Matt white | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Matt white

Impossible comparison.
You’ve completely discounted development. A player can only reach his ultimate potential in the right environment and with the right coaching. Who knows how good each player would be at different clubs under different coaches?
One very credentialed ex coach/media commentator ( and many agreed ) said that Richmond was the worst team to ever win a Premiership. That alludes to great coaching if you accept any of that stuff.
Only fair comparison is which coach has won 3 Premierships and which one hasn’t. That’s how history will look at it. Over win/loss averages included
Another point of reference would be the amount of AA selections of players at clubs that had dominant eras. Brisvegas, Moggies, Hawforn constantly had numerous players in the AA squad multiple times during their dominant eras. Aside from Dusty we'd be lucky to get anyone else make the team n usually only for the one year.

Nothing but a handy workman like mob that complimented one another and were bloody well coached.
 
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Port’s list were really talked up in the media when White went there. There were media reports how he was only one of their top 5 fastest players, yet when he left Richmond he was considered one of the quickest in the comp, so Port had the 5 quickest blokes in the AFL? Yeah, right. Plenty said they were going to break through for a flag, yet it all went pear shaped quickly. They’re flat track bullies and pretenders. Have been for Ken’s entire time there.
One thing to say they were talked up. I don't recall them doing the talking, but more the media doing it.

Same thing if Richmond was overrated in the media, but the club kept silent. Have to blame the media, not the club.
 
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One thing to say they were talked up. I don't recall them doing the talking, but more the media doing it.

Same thing if Richmond was overrated in the media, but the club kept silent. Have to blame the media, not the club.
I don’t blame them. Just pointing out that they were rated, and more highly than we were. Although their players did have a definite superior attitude, so maybe they believed their press.
 
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Got to disagree. I think Port probably have more talent than us, certainly more elite/very good players.
I think we've had an elite system that protects our bottom talent from being exposed. I seriously can't believe Castagna would survive at any other club for example. But instead of sinking, he's done well.
Kenny has had a lot more talent, but not been able to pull it together. I think their window is shut now.
My arse pa have more talent , who are their backs that rival Rance, grimes vlastuin houli baker astbury
Forward to rival triple Coleman jack and lynch
Cotch and 3 x norm smith dusty
Don’t let the likes of George overshadow our gilt edged talent , they ain’t in the same league and you couldn’t keep a straight face if you put their equivalents up
 
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Please. Hardwick's not a wizard but he's not had a dead-set premiership lineup in any of the years we won the flag IMO. In fact, in 2020 we beat Port, at Home, with against a Port squad on paper that I think was every bit as strong as the Tiges lineup. The difference was system and culture. FWIW I think Hinkley's failed to get the most from a strong list for 8 or 9 years now.
Lol youve actually countered your own initial statement , I wouldn’t describe dimma as a wizard however he’s criminally underrated in the pantheon of coaching , some folk must think it’s easy to make 3 x GF and go bang bang bang The fact that he continues to enrich the org culture and employ a winning system says plenty about his coaching ability
 
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Who was the coach of Port when they flogged us in the 2014 Elimination Final?
He would have been considered a good coach with a superior list then. Fast forward 3 seasons to 2017 and Hardwick turns a team of battlers into Premiership superstars.
I’d take Dimma every day of the week
 
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My arse pa have more talent , who are their backs that rival Rance, grimes vlastuin houli baker astbury
Forward to rival triple Coleman jack and lynch
Cotch and 3 x norm smith dusty
Don’t let the likes of George overshadow our gilt edged talent , they ain’t in the same league and you couldn’t keep a straight face if you put their equivalents up
We weren't a team of champions, but a champion team.
We may have higher highs, but also lower lows. That's my point re: Hardwick.
He's the superior coach because he took all the parts and made a three time premier. Kenny had a more even spread of talent , and couldn't get past us.
 
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Lol youve actually countered your own initial statement , I wouldn’t describe dimma as a wizard however he’s criminally underrated in the pantheon of coaching , some folk must think it’s easy to make 3 x GF and go bang bang bang The fact that he continues to enrich the org culture and employ a winning system says plenty about his coaching ability
Lol you've said exactly what I said, and somehow managed to be an illiterate *smile* about it.
 
We weren't a team of champions, but a champion team.
We may have higher highs, but also lower lows. That's my point re: Hardwick.
He's the superior coach because he took all the parts and made a three time premier. Kenny had a more even spread of talent , and couldn't get past us.
I think you’re underselling plenty of Richmond legends that PA wouldn’t even come close , dead set laughable comparison
 
Quit your limp insults , perhaps pull yourself together before posting with disparaging remark first then completely contradicting it next
What was my disparaging remark? I think if you go read the thread you'll perhaps get some context. I wasn't contradicting myself, I was reinforcing another person's point that Hardwick had done a great job not through wizardry but through building a professional team and strong culture.
 
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If we were so much better why were we the underdog in that game?

The underdog in the 2017 finals series?

The underdog in 2020?

There is no doubt a philosophical change from end 2016 to 2017 was the catalyst for our improvement. Hardwick led that.

To argue Hinkley would have done just as well is impossible to prove.

Hinkley has had his opportunity to achieve similar success given their strong H&A form over a number of seasons. That he hasn't been able to get the best out of his players in finals is telling.
We were underdogs in 2017 - final one - Geelong had belted us for years. Who wouldn’t have had them favourites? I nearly teared up when we beat them. Against GWS - think we were even money. Adelaide finished top of the ladder home and away, cruised into the Grannie and were cherry ripe. I had them favourites too. Tex Walker certainly did,as he had another seat on the plane beside him to take the premiership cup home. Despite this our percentage against Geelong,GWS and Adelaide for the finals series was 180%. We didn’t just win those games….we s—t them in.

2020 was a different year for all reasons. Covid. Again Geelong finished higher than us on the ladder. Games played interstate. We had to beat Port at Port to get the GF which we did. Low scorer winning by 6 points but 6 more scoring shots. Tough game in the wet. Port beat Geelong week 1 and we lost to Brissie week 1. Geelong belted Collingwood in the semi and cruised past Brisbanehad an easier game. The quarters were shorter in 2020 as well at season which suited Geelong as their list was older than ours and they could be vulnerable late in quarters. Spotted them 21 point lead and won by 31.

As my old man always said. “A champion team will always beat a team of champions”
 
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One coach has Dustin Martin and the other doesn't. ;)
One coach had a distinct Home ground advantage.11 in fact plus finals including the prelim.
Not to mention us sending over our vfl team and still winning.
But yeah Hinkley is a better coach.lol
 
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far from a dud but you have to look at who on our list he was competing with for a midfield/wing role
I think fair to say this lot were better then ,
Lids , Dusty , Cotch , B Ellis , Grigg , Edwards , Dan Jackson , Jake King

this lot he might claim he was above them
conca , Matt Dea, Miles , Matt Thomas(r) , Aaron edwards

they didn't last long and Matt was offrered a 3yr contract ? , which looks like it had him pretty close to the right place in the pecking order

he was often referred to as an athlete and not a "footballer" and would make mistakes that reinforced it
I did get a feel he might have been on the outer with in the list , but thats purely a guess

Dimma and his offsiders hadn't got the Richmond Man thing fully up and running . I wonder if he arrived at Punt Rd 4-5 years later
it would have been a very different situation , both football and culture ?
He played AFL for 12 years and 150 games. I dunno % but I suspect is better than 60% who get drafted.

I have no great love for White as a player but saying had a decent career.

I suspect he would have played to instruction and 'selflessly' in coordination with the whole 'Richmond Man' malarkey. Hard running, 'limited' defensive pressure small forward.... sounds familiar.
 
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One coach had a distinct Home ground advantage.11 in fact plus finals including the prelim.
Not to mention us sending over our vfl team and still winning.
But yeah Hinkley is a better coach.lol
And if you’re talking about the 2019 game, Dustin was suspended that week!
 
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