep and release Lynch to move around at CHF and escape the throng of key defenders sitting deep for our dumb bomb-kicking. Balts is a natural attacker; look at his goal this game and others. Making him into a grim defender at this stage is just a waste, and a loser mentality IMHO. He is a really fast big man - he's made for attack. Let him rip.
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Awesome work leon
 
Some great thoughts on Balta. The great part is not many calling for him to be dropped. Most can see his undeniable potential and value. I think in some ways the FB call is making it simpler & easier for him. Just has to follow a man, spoil etc etc. The problem is nowadays you need your smartest players and best users down, it may put undue pressure on him when he gets it. Although he showed some nice composure and decent field kicking when playing back a couple of times against bullies. And I can see why he should be forward, and also on the ball! He offers something unique.

As long as he keeps getting games I'll be happy.
 
yeah great posts from burger and leon. Top notch. I'm in between. I can't see any on the job training doing him any harm, fwd or back. Agree with Leon he is an all out attacking player, but you can do that at either end. And also, I can't see his attack MO being dampened by anything, ever. He is exciting.
 
leon said:
Balts is a natural attacker; look at his goal this game and others. Making him into a grim defender at this stage is just a waste, and a loser mentality IMHO. He is a really fast big man - he's made for attack. Let him rip.
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I don't quite see it that way. His goal and near-mark were both running with the flight of the ball, not leading out to it. He doesn't really have that leading instinct. Rather, he's best when he's behind the ball (eg on the wing) and can run forward. The intercept goal against Port is another example.

For now we need him back, forward and in the ruck, but he's more of a natural HB who can drift forward and goal rather than a forward who leads up to the ball.
 
Tony Braxton-Hicks said:
I don't quite see it that way. His goal and near-mark were both running with the flight of the ball, not leading out to it. He doesn't really have that leading instinct. Rather, he's best when he's behind the ball (eg on the wing) and can run forward. The intercept goal against Port is another example.

For now we need him back, forward and in the ruck, but he's more of a natural HB who can drift forward and goal rather than a forward who leads up to the ball.
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I probably needed to qualify it more. I mean especially now we need him up forward because a) Jack's still out and 2) Our FL functioned poorly against the Dogs, bombing too many balls deep in the Lynch vicinity, onto his head basically, allowing their defenders to double or triple team him and negate any chance of goals.

When JR's back, keep using him as a shock troop, a swingman who can have impact anywhere, but for now, forward. I haven't seen him at CHF much, he is usually deep. I think with the speed he has, he can lead well or soon adapt to it. There's no lack of energy, aggression or confidence.

The gist of Coburg's post was and I quote: "If it was my decision, though, I'd be sitting him at full back next game and just saying 'run, jump, punch'. Don't worry about marking. Don't worry about making the play. Kill everything." Is that how you see the best development of his ability? Just a one-dimensional negator? Is that how Beveridge is developing their young star, Naughton? He is also used as a swingman, but once they recalled Trengove to effect, it released Naughton to attack, but from what I've seen of him, he's nearly always going for his marks. Why wouldn't you want him to when he's so brilliant in the air?

It's like when we let Buddy go to the Dawks. Did Clarkson have so little idea of what attacking potential this amazing athlete had and so applied the above; "Just go down back and I want you do nothing but punch the pill!" (Not that I'm saying Noah is another Buddy ... but why limit his capacities at 20 years of age?)

BTW, this is exactly what they are NOT doing. Even Dimma, despite his natural defensive inclinations, sees the value in employing Balts much more imaginatively. But in this Dogs' match, he had to send him back to try on Naughton because he destroyed our experienced tall backs.

Note: after his brilliant goal, Darcy commented on CH.7 coverage that Noah has reached the equal top leg-speed of any AFL player over 2019 ... " and he probably just exceeded that." He took two bounces and kept clear from that Cordy who is no slouch at full pace.

He's an attacking asset. Leave the spoiling and punching to the likes of Astbury.
 
leon said:
The gist of Coburg's post was and I quote: "If it was my decision, though, I'd be sitting him at full back next game and just saying 'run, jump, punch'. Don't worry about marking. Don't worry about making the play. Kill everything." Is that how you see the best development of his ability? Just a one-dimensional negator?
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I can appreciate the opportunity cost aspect of what you’re saying, long-term however, Grimes started the same way and he’s not one-dimensional. And Rance would be the long-term template for his potential ceiling. It’d be temporary, like training wheels.

Balta is a raw athlete who runs around wildly. He has a lot to think about when he’s learning the positioning, in 3 different positions, no less!). Sometimes when he’s dropping an easy mark, it’s like he was shocked to end up with so much space and his brain froze for a second. Spoiling would give him less factors to think about while he learns how it feels to run and impact contests effectively.

As the year progresses he’ll eventually start marking, and I can see him ending up a better player by doing it this way.

But I like your mentality in not limiting his ceiling.. Maybe at some stage later in the year or next year we should give him opportunities to do some risk-taking up forward.

Right now, I think we need to know what role he might be able to play in the 2019 final series. For Balta to play every game we know it’ll benefit the long-term either way, but we should also be thinking about what he can realistically contribute to a premiership this year.

Forward work is much harder to learn in half a season, and maybe the flashes and cameos will win the lottery... but most likely he’d get dropped on form in that role if everyone is healthy for finals.
 
Split the difference between Coburg and Leon. Play him first ruck and chuck Nank forward and back to do the hack work.

Or Noah could play the Richo wing role.

So many possibilities, so few Noahs!
 
leon said:
I actually appreciate your thoughts on Noah because I'm a big fan and have been all along. But I disagree with you about making him play FB now, even with Rance missing. Firstly because you've forgotten about Astbury being out too for this game. With him back, we can keep managing, as it allows Grimes and Broad to take less that the main KPF and Floss to zone off and intercept.

This is the same argument I've had with Bontague. The 2nd reason I object is because it's that defensive mentality. We've lost Alex the Great so get a very young, inexperienced player to start emulating him from scratch - by just punching any ball that comes near him. That mentality is just so old-school and outdated footy. Good modern FL's are going to be really loving the chance to feed off the crumbs to score; just like ours do/did and everyone's gone to school on finding and training their SFs to pounce and apply fierce forward pressure. Go look at how CScott has altered the Moggies FL. Mark the ball when you can, punch if you can't. Marking gives you ball control, allowing you to move it on quickly or 'tempo' it around until an attack is primed, and the way DH has allowed us to turn into a very poor ball-winning side along with a crap marking team is one of the reasons we are being undone. Bevo showed the way in the final H&A game of '18, so Bucks and Longmuir got the template for the PF, and used again this year. Bevo just used it to rip us a new one again.

So, play Balta forward in order to seek to win games, not try to save them. It's the old truism - attack is the best form of defence. There is little point in defence for it's own sake. When he's fresh from a rest, play Balts at CHF, when he's needing a break from relief rucking, play him deep and release Lynch to move around at CHF and escape the throng of key defenders sitting deep for our dumb bomb-kicking. Balts is a natural attacker; look at his goal this game and others. Making him into a grim defender at this stage is just a waste, and a loser mentality IMHO. He is a really fast big man - he's made for attack. Let him rip.
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For accuracy, I actually said CHB which is an attacking position in modern football. I see him as a Peter Knights type who could be a dominant CHB/CHF type
And it's Don't Argue unless you enjoy calling people silly names
 
If i was boss, id keep doing exactly what they are doing.

Hard wire him as the modern super swing man.

Darcy moore role when hes back, ARon naughton up forward and Bont in the guts.

Just keep doing what hes doing

The world is his mountain oyster and hes at base camp
 
He’s refreshing,he’s unique,he’s untapped potential.Generally,the system and team rules can’t accommodate the unbroken colt.But because he’s needed in at least three areas of the ground:Forward,Back,2nd Ruck/Clearance, he just might be afforded the opportunity to develop into a Carey type once in a generation player.

Leon’s posts were brilliant.Providing the MC keep picking him and the Coaches let him develop naturally,a couple of years down the track and he’ll be the talk of the competition.

He’s already being counselled by Jack and Rance so he’s in good hands if his game needs shaping or tweaking here or there.
 
leon said:
I actually appreciate your thoughts on Noah because I'm a big fan and have been all along. But I disagree with you about making him play FB now, even with Rance missing. Firstly because you've forgotten about Astbury being out too for this game. With him back, we can keep managing, as it allows Grimes and Broad to take less that the main KPF and Floss to zone off and intercept.

This is the same argument I've had with Bontague. The 2nd reason I object is because it's that defensive mentality. We've lost Alex the Great so get a very young, inexperienced player to start emulating him from scratch - by just punching any ball that comes near him. That mentality is just so old-school and outdated footy. Good modern FL's are going to be really loving the chance to feed off the crumbs to score; just like ours do/did and everyone's gone to school on finding and training their SFs to pounce and apply fierce forward pressure. Go look at how CScott has altered the Moggies FL. Mark the ball when you can, punch if you can't. Marking gives you ball control, allowing you to move it on quickly or 'tempo' it around until an attack is primed, and the way DH has allowed us to turn into a very poor ball-winning side along with a crap marking team is one of the reasons we are being undone. Bevo showed the way in the final H&A game of '18, so Bucks and Longmuir got the template for the PF, and used again this year. Bevo just used it to rip us a new one again.

So, play Balta forward in order to seek to win games, not try to save them. It's the old truism - attack is the best form of defence. There is little point in defence for it's own sake. When he's fresh from a rest, play Balts at CHF, when he's needing a break from relief rucking, play him deep and release Lynch to move around at CHF and escape the throng of key defenders sitting deep for our dumb bomb-kicking. Balts is a natural attacker; look at his goal this game and others. Making him into a grim defender at this stage is just a waste, and a loser mentality IMHO. He is a really fast big man - he's made for attack. Let him rip.
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Good post leon

I'd like to see him eventually become a forward, but in the mean time play on the wing. Roachy started on the wing and we know what Richo did playing there.
Shed and Stack down back would be great at putting the ball out in front of him so he can run on to it.

In Stack's first game against GWS, Stack kicked the ball to Higgins advantage for him to run onto. If Higgins hadn't been there he could put it out in front of Balta who was charging forward and just blitzed the GWS guy for pace. 1 minute 10 of this highlights package https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhioZsTODSw

As you mentioned he's a natural attacker re his goal against the Dogs, he would be such weapon on the wing charging forward and into the midfield at centre bounces.
 
Funny that pre draft his questions marks what exactly his position should be. I thought it’d be easy and we’d know after his 1st VFL season.

Here he is playing AFL, and we’re madly debating where his stand out attributes fit best on the field. I can’t work out if this is an fantastic thing, or a bad thing.

I am no closer to knowing where he fits best, he could be amazing in any position with his size and athleticism. At the moment, we need a key back the most, and I’d like him to learn on the job. I’d worry what his could do to his confidence if he gets dominated, but Noah has plenty of confidence in the bank.

I’d love to revisit this point in his career 5 years from now.
 
leon said:
I actually appreciate your thoughts on Noah because I'm a big fan and have been all along. But I disagree with you about making him play FB now, even with Rance missing. Firstly because you've forgotten about Astbury being out too for this game. With him back, we can keep managing, as it allows Grimes and Broad to take less that the main KPF and Floss to zone off and intercept.

This is the same argument I've had with Bontague. The 2nd reason I object is because it's that defensive mentality. We've lost Alex the Great so get a very young, inexperienced player to start emulating him from scratch - by just punching any ball that comes near him. That mentality is just so old-school and outdated footy. Good modern FL's are going to be really loving the chance to feed off the crumbs to score; just like ours do/did and everyone's gone to school on finding and training their SFs to pounce and apply fierce forward pressure. Go look at how CScott has altered the Moggies FL. Mark the ball when you can, punch if you can't. Marking gives you ball control, allowing you to move it on quickly or 'tempo' it around until an attack is primed, and the way DH has allowed us to turn into a very poor ball-winning side along with a crap marking team is one of the reasons we are being undone. Bevo showed the way in the final H&A game of '18, so Bucks and Longmuir got the template for the PF, and used again this year. Bevo just used it to rip us a new one again.

So, play Balta forward in order to seek to win games, not try to save them. It's the old truism - attack is the best form of defence. There is little point in defence for it's own sake. When he's fresh from a rest, play Balts at CHF, when he's needing a break from relief rucking, play him deep and release Lynch to move around at CHF and escape the throng of key defenders sitting deep for our dumb bomb-kicking. Balts is a natural attacker; look at his goal this game and others. Making him into a grim defender at this stage is just a waste, and a loser mentality IMHO. He is a really fast big man - he's made for attack. Let him rip.
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Not sure you picked up what I was trying to put down.

My post was about beginnings, not forevers. I see Balta ultimately playing on ball with license to roam. A late career Richo who won't be beaten in the air, across the ground, or in the contest.


But I also see him right now, a step off his man and double grabbing his marks. The 'Run, jump, punch' mantra actually serves a double purpose. Firstly, for him. It gives him a focus, and a clear role, and critically, confidence. The more times he negates his opponent, the more contests he learns to make, the more contact with the ball he gets, the bigger he'll grow. He'll also learn to time his run, and his leap. This is the reason he's double grabbing at the moment. He's getting to the contest off balance. Right now he's getting to contests with sheer athleticism. As he gets experienced enough to read the ball quicker, he'll get to the drop before his opponent rather than at the same time. Then he'll take his marks.

The second benefit here is a team one. Flossy and Grimes can zone and mark knowing they have an athletic freak supporting them as the extra man up. See, you mentioned how teams thrive off the crumb at the moment. When you have a bloke double grabbing you get more crumbs, not less. A proper punch to the boundary is way better than a dropped mark.

I just already have a lot of faith in what he will be. So I want to see him just get to as many contests as possible to get there. Read the flight, run, jump. Repeat. Learn.

I don't, however, have a Stack of faith in the player he is right now. A Stack being the SI unit of a player that can come into the AFL as the complete unit.
 
What a beast.
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Ripplestick said:
Do you know what a mountain oyster is?
Click to expand...

Yes.

I think the visual of Notorius swallowing Montana Tendergroins, at will, is far more appropriate than just routine shellfish

Plus there is no base camp to ascend from in the intertidal zone
 
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