Nankervis !!

[Blind Turn]

You're all missing his greatest value to the team. Did you see Toby slap that West Coast player across the chops? Priceless yet doesn't appear on the stat sheet unless they creat a new category labeled intimidation

 

[Dyer'ere]

That's it, Jack. Let the young fella continue to have a crack at the game and the footy. He seems to enjoy the contest. And, as you say, "he's learning the caper", so I am a bit inclined to give him some freedom to go with his instincts and natural style of playing. The Tigers have, potentially, a ruckman who could be a future influencing and dominating big man force.

All he has to do is almost break even and I'm happy, BT.

You're all missing his greatest value to the team. Did you see Toby slap that West Coast player across the chops? Priceless yet doesn't appear on the stat sheet unless they creat a new category labeled intimidation

He does one a week, BT. That one on Priddis was probably a free but not a report. On the blind side. He's pretty skilful. ;D

 

[Giardiasis]

I don't like to think that there's any stank to the nank, but the opposition rucks have all had big games this year. Is it more to do with his lack of support in the ruck, or has he no responsibility for quelling their influence?

 

[waiting]

Biggest concern for me is that in all games we have been beaten in that area and he will need help as he has never been a f/t ruck, is raw,learning his craft and is a work in progress.

Can't on the top of my head remember numbers but I think in 3 or 4 games we have have lost h/o, clearances, contested football ?

Bank though with his follow up work becomes another midfielder, can mark, is a nice kick and has kicked goals.

Can't ask for more !

Maybe we are prepared to concede the h/o but we have to clean up a few areas. ?

 

[leon]

I don't like to think that there's any stank to the nank, but the opposition rucks have all had big games this year. Is it more to do with his lack of support in the ruck, or has he no responsibility for quelling their influence?

I'm sure Lambchops will be able to answer your very good questions. I'm guessing is that he'll say 'Yes, no responsibility,' for Q.2.

 

[Coburgtiger]

I'm sure Lambchops will be able to answer your very good questions. I'm guessing is that he'll say 'Yes, no responsibility,' for Q.2.

Nank needs to be more like Hampson. It's too easy to win without Hampson hitting the ball to the opposition all the time. Where's the fun in 4-0?

 

[leon]

Richmond Rucks Comparative Clearances 2017

Round 1

Nankervis/Griffiths = 3/1
Kreuzer/Casboult = 4/1

Round 2
Nankervis/Griffiths* = 7/1
Grundy/White = 6/1

Round 3
Nankervis/Elton = 4/0
Giles/Vardy = 3/2

By and large the best single number to look at as a guide to Nank's day is clearances. Comparative for context. He's a ground ruck not an aerial ruck. A tank not a helicopter. We want him to get individual clearances and stop them getting clearances, particularly their rucks.

I've just put these together but you can see straight away that they bear out the notion that Nank's best game for us by a street was against Grundy and that Giles and Vardy did far better against him than we would have liked.


The other number is tackles but I can't get comparative tackles in the ruck area. Toby's tackles will be mainly in the ruck area. Clearances/tackles matters. If you're getting ten clearances you've got the ball - no need to tackle. OTOH if your opponent is getting ten clearances and you're not tackling what the *smile* are you doing? If TOby walks off the park with ten clearances and six tackles he's probably BOG. Very loose but some guide to Toby's performance defensively:

Ruck Tackles 2017

Round 1

Nankervis/Griffiths = 3/6
Kreuzer/Casboult = 4/2

Round 2
Nankervis/Griffiths* = 2/0
Grundy/White = 2/2

Round 3
Nankervis/Elton = 2/4
Giles/Vardy = 4/0

It is clear that Nank is not laying enough tackles at this stage. We're cultivating young Nank's ball-winning game and he's going for the ball not the man. Fair enough. We saw him outGrundy Grundy a couple of weeks ago. At crucial stages. But last week Giles (who is not much chop) was running around by himself with the football. There's a price to pay.

IMO Nank was a bit off against WCE. I think it's because it's the first time he's faced a ruck pair. So far it's been one ruck and a part timer. Giles and Vardy as a pair equalled our man. And of course, our man was unsupported so tired. Fair enough. And he's a child. There's no damnation here. It's about weaknesses and improvement.

When you overlook or excue machine a bloke's failures you miss the choice observation of the improvement. Improvement is the good stuff.

Nank is going to come up against much better pairs than WCE served up last week. And it's his second area of vulnerability.

While we look at his ground ruck numbers we're overlooking another big factor. The aerial ruck game. We're going to have to look at that as it unfolds over the season.

* Griffiths injured. Occasionally replaced by Grigg as a ploy.

Quality post as generally, Jack. Way beyond the simplistic ruck analyses provided by some. Not sure about the 'excue machine' part though. Those who want to wear rose-coloured glasses wouldn't want to contemplate what WCE might have done with their top ruck combo of Nicnat and Lycett available.

In the Lions game, Stef Martin has won HOs 52 with 6 CLRs, Nankervis 17/4. One player, who was available for the highest bidder in the off-season - Rockliff -has had 15 CLRs on his own, equalling our 3 best - Cotch, Prestia and Caddy - in total. Dusty had a shocker (due to injury?).

So why didn't Lions win? Most likely because our FL is now functioning very well and theirs' is still so young and in development with KPF. Ours' much better than theirs with Jack, George, Daniel and Butts scoring 11 goals amongst them. The win was also due to our backline winning Turnovers and driving the ball forward, so we won the decisive i50s, 60/51.

Nank will need much more support in big games, especially against clubs that run two seriously good/decent rucks like Norf, Cats etc.

 

[leon]

Nank needs to be more like Hampson. It's too easy to win without Hampson hitting the ball to the opposition all the time. Where's the fun in 4-0?

On cue!

:rofl

 

[lamb22]

Leon, Geelong didn't run any rucks against North in the last quarter of their game.

Nank should be able to handle that.

 

[Mr Brightside]

I'm liking the relief marking option his providing around the ground , like the fact he pushes back an forward and is still in the contest when the ball hits the ground , doesn't have to be a great tap ruckman for us to become a good clearence unit, mids will only get better the more they play under him.

 

[MD Jazz]

So why didn't Lions win? Most likely because

we beat them 7 goals to 1 in scores from stoppages

 

[leon]

Leon, Geelong didn't run any rucks against North in the last quarter of their game.

Nank should be able to handle that.

Another facile post from the King of Simple, dodging any substantive part of various posts as per form. What's the mantra: Hampo all-bad; Nank all-good? (repeat ad nauseam until all on PRE are brainwashed).

So that was one quarter of the game = 1/4. For the other 3 Qrts, where Norf were well on top, their rucks thrashed them. So Cats came to a standstill. I think they tried this out of desperation. The fact that it appeared to work, non-nonplussed Norf. That's what is interesting.

I do agree with you on this, but it's actually an area of interest, exploration and development for everyone that follows the game, including the coaches themselves. So not an area of defined knowledge yet at all, not just for the likes of you and me! Because, from what I can see, this tactic threw Norf out. They should have been able to capitalise on it, but probably failed to find the best way about it. All ruck tactics are now somewhat in transition due to the contingencies thrown up by the NTMU rules and interpretations. There is no definitive way to go as yet; countering more midfielders down waiting to read the HO from ruck who is virtually certain to win the HO is the challenge. Maybe Norf bigs needed to hit it wider but away from goals, boundary-side. Not sure.

But coaches will keep experimenting, that's for sure.

OTOH, will also credit you with recognising Stef Martin's abilities. Must admit I hadn't taken enough notice of him until you pointed him out last year. He is a top performer who beat Nank well yesterday (thought you'd be pointing that out, but apparently only against Hampson who I think from memory did better in 2016 game, certainly in HOs), although our man did enough to stay competitive. But Martin is a beast for a similarly under-sized ruck. When Lions develop their FL talls, he will really come into his own.

 

[leon]

we beat them 7 goals to 1 in scores from stoppages

Did Nank win the stoppages and kick all 7 too?

 

[josey]

I'm liking the relief marking option his providing around the ground , like the fact he pushes back an forward and is still in the contest when the ball hits the ground , doesn't have to be a great tap ruckman for us to become a good clearence unit, mids will only get better the more they play under him.

Yeah that's how I see it too.

If he can breath nullify the tap and then work at the contest it's a great advantage to our mids. It's how Ivan did it at his best.

 

[lamb22]

Ranked Elite by Champion Data.

 

[leon]

Ranked Elite by Champion Data.

Ha! Funny! Coach's votes:

Full voting details for the Round 4 Richmond v Brisbane match are . . .

8 – Jack Riewoldt (Richmond)
5 – Shaun Grigg (Richmond)
5 – Stefan Martin (Brisbane)
4 – Jason Castagna (Richmond)
4 – Tom Rockliff (Brisbane)
3 – David Astbury (Richmond)
1 – Mitch Robinson (Brisbane)

But what would the coaches know compared to Chop Suey, or CD?

 

[YinnarTiger]

Either Grigg or Martin got 5 votes from 1 coach and 0 from the other.

 

[Coburgtiger]

Ha! Funny! Coach's votes:

Full voting details for the Round 4 Richmond v Brisbane match are . . .

8 – Jack Riewoldt (Richmond)
5 – Shaun Grigg (Richmond)
5 – Stefan Martin (Brisbane)
4 – Jason Castagna (Richmond)
4 – Tom Rockliff (Brisbane)
3 – David Astbury (Richmond)
1 – Mitch Robinson (Brisbane)

But what would the coaches know compared to Chop Suey, or CD?

What on earth does the fact that another player got five votes in one game have anything to do with whether or not Nankervis is rated as elite for his position at the moment?

 

[leon]

Well, Coburg. It goes like this.
Firstly, there's a thing called context; it goes a long way back to Lamby citing SMartin as a striking contrast to Hampson over 2016, thus referenced in posts between us.
Secondly, he was Nank's direct opponent this game. IMHO, although Nank battled hard, Martin clearly beat him soundly by most parameters, although some didn't seem willing to be honest/realistic about this.
Thirdly, Champion Data. Some rate it; others thing it's crappy. (e.g. See some of Zip's posts!! Don't they rate Sheds as elite too? That's one I'ma little more accepting of than Zips). TBH, I've never really examined it that closely. Think I once had a look for their website and either didn't find satisfactorily/you needed login crap etc./or found it boring. Can't remember. As I've said before, I'll never claim to be a stats guru. I do find too many boring and tedious to pore over and suspect nothing that revelatory may be hiding there. So, in short, not sure CD is all that indisputable a source.

Personally, from my POV, Nankervis' effort in 2016 has been really good, but not sure I'd call him elite at all yet. He hasn't had a decisive win over any of the ruck opponents he has played as yet, and well beaten by Giles (assisted by Vardy) and S.Martin. He has his best ahead of him and will benefit from greater support. Griffith's return for a start.

 

[DeathNinthandTaxes]

Well, Coburg. It goes like this.
Firstly, there's a thing called context; it goes a long way back to Lamby citing SMartin as a striking contrast to Hampson over 2016, thus referenced in posts between us.
Secondly, he was Nank's direct opponent this game. IMHO, although Nank battled hard, Martin clearly beat him soundly by most parameters, although some didn't seem willing to be honest/realistic about this.
Thirdly, Champion Data. Some rate it; others thing it's crappy. (e.g. See some of Zip's posts!! Don't they rate Sheds as elite too? That's one I'ma little more accepting of than Zips). TBH, I've never really examined it that closely. Think I once had a look for their website and either didn't find satisfactorily/you needed login crap etc./or found it boring. Can't remember. As I've said before, I'll never claim to be a stats guru. I do find too many boring and tedious to pore over and suspect nothing that revelatory may be hiding there. So, in short, not sure CD is all that indisputable a source.

Personally, from my POV, Nankervis' effort in 2016 has been really good, but not sure I'd call him elite at all yet. He hasn't had a decisive win over any of the ruck opponents he has played as yet, and well beaten by Giles (assisted by Vardy) and S.Martin. He has his best ahead of him and will benefit from greater support. Griffith's return for a start.

Leon would you be able to provide a bulleted list of your arguments and conclusions regarding Nankervis and hampson.
Many discussions on many threads and your point is not yet clear. Can you be a little succinct in what it is you're saying?

For mine, the visual test shows me Nankervis is a better player and does more for theteam than Hampson.
Marking, tackleing, kicking, groundwork and smarts. He can't tap as well though.