Fair call leysy but if you commit to a player its higher than likely you will pick that player more for the long term. Not the first and surely not the last where injured players have been picked looking long term.
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Matthew Clarke
- Thread starter Harry
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Fair call leysy but if you commit to a player its higher than likely you will pick that player more for the long term. Not the first and surely not the last where injured players have been picked looking long term.
I agree scoop and I will say that Durham showed very good signs. Well done to Essendon for identifying his worth.
All I have said "in general talk" but people not you get all defensive when we challenge the recruiters/club on some of their moves.
Just on the Sonz, I have hawks mates who said sonsie is soft in the contest and doesnt run hard enough, plays the game almost laconic. Hence why they didn't pick him up when they had the chance..
On Soligo he's exactly what we needed as what young mids were coming through our system?
Nice pic.Lmfaoooooo i am talking two players in our system what part of that didn't register with you?
Btw soligo went at 36 obviously crows rated him. Again did you not read even an inch of my post i myself saw signs of Durham as a player liked his speed and not afraid to go in. We could've spoken to him to go into the ND as we had 5 picks.
You asked how much better would we look with Durham, you oculd ask the same about another 100 players in the league. We had no chance to draft him- surely you can find an example of stuff up we did make, without getting it wrong.
at this stage it looks like we got Soligo wrong, as did other teams who had the chance but didnt take- the Cats had 3 picks, and picked a mid just before Soligo who hasnt debuted yet. The Swans drafted 2 mids before Soligo who have totaled less than 30 games between them. Many other ignored him and in hindsight it looks like they shouldnt have.
There are some pretty good judges of junior talent on here, but Soligo dropped to 58- I'd have to go back and check who drafted Sonsie, but im pretty sure he went a lot earlier.
Sometimes kids drop at draft time when they shouldnt cos recruiters try to be too clever, but sometimes guys just thrive unexpectedly in the AFL environment. Soligo appears to be the 2nd type.
There is a stack of Durham's out there, getting the opportunity is half the battle. I think they will come more into vogue, in today's landscape getting 60-100 games over 4-5 years is invaluable. And those types are ready to go from the day you draft them. The injury crisis and schedule is only going to tighten up when another team comes in. Having a few mature bodies in the background is becoming more common. Probally why we resigned Mansell, I was harsh on that decision. Low cost, low risk foot solider who gives his all. Two more years isn't a huge opportunity cost. If he is best 22 in 18 months time, we have bigger issues.
And on Sonise and Soligo, we had a chance to buddy up the two of them. The Lions have done it well to build their group that had continued success from a low base, they've taken a lot of Vic Country boys so they have a lot of people around them from similar backgrounds. They still draft on talent but if things are lineball, they look at that aspect. Off the ground, it's been very family-involved at the Lions and all of the players are required to know the family structures and actively talk to family members when they are up there. We could have paired the two Rowville Secondry College boys together, it was no secret they were best mates. If it was line ball at any stage, this could have been a tiebreaker. You'll never know if this works completely but bundling up all of these 1%'ers helps.
We need Solgio and Sonsie's type at the draft, there were best mates, which seems a reasonable assumption that would turn into the best versions of themselves working next to each other.
Glad you liked it
Could we have picked soligo or do you need a phantom draft to help you identify if he's any good? We missed on Soligo plain and simple we got it wrong.We have paid recruiters that's my point its their job to identify these players and we had one/two under our noses. Dont get all defensive on my post saying how much better we would look. On Durham it's not all black and white again if we rated him well maybe we just didn't but if we did, could've tried to convince him to go to the ND with a promise to pick him up. I did state, If a club truly wants a player on their list they'll do their best to try and make it happen. Granted it is not guaranteed but a show of faith from the club.
my view was "Truck" knew both players Massimo and Durham to forced the issue to pick them. Also remember the other hard nut who essendon picked up and then release, came back to Richmond Reserve list. Nothing to do with their recruitment manager spotting talent.
We keep bringing them into our VFL team. We missed Durham but we got Trezise. Hopefully we pick up Davidson tomorrow night. Then there's EL Nour, Johnson, McCarthy, (maybe May, not sold he's athletic enough). Someone might give Wilson a chance. Our VFL recruiters are doing a stellar job.
What PRE did is the worst possible metric to judge anything on.
And what other clubs needs did is irrelevant, it's "what about ism" at its core. We need theed the type. And Soligo thriving in and AFL environment wasn't unexpected. The Crows have publicly commented on they knew he would fit into AFL environment right away. They did their homework and knew what they were getting. There is no out, or into of pure luck in the process of the Crows. It was our process that got it wrong.
We can't lament the past and can only move forward now. Toce has a big task ahead of him rebuilding our list with Blair as winning all those premierships made us ignore this area . I still think in the list shown that Matty has nailed a few good picks and i believe it's more with our FD player development and fitness that has gone backwards.
Need to up the fitness department as well as assistant coaches. We are seeing improvement in Junior, Miller, Hugo, Ross etc
National Draft picks since 2017
2017
Jack Higgins- Dud, but got pick 17 for him which gave us Tom Brown. WIN
Callum Coleman-Jones- Dud , but got us pick 40 in 23 i believe. Kane McAulliiffe WIN
Noah Balta WIN
Patrick Naish FAIL
Ben Miller WIN
2018
Riley Collier-Dawkins FAIL
Jack Ross WIN
Fraser Turner FAIL
Luke English FAIL
2019
Thomson Dow FAIL LIKELY
Noah Cumberland FAIL LIKELY
Hugo Ralphsmith WIN
Bigoa Nyuon FAIL
2020
Samson Ryan FAIL LIKELY
Maurice Rioli Jr. WIN
2021
Josh Gibcus WIN
Tom Brown WIN
Tyler Sonsie FAIL LIKELY
Samuel Banks FAIL LIKELY
Judson Clarke WIN LIKELY
2022
Kaleb Smith UNCERTAIN
Steely Green LIKELY FAIL
2023
Kane McAuliffe WIN
Liam Fawcett TBC
WE'VE REALLY STRUGGLED WITH OUR BIG MEN DRAFTING AND HIGH SPEED AND SKILLED MIDS.
Need to up the fitness department as well as assistant coaches. We are seeing improvement in Junior, Miller, Hugo, Ross etc
National Draft picks since 2017
2017
Jack Higgins- Dud, but got pick 17 for him which gave us Tom Brown. WIN
Callum Coleman-Jones- Dud , but got us pick 40 in 23 i believe. Kane McAulliiffe WIN
Noah Balta WIN
Patrick Naish FAIL
Ben Miller WIN
2018
Riley Collier-Dawkins FAIL
Jack Ross WIN
Fraser Turner FAIL
Luke English FAIL
2019
Thomson Dow FAIL LIKELY
Noah Cumberland FAIL LIKELY
Hugo Ralphsmith WIN
Bigoa Nyuon FAIL
2020
Samson Ryan FAIL LIKELY
Maurice Rioli Jr. WIN
2021
Josh Gibcus WIN
Tom Brown WIN
Tyler Sonsie FAIL LIKELY
Samuel Banks FAIL LIKELY
Judson Clarke WIN LIKELY
2022
Kaleb Smith UNCERTAIN
Steely Green LIKELY FAIL
2023
Kane McAuliffe WIN
Liam Fawcett TBC
WE'VE REALLY STRUGGLED WITH OUR BIG MEN DRAFTING AND HIGH SPEED AND SKILLED MIDS.
Why? not the first and certainly not the last that clubs have told players to go in the ND on a commitment to picking them. You seemed surprised like this doesn't happen.
Anyway, doesn't change how it all unfolded i guess I was looking in the crystal ball on how it would've looked for us with these 2.
As a list of years and names it really provides no insights. Providing pick number for each play provides just a little more context.
I agree, but 22 and 23 were unfair as he lost both first and second round picks in those years. I just copied someone's post on the years. With our success from 17-20 we were never going to get good picks. I was mainly looking at the players chosen and their progress.
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I think Matt went away from what made our premiership era great in what was a team of fast and competitive players to compliment our champions. One thing Higgins, Dow, CCJ, RCD, Turner, English, Naish and Banks all have in common is they lack either pace or the ability to compete. Some of them both. I believe he also got to cute thinking he new better than others and consistently went left field in his selections.
Anyway he has lead our list to the state it's in. Lets hope Toce can turn it around starting in this mid season draft.
Anyway he has lead our list to the state it's in. Lets hope Toce can turn it around starting in this mid season draft.
Horrible assessment. No nuance at all.
No pick number, no analysis of players who've gone afterwards that we may have missed. Eg comparative depth of the draft. The player might be not AFL level, but if every pick around them is also not AFL level, then have our recruiters actually failed? Drafts like RCD and Dow were very thin. Not many decent players around who weren't committed to other clubs (nga etc)
Higgins is anything but a dud. Leaving our club does not indicate he's a failure. He's rated elite for goals and handball numbers for a small forward, above average for disposals.
You need to consider the likelihood you'll get a player who exceeds the amount of games for a player of a similar pick.
Eg Samson Ryan. You'd be lucky to get probably 30 games out of a player at that pick. If he gets to 30, it's probably a par performance.
First round, second round etc means nothing to me anymore. When you can have so many FS and Academy picks, 2nd round starts at pick 39. It's all about the number of the pick (probability of success), development coaching (realisation or not of the probability) and determination of the individual to work.
I just quoted a list that everybody else was referring to. You could do this for 17 other clubs and talk about all their hits and misses so that means zero. I'M clearly looking at who he picked and whether they were passes or fails. Higgins gave us a successful pick and i rate him as a dud. You can rate him however you wish.
True?
Yeah, what other clubs did is probably irrelevant. But so is what a club says about one of their players. They all talk them up. and so is picking out 1 player to do hindsight drafting. You cannot tell me for sure that Soligo showed all the traits that meant he was going to 100% be a good AFL player- otherwise he would have been drafted earlier. And likewise you cannot tell me 100% that he hasnt improved more than anyone could have thought likely since he entered the system.
Credit to Adelaide though, they drafted a kid earlier than expected, and look to have got it right.
I must go back and see who drafted Sonsie though, just for reference. Maybe Poshie got em both.
Name one player who hasnt nominated for the MSD and instead waited 6 months to be picked up by their preferred club?
You are trying to pot Richmond's recruiting because they didnt do something they couldnt have done!- and that is draft Durham after he played VFL for us.
