Nathan (Axel) Foley [MERGED] | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Nathan (Axel) Foley [MERGED]

Disco08 said:
Our midfield hasn't been the problem. Losing Vickery has meant Ivan's effctiveness has been curtailed and our forward structure has gone to sh!t because we've been playing the likes of Miller, McGuane, Elton and Derrickx in his place. That's clearly illustrated by the inside 50 counts since Vickery went down:

GWS - 66-35
Adelaide - 57-47
Melbourne - 62-41
Gold Coast - 56-44 (without Maric, Foley, Martin, Jackson)
North - 50-62 (only game for the year Maric got soundly beaten)
Carlton - 54-47

The problem with Ivan doing all the ruck is that he starts games/quarters well and we have a few nice clearances and forward movements but as he tires our midfielders have to fight for the ball far more (which they are obviously doing very well still) and our ball movement slows right down as a result. Sound about right?

Of course we had more scoring shots in every one of those games too. Bad goalkicking is also hurting us far more than any lack of depth in the midfield.

Agree we should still be taking mids early in the draft though. The more quality in there the better.

Whilst some of those points have validity to leysy our gameplan has a lot more to do with those stats than anything else you have mentioned.
 
Care to explain how? It must be a decent gameplan if we're getting more inside 50's and more scoring shots with a midfield that has no depth.
 
Col.W.Kurtz said:
Past history indicated that Rosey is useually the first to know about Axel.

it was stated on another Tigers forum
that this person had heard the injury
wasnt the best and he was considering
his future.

i thought Rosy might have some info.

lets hope it isnt to that stage.
 
I can tell you that he was absolutely shattered when it happened, couldn't believe that he'd been hit with injury again as he'd finally thought he'd put it all behind him.
 
Disco08 said:
Care to explain how? It must be a decent gameplan if we're getting more inside 50's and more scoring shots with a midfield that has no depth.

You don't think the way we deliberately push numbers up to crowd our forward half generates more inside 50's but also makes clear goal scoring chances harder has anything to do with your numbers?

Don't have the time nor inclination to go onto further detail. Might bring up a post by leysy & also TOT in the past which does.
 
I can recall a lot of simple shots we've missed this year? Can't you?

We may do that as a forward press but I doubt that creates a lot of inside 50's. If it did, they'd be coming from turnovers which you'd expect to create excellent goal scoring chances. Is that what you mean? Or do you mean we play a 6 or 7 man forward line to create more numbers inside 50? If so, how does this help the midfielders get the ball in there?
 
Some good points here that outline what leysy is talking about.

LidsBling&Cotch said:
funny you bring that up because they over the last month I've developed a theory on this.

i agree that we are jack centric and i don't mind us being riewoldt centric but I get the feeling dimma may be getting it wrong. in developing a multi pronged attack he has made jacks work 3 times harder than it should be.

we are relying on jack to create a contest and either take a big pack grab or bring the ball to ground where we back our mids and smalls to hustle a goal. the problem is that there is no bloody space in our fwd line for anyone to work. when there is no space it makes leading impossible, hitting up targets even harder than impossible and increases the likelihood of a intercept mark by opposition backs

and here's the problem. we create a lot of opposition turnovers and f50 entries because our mids and backs push so deep forward. which is great but its the very thing that hurts our f50 entry efficiency and goal kicking accuracy because while our players are pushing they bring their opponent with them creating a congested f50 arc.

I can see what we are trying to do in that we press so high we create the pressure on our attacking 50m arc as opposed to our defensive 50m arc. but in doing this we have dysfunctional fwd line structure and a player in jack who never gets a ball one out with an opponent which also happens to be his biggest strength. we are intentionally playing to a plan that reduces the effectiveness of arguably our best players biggest strength.

is hardwick's game plan based around his high press and weight of f50 entries creating scoring shots OR because he doesn't want a one dimensional fwd line and a heavy reliance on jack? we all know and saw how that can be a poisoned chalice after witnessing the frawley era of "kick it to richo"

if jack worked as hard as he does right now in an open fwd line we'd have jacks opponent exactly in the situation all backs hate being in, one out deep. i would back riewoldt to beat just about anyone one on one with even an average kick to advantage. jack would kick a hundred goals a year and we would be kicking 25 goals 12 behinds a week instead of 12 goals 25 behinds

looks like a robbing peter to pay paul scenario right now but its evident he still doesnt have the personnel at his disposal to execute the game plan under the right structures. until we get vickery back next season and see how the astbury/griff situation unfolds i'll cut dimma some slack

TOT70 said:
Our forward line is always crowded.

Our forward press is designed to hold the ball in the forward 50 and is reasonably successful, creating multiple forward entries. Over the last two weeks, both Freo and GWS have conceded the midfield battle before it has begun and have dropped numbers back deeper and deeper, taking away any space. Was it 17 inside 50s to 1 at one stage on Saturday? Every GWS player spent most of that time in our forward 50.

We are generating a number of shots at goal from Forward 50 stoppages, especially boundary throw-ins in the pocket. It is not a bad strategy, except that the kicks are always under pressure, hence the large number of misses.
 
These problems don't seem to effect us in the first quarter too much. As I said before, they also won't create a lot of extra inside 50's. Did you see North pick apart our press all day? I'd agree the press can create extra 50's from time to time but there's no way it's repsonsible for us dominating teams like GWS, GC and Melbourne.

Still, keep on harping on about the midfield's lack of depth. It's really heartening to read given we're near the top for all of contested possessions, clearances, inside 50's and scoring shots (I guess the fact we do well at contested ball and the fact we go forward a lot are just coincidence).

Honestly, have you not seen our players miss plenty of easy enough shots this year?
 
tigers80 said:
it was stated on another Tigers forum
that this person had heard the injury
wasnt the best and he was considering
his future.

i thought Rosy might have some info.

lets hope it isnt to that stage.

Yeah, would be good to know what is going on with him.
 
Disco08 said:
Honestly, have you not seen our players miss plenty of easy enough shots this year?

I have Disco and to be honest, this season I have been happy with the way we have played.

Put simply, if we took our chances and were more clinical/ruthless when having set shots or easy shots running into goal....as well as being "smarter" and showed more character in the close games....we'd be entrenched in the top-8 by now.

Anyone who is bagging the style of play or the way we play is a chump.
 
Liverpool said:
I have Disco and to be honest, this season I have been happy with the way we have played.

Put simply, if we took our chances and were more clinical/ruthless when having set shots or easy shots running into goal....as well as being "smarter" and showed more character in the close games....we'd be entrenched in the top-8 by now.

Anyone who is bagging the style of play or the way we play is a chump.
The way we play, particularly since the saints game, is the reason we are kicking poorly. The crowded forward line is creating rushed pressure shots. The numbers clearly show that our marks inside 50 are near the bottom of the competition. The people that bag this style are not chumps they are astute.
 
Cmon Bill, Its just plain damn luck that we are having an unlucky streak in front of goal & cant convert our inside 50's. Cmon.
 
It's not luck, it's bad kicking. You really can't remember us missing plenty of easy shots at goal Leysy? It's been happening all year mate. Remember the game against Essendon? 6.16 we kicked in one stretch while dominating possession.

1 - Nahas waltzes inside 50 and can't make the distance, rushed
2 - Edwards kicks off the ground from 15m straight in front, just misses. Came from a quick break from a centre clearance
3 - Jackson snaps and just misses. Crowded forward line from a ball in at half forward
4 - Grigg rushes from a turnover, misses but had heaps of time
5 - Martin gets a clean centre clearance and misses from 50
6 - Conca marks and misses from 35 out slight angle
7 - Cotchin just misses from 50
8 - Martin misses from 25 out directly in front, no pressure. Richo: "They're missing some good chances here the Tiges"
9 - Deledio misses an easy snap from 25 slight angle no pressure
10 - Batchelor misses from 40 after a turnover, no pressure
11 - Miller marks 40 out directly in front and can't make the distance from 45, rushed
12 - Quick clearance gets it inside 50, Miller fumbles where he would have had an easy shot and Martin misses a pretty easy shot from 30
13 - End to end up the middle, Deledio misses from 45 on the run
14 - Foley marks and misses from 35, slight angle
15 - Jackson misses from 45, 45 degree angle
16 - King marks and misses from 35 out, 45 degree angle

By my count that's 1 or 2 at the most caused by a crowded forward line, and 14 pretty simple misses. We hit the front nonetheless halfway through the last quarter through sheer weight of possession, only to see the Bombers kick the last 3 goals when Ryder and Bellchambers get on top of Maric because he's had to ruck the whole game. Once he tires, we open up.

Against North same story. Cotchin, Jackson, McGuane, Edwards and Martin all miss easy chances during a run of dominance yet our midfield still gives us enough ball to ensure we're in front late into the game, but they get a roll on in the last quarter (did you know we suck at last quarters?) when Maric tires. Still Grigg has an easy snap to win the game but misses.

I'm sure if I have a look there's other glaring examples too. Livers is right. Given the number of close losses we've had we're only out of the 8 because we can't kick easy goals.
 
Disco08 said:
It's not luck, it's bad kicking. You really can't remember us missing plenty of easy shots at goal Leysy? It's been happening all year mate. Remember the game against Essendon? 6.16 we kicked in one stretch while dominating possession.

1 - Nahas waltzes inside 50 and can't make the distance, rushed
2 - Edwards kicks off the ground from 15m straight in front, just misses. Came from a quick break from a centre clearance
3 - Jackson snaps and just misses. Crowded forward line from a ball in at half forward
4 - Grigg rushes from a turnover, misses but had heaps of time
5 - Martin gets a clean centre clearance and misses from 50 - Conca marks and misses from 35 out slight angle
7 - Cotchin just misses from 508 - Martin misses from 25 out directly in front, no pressure. Richo: "They're missing some good chances here the Tiges"
9 - Deledio misses an easy snap from 25 slight angle no pressure
10 - Batchelor misses from 40 after a turnover, no pressure
11 - Miller marks 40 out directly in front and can't make the distance from 45, rushed
12 - Quick clearance gets it inside 50, Miller fumbles where he would have had an easy shot and Martin misses a pretty easy shot from 30
13 - End to end up the middle, Deledio misses from 45 on the run
14 - Foley marks and misses from 35, slight angle
15 - Jackson misses from 45, 45 degree angle
16 - King marks and misses from 35 out, 45 degree angle

By my count that's 1 or 2 at the most caused by a crowded forward line, and 14 pretty simple misses. We hit the front nonetheless halfway through the last quarter through sheer weight of possession, only to see the Bombers kick the last 3 goals when Ryder and Bellchambers get on top of Maric because he's had to ruck the whole game. Once he tires, we open up.

Against North same story. Cotchin, Jackson, McGuane, Edwards and Martin all miss easy chances during a run of dominance yet our midfield still gives us enough ball to ensure we're in front late into the game, but they get a roll on in the last quarter (did you know we suck at last quarters?) when Maric tires. Still Grigg has an easy snap to win the game but misses.

I'm sure if I have a look there's other glaring examples too. Livers is right. Given the number of close losses we've had we're only out of the 8 because we can't kick easy goals.

Just going by the description - I could accept "gettable" - but not necessarily "simple" for a number of those.
Some of the "simple" ones we've been missing of late are the set shots from pretty straight in front.
 
Yeah, fair point. They're shots players kick often but they're not altogether easy. I'd say they're 50/50's but we're missing them at a rate of about 80/20. You highlighted all the snaps too but under no pressure a running snap from 25 should be better than a 50/50 for players like Deledio.
 
I'm with Disco on this.
We have missed many 'gettable' goals this year which has made the difference between winning and losing.
Ultimately other clubs have been converting their chances but we haven't.
Bad kicking is bad football. We need to take the opportunities we create.
Basically a combination of poor awareness, composure and lack of skill.
 
Tigers of Old said:
I'm with Disco on this.
We have missed many 'gettable' goals this year which has made the difference between winning and losing.
Ultimately other clubs have been converting their chances but we haven't.
Bad kicking is bad football. We need to take the opportunities we create.
Basically a combination of poor awareness, composure and lack of skill.

As am I. Can't blame the game plan and the crowded forward line, kicking to the pockets etc. for players missing goals within 40 metres almost straight in front. Has happened time and time again this season. Even the normally reliable players like Martin and Jack have missed some sodas this year.

Someone posted in another thread we have outscored the opposition by something like 6 goals 49 behinds this year. Turn a handful of those behinds into goals and we have probably another 4 wins on the board and are comfortably in the 8.

The whole year has been about missed opportunities in one way shape or form.
 
Baloo said:
I'm lost now. Who are the astute and who are the chumps ?

The chumps are the ones who bag our style of play.

The astute ones are the ones who believe we are playing good footy but are not clinical or ruthless enough to kick the goals we should kick and to destroy opponents, or at least put the pressure right on them.

13 times this season we have had the ball cross our goal line at least the same as our opposition.
We've had 7 wins from that.
The Geelong, West Coast, Essendon, Fremantle, Adelaide, Kangaroos, and Blues games....all games we had equal/more scoring chances and lost them all :help

So we are either getting it down to our forward line or at least defending well enough to stop the opposition from scoring...but we just don't take our chances.