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Lyon's Request to "Rest" Fremantle players for Round 23
- Thread starter Tigerdangerous
- Start date
Ice said:
There is a mid point where we could have rested a handful of older players and still been 95-100%. You have to trust your squad depth if you want to play in late September.
KB had an interesting idea this morning. Clubs nominate a 26 man squad to play the last round and the first final. Obviously real injuries can be catered for but the idea is the core of your team will remain the same.
Not sure it would fly though
Not sure it would fly though
Col.W.Kurtz said:
For example, if An association football club was playing an fa cup, or champions league final the following week
99% of senior coaches would rest the majority of the best team. It common sense
Ross Lyon knows it
Scott knows it
A very Australian, dare I say bogan mentality 'Norf are weak as p!ss' for getting team right for finals.
Afl is 5-15 years behind world trend. IMHO.
Been thinking long and hard about this resting players business and in particular why it seems not to be such a big issue with other sports,
and I have come to the conclusion that it's due to:-
* anomalies in the finals system,
* compared to other sports, the fact that so many teams make the finals, and,
* a set of very rare circumstances.
So much so that I think it's a bit of a storm in a teacup and in particular, the media are blowing it all out of proportion and the AFL should have never made up some stupid rule about integrity when Ross Lyon did it whenever he did it.
First, North knew that if they lost to us, they would almost certainly be playing us again next week ... in Melbourne.
A win opened up the potential that they may have been going to Adelaide ... a travel and indeed a team they probably fear more.
Part of this was the coincidence that they were playing Richmond - the very team they could securely lose to to guarantee the preferred re-match next week.
A big part of the problem is that there is really very little functional difference between finishing 5th to 8th in the final eight.
From all four positions, the equation is the same ... four knockout finals to win the flag.
The *only* difference is that you get a home final if you finish 5th or 6th.
And here is a crucial part ... there is NO difference between 5th and 6th, and between 7th and 8th.
So the incentive of winning late games in the season is gone, in particular when you consider that the presence of an interstate team likely to finish 6th means that you might even prefer to finish 8th than 7th (also the fact that there is a bunch of 10 Victorian teams means it will often be likely that there will be a better option - i.e. playing another Victorian team even if you didn't earn the right to a home final).
I still think 5th should be able to select their opponent out of 7th and 8th.
If we finish 5th, Adelaide 7th and North 8th, it is possible we may prefer to play Adelaide because they would have to travel.
We had this scenario in 2013 as well with us finishing 5th, Port 7th and Carlton 8th.
We should have been given the option of playing Port.
It would give incentive to finish 5th over 6th, and in the case of this year, left North with less reason to throw last night's game, which I am sure they did, because they could not have been sure who their opponent in the first week of the finals would be.
And to why this is not a problem in other sports around the world ... so few other sports have finals systems with so many teams in them.
Baseball ... only the top team goes to the post season. Second place getters may get a wild card but that still means you would always want to finish 1st over 2nd, and 2nd over anything else.
Soccer ... complete league systems with no finals at all - top team gets the flag. Or the cup where every game is a knockout match.
I can't think of many other high profile professional sporting competitions with finals systems that offer such scope for anomalies like this.
I like the current final eight and I can't think of too many better options that would last only four weeks. The idea above would help a bit.
This is the 16th season of this system and this hasn't been a problem until now, and it's a unique set of circumstances.
As for Freo ... they wrapped up top spot early and deserve to do what they want.
It's just not logical to legislate against the resting of players when it suits the team's goals.
and I have come to the conclusion that it's due to:-
* anomalies in the finals system,
* compared to other sports, the fact that so many teams make the finals, and,
* a set of very rare circumstances.
So much so that I think it's a bit of a storm in a teacup and in particular, the media are blowing it all out of proportion and the AFL should have never made up some stupid rule about integrity when Ross Lyon did it whenever he did it.
First, North knew that if they lost to us, they would almost certainly be playing us again next week ... in Melbourne.
A win opened up the potential that they may have been going to Adelaide ... a travel and indeed a team they probably fear more.
Part of this was the coincidence that they were playing Richmond - the very team they could securely lose to to guarantee the preferred re-match next week.
A big part of the problem is that there is really very little functional difference between finishing 5th to 8th in the final eight.
From all four positions, the equation is the same ... four knockout finals to win the flag.
The *only* difference is that you get a home final if you finish 5th or 6th.
And here is a crucial part ... there is NO difference between 5th and 6th, and between 7th and 8th.
So the incentive of winning late games in the season is gone, in particular when you consider that the presence of an interstate team likely to finish 6th means that you might even prefer to finish 8th than 7th (also the fact that there is a bunch of 10 Victorian teams means it will often be likely that there will be a better option - i.e. playing another Victorian team even if you didn't earn the right to a home final).
I still think 5th should be able to select their opponent out of 7th and 8th.
If we finish 5th, Adelaide 7th and North 8th, it is possible we may prefer to play Adelaide because they would have to travel.
We had this scenario in 2013 as well with us finishing 5th, Port 7th and Carlton 8th.
We should have been given the option of playing Port.
It would give incentive to finish 5th over 6th, and in the case of this year, left North with less reason to throw last night's game, which I am sure they did, because they could not have been sure who their opponent in the first week of the finals would be.
And to why this is not a problem in other sports around the world ... so few other sports have finals systems with so many teams in them.
Baseball ... only the top team goes to the post season. Second place getters may get a wild card but that still means you would always want to finish 1st over 2nd, and 2nd over anything else.
Soccer ... complete league systems with no finals at all - top team gets the flag. Or the cup where every game is a knockout match.
I can't think of many other high profile professional sporting competitions with finals systems that offer such scope for anomalies like this.
I like the current final eight and I can't think of too many better options that would last only four weeks. The idea above would help a bit.
This is the 16th season of this system and this hasn't been a problem until now, and it's a unique set of circumstances.
As for Freo ... they wrapped up top spot early and deserve to do what they want.
It's just not logical to legislate against the resting of players when it suits the team's goals.
Brad Sewell floated a concept whereby the top 6 clubs get a week off and the clubs placed lower, I think it was the next 4 rungs play off for the remaining two finals spots. I think he got it from the NFL. It's not entirely without merit, I also think I've messed it up in translation. I sort of heard top 6 get a week off and didn't listen to it carefully because it would mean we were safe and Norf wouldn't have 'managed' their team like last night.
Footy Is a bit of a joke on general:
Teams wanting to finish lower for draft picks
Draft rules made up on the go by the league
Not playing every team one, or twice. Just making up a draw to suit the afl
Etc.
Teams wanting to finish lower for draft picks
Draft rules made up on the go by the league
Not playing every team one, or twice. Just making up a draw to suit the afl
Etc.
