Matthew Clarke

[shad]

I think using Higgins is a poor example, and a bit unseemly in this debate. Despite his perceived limitations he was looking like a find early days and made a real impact. The Collingwood debacle in 2018 showed what kind of contribution he could make.

The kid had brain cancer ffs-not exactly a standard variable in any discussion about player success. And after he survived I reckon he's gone "smile" it I'm alive and I want to live out my boyhood dream and play for the Saints. If he can clean up his goal kicking he will turn into a great player. What an amazing achievement that would be after all he's been through.

If he's considered a draft bust how do people descibe Ben Lennon?

 

[tigersnake]

By that measure 2001 was a pass for us (Rodan and Hyde, a"good: player and a "decent" player by your definition), when it was actually an unmitigated *smile* ing disaster.

Unmitigated disaster? Are you smiling serious? we had picks 33, 63, 68 and 77. Crap picks. To find any 2 players who played seniors with those picks, in an era of routine bad drafting by us when we had good picks, means it was not an unmitigated disaster. You could actually make an argument it was a pass with those picks. But it was just your garden variety underwhelming draft really.

The 2004 draft on the other hand...

 

[Bill Haverchuck]

Is our general approach still 1st rnd best available and later picks needs?
I have often wondered if at least our 2nd rounders should be best too , perhaps they are now given last years draft...

 

[Leysy Days]

I actually asked Dimma at Club 80 whether we placed an emphasis on foot skills this last draft due to rule changes.
He said no, but they did place an emphasis on athletic ability as the game demands it more than ever.
To this end you are correct regarding a shift in priority however if the emphasis is determined by the coaching team, then how do we blame Clarke? Think you’ll find

There we go Snake. Proof that we have changed tact in our recruitment (back towards) guys with athletic ability i.e. guys who are quick and fit in our recruitment.

Not down to simply how high our draft picks were like you suggest.

 

[King Kong]

The problem for CCJ is Xerri looks to have taken a pretty big leap as ruck, and spent more time in there than Goldstein who they have also been playing forward alongside Larkey and Zurhaar. So if he wanted to play as a ruckman, someone has leapfrogged him in the space of one offseason. Agree with your comments regarding him playing forward in a side like North. He'd be close to the VFL if Noble decides that they're too tall.

The problem with CCJ is he isn't that good. The only thing he can do is take a contested mark when he gets a run at it. Otherwise he is a liability in the ruck and at groundlevel

 

[spook]

Unmitigated disaster? Are you smiling serious? we had picks 33, 63, 68 and 77. Crap picks. To find any 2 players who played seniors with those picks, in an era of routine bad drafting by us when we had good picks, means it was not an unmitigated disaster. You could actually make an argument it was a pass with those picks. But it was just your garden variety underwhelming draft really.

The 2004 draft on the other hand...

Am I smiling serious? Smiling oath I'm smiling serious, for smile's sake.

We had those picks because we traded out of the original Superdraft to bring in Stafford and Hudson. That's abominable judgement of the pool, not to mention terrible overrating of where we were at. Unmitigatedly disastrous recruiting off-season for Richmond in 2001. Hence we went from prelim finalists to spooners in three years (and three years after that, and nearly again two years after that).

Rodan, like Higgins, was a small but mature-bodied Morrish Medallist everyone else overlooked. Like Higgins, he was gone within a few years.

Decent player. Wrong player.

If your first pick in a draft is at another club at 23, it's not a successful pick. Not unless you get a king's ransom for him, which we didn't. Getting your money back is a loss, of time, opportunity, and having a 23-year-old to call on instead of a skinny kid who at this point is just another magic bean.

Hyde we recruited from ourselves. I award us zero points.

Other than a few superstars, 2004 was a poor draft pool. Buddy, Roughy, Lids, Lewis, Griffen, Le Cras, Maric. Not much else.

If a recruiter doesn't know which drafts to invest in and which to trade out of, he's useless.

 

[Smoking Aces]

Am I smiling serious? Smiling oath I'm smiling serious, for smile's sake.

We had those picks because we traded out of the original Superdraft to bring in Stafford and Hudson. That's abominable judgement of the pool, not to mention terrible overrating of where we were at. Unmitigatedly disastrous recruiting off-season for Richmond in 2001. Hence we went from prelim finalists to spooners in three years (and three years after that, and nearly again two years after that).

Rodan, like Higgins, was a small but mature-bodied Morrish Medallist everyone else overlooked. Like Higgins, he was gone within a few years.

Decent player. Wrong player.

If your first pick in a draft is at another club at 23, it's not a successful pick. Not unless you get a king's ransom for him, which we didn't. Getting your money back is a loss, of time, opportunity, and having a 23-year-old to call on instead of a skinny kid who at this point is just another magic bean.

Hyde we recruited from ourselves. I award us zero points.

Other than a few superstars, 2004 was a poor draft pool. Buddy, Roughy, Lids, Lewis, Griffen, Le Cras, Maric. Not much else.

If a recruiter doesn't know which drafts to invest in and which to trade out of, he's useless.

I wonder if we had Blair back in 2004 if we would have traded out of that draft?

 

[Ridley]

If he's considered a draft bust how do people descibe Ben Lennon?

An unmitigated disaster. With Corey Ellis not far behind. Two years in a row we absolutely butchered first round picks on ordinary flankers. Those two picks should be in our midfield rotation now.

But we've won 3 flags since we recruited those two so it ain't all bad!

 

[Ridley]

Unmitigated disaster? Are you smiling serious? we had picks 33, 63, 68 and 77. Crap picks. To find any 2 players who played seniors with those picks, in an era of routine bad drafting by us when we had good picks, means it was not an unmitigated disaster. You could actually make an argument it was a pass with those picks. But it was just your garden variety underwhelming draft really.

The 2004 draft on the other hand...

The disaster with 2001 was giving away our early picks for Adam Houlihan and Greg Stafford. Left us with a first pick at 33 in arguably the best draft ever.

 

[Ridley]

The disaster with 2001 was giving away our early picks for Adam Houlihan and Greg Stafford. Left us with a first pick at 33 in arguably the best draft ever.

And Paul Hudson

 

[Dont Argue]

We got this so wrong. Balta is a huge win but this cannot be a tick. Its a bloodbath. So many options that would‘ve given us serious depth and another 3-5 years of top four football. Turning point of the list.

National

17

Richmond

Jack Higgins

18yr

178cm

76kg

East Malvern/Caulfield Grammar/Oakleigh U18

62 (43)

56

1

Free Agent Compensation (Tom Rockliff)

National

18

Brisbane

Brandon Starcevich

18yr

187cm

84kg

Trinity College (WA)/East Perth

47

2

0

Free Agent Compensation (Steven Motlop)

National

19

Gold Coast

Wil Powell

18yr

184cm

65kg

Scarborough JFC/Claremont

57

12

0

National

20

Richmond

Callum Coleman-Jones

18yr

201cm

99kg

Unley/Scotch College (SA)/Sturt

9

11

1

National

21

West Coast

Oscar Allen

18yr

191cm

83kg

Whitford JFC/West Perth

59

66

11

National

22

Geelong

Lachlan Fogarty

18yr

179cm

75kg

Spotswood/St Kevin's College/Western U18

40 (23)

12

0

National

23

North Melbourne

Will Walker

18yr

187cm

78kg

Hampton Rovers/Sandringham U18

6

4

0

National

24

Geelong

Tim Kelly

23yr

182cm

82kg

Palmyra JFC/South Fremantle

85 (48)

59

58

AA: 2019; AFLCA Young: 2019; AFLPA 1st: 2018

National

25

Richmond

Noah Balta

18yr

195cm

95kg

Doutta Stars/St Bernard's College/Calder U18

44

9

1

Prem: 2020

National

26

West Coast

Liam Ryan

21yr

179cm

71kg

Subiaco

69

100

3

AA: 2020; Prem: 2018

National

27

GWS

Brent Daniels

18yr

171cm

70kg

Nyah-Nyah West United/Bendigo U18/Geelong (VFL)

62

22

2

National

28

GWS

Sam Taylor

18yr

196cm

87kg

Guildford Grammar/Swan Districts

53

1

0

National

29

Melbourne

Charlie Spargo

18yr

172cm

70kg

Scots (Albury)/Albury FC/Murray U18/Western Sydney University

59

42

0

Prem: 2021

National

30

Carlton

Tom De Koning

18yr

200cm

90kg

Mount Martha/Dandenong U18

22

8

0

National

31

Melbourne

Bayley Fritsch

20yr

186cm

74kg

Coldstream/Casey

85

118

8

AA40: 2021; Prem: 2021

National

32

West Coast

Brayden Ainsworth

19yr

183cm

75kg

Esperance Ports/Subiaco

14

4

0

National

33

Sydney

Tom McCartin

17yr

193cm

84kg

St Joseph's/Geelong U18

70

28

0

It reads really poorly but one needs to take into consideration that many of those draftees would have struggled to break into our 22 and therefore would not have had an early opportunity to gain senior experience and to show their wares. Limited senior development can change the entire trajectory. For example if CCJ was given earlier opportunity, what type of player would he be now? Would Taylor, Allen and McCartin be the players they are today if stuck in the twos behind our senior talls?
Not for one moment saying I would have chosen the same combination of players we did but something to consider.
The smaller players in Starcevich, Powell and Daniel’s would have been given earlier exposure no doubt but different clubs, different environments and different opportunities play a big part. Especially when COVID had such a huge impact on the VFL competition where players were denied so much game time over the last two years and stagnated.

 

[tigersnake]

Am I smiling serious? Smiling oath I'm smiling serious, for smile's sake.

We had those picks because we traded out of the original Superdraft to bring in Stafford and Hudson. That's abominable judgement of the pool, not to mention terrible overrating of where we were at. Unmitigatedly disastrous recruiting off-season for Richmond in 2001. Hence we went from prelim finalists to spooners in three years (and three years after that, and nearly again two years after that).

Rodan, like Higgins, was a small but mature-bodied Morrish Medallist everyone else overlooked. Like Higgins, he was gone within a few years.

Decent player. Wrong player.

If your first pick in a draft is at another club at 23, it's not a successful pick. Not unless you get a king's ransom for him, which we didn't. Getting your money back is a loss, of time, opportunity, and having a 23-year-old to call on instead of a skinny kid who at this point is just another magic bean.

Hyde we recruited from ourselves. I award us zero points.

Other than a few superstars, 2004 was a poor draft pool. Buddy, Roughy, Lids, Lewis, Griffen, Le Cras, Maric. Not much else.

If a recruiter doesn't know which drafts to invest in and which to trade out of, he's useless.

fair enough, trading out was an unmitigated disaster. I was talking about the draft in isolation, forgot the trade out. Everything was below the curve back then. Who was in charge of recruiting then? Pre PRE posterboy Beck

 

[Brodders17]

But we don't have a decent player from that draft. We got a refund. You get a refund when you're not satisfied with your purchase.

We didnt push either Higgins or CCJ out the door, both walked because they were offered longer contracts and more money. If it was up to the club both would still be at Richmond, and both would probably be playing AFL.

 

[Little Ziggyadee]

The disaster with 2001 was giving away our early picks for Adam Houlihan and Greg Stafford. Left us with a first pick at 33 in arguably the best draft ever.

Where's Bisscombe pick 9 went to Geelong??

 

[Ridley]

Where's Bisscombe pick 9 went to Geelong??

I reckon that was 2-3 years earlier Zips but yes shocking decision as well.

 

[Little Ziggyadee]

I reckon that was 2-3 years earlier Zips but yes shocking decision as well.

1998
But there were 100 trades made back then.
The supporters/clubs went for the quick fix.
I think Hawthorn were the first to start to not trade away picks.
They would trade BGraders like Croad, Hay, Rawlings, The full forward that went to North etc and get gold in return.
The only player that walked was McPhalin

 

[deedee]

3 fairly resent flags, I think we are still winning at this stage.

 

[spook]

We didnt push either Higgins or CCJ out the door, both walked because they were offered longer contracts and more money. If it was up to the club both would still be at Richmond, and both would probably be playing AFL.

Higgins was contracted. We could have kept him if we'd wanted. We decided to get a refund and reinvest in a player with better traits (speed & skill). CJ, yeah maybe. But he's yet to establish himself as even a decent player, so I'd say we're happy with a refund there too.

 

[Redford]

So, have we worked out yet whether we are sacking Clarke ….or giving him a pay rise and contract extension ?

Why do these things always take so long on PRE ?

 

[spook]

We're thorough, Reds. It's all about Process.