List Management 2023

[Leysy Days]

Melbourne traded a future first as well as that year's pick 10 for Jake Lever in 2017.

In 2018 they traded Jesse Hogan out for pick 6 and 23, traded 6 for Steven May and drafted Tom Sparrow.

In 2019 they traded their 2020 first-rounder along with picks 26 and 50 for pick 8, which they then traded to Freo for picks 10, 28 (Trent Rivers) and Carlton's 2020 fourth-rounder. With pick 10 (became 12 after bids) they drafted Kozi Pickett.

In 2020 they traded their 2021 2nd and 4th-rounders for picks 33 and 50, and their 2021 third-rounder for pick 43 and Brisbane's 2021 4th-rounder. They got a future 3rd for Mitch Hannan from the Dogs and pick 31 for Preuss from GWS. They upgraded 31 and 43 to 25 in a deal with Sydney, who needed points for Campbell. They traded picks 26, 33 and Brisbane's future 4th for Ben Brown, pick 28 and Norf's future 4th. They traded picks 25, 68, 69 and their 2021 1st-rounder for picks 18, 19 (Jake Bowey, Bailey Laurie) and Brisbane's 2021 2nd-rounder.

In 2021, they traded their 2022 1st-rounder and picks 33 and 45 and got picks 17 (Jacob van Rooyen), 37 (Blake Howes) and 49 (traded to St Kilda at the draft) in a four-club deal with the Dogs, Adelaide and St Kilda.

In 2022, they got Freo's 2022 and 2023 1st-rounders and 2023 2nd for Jackson.

So, I make it four premiership players, a 10-year key forward, a fringie and some yet to be determined kids for trading four future firsts.

If you know what you want, what you'll need to get it and the relative strength of draft pools (not exact by any means, especially a year out), it can work.

They've done great business the past six years, hence they've won a flag and are a big chance to do it again, while still regenerating their list.

Know @Brodders17 disagrees, but (with Wells now in semi-retirement and handed over to Mackie) it shows why Tim Lamb (with Jason Taylor riding shot-gun) is now the number one list managerment/recruiting team in the game.

Those examples above show why he's gone hast Hartley (definitely) and probably Beatson.

Brilliant pro-active trading to move the chess pieces to get in the players they want.

What odds they get Harley Reid (pick 1) this off-season. Imagine pulling that off, even more-so if they win the flag. You can be sure he'll have a serious crack. They'd build a statue.

Blair has been fantastic for us, but has rested on his laurels (draft picks) too much in recent off seasons. Our list is a bit out of kilter with class in the front half as well.

Add what could (ILO) will be a long-lasting banana skin with the Hopper trade and his legacy/performance is in danger of taking a hit. As well as our on-field performances.

Needs to get back to the Hartley that engineered our dynasty.

 

[Flea74]

Wouldn't that leave us with 7 spots to fill on our main list? Where are we getting another 7 main list quality players from?

i'd think the club would have a couple of free-agents in mind. but i have no idea who. Gresham (saints) maybe?
Or perhaps the club have spoke to players like Thomas (north) or Koskitshke (hawks) and are trying to work out unrelated player trades (to those players ive mentioned above). I dont have answers. just a different look.
... perhaps the club would then bundle up the Suns first round pick with our current second rounder (atm #25) and swap it to the Crows for 9,20 &23? giving us 3 kids or maybe one of those used on Henry (freo)?
*if the Hawks want Smith (Bulldogs)- that'll cost them pick 3. then they might deal Koshitske for our pick 44 to give them another pick in the draft.?

 

[Mantikorr]

Bauer, Pickett, Miller, Campbell, Coulthard, Nyuon, Trezise and Young are all on the rookie list according to footywire. So we could upgrade several of them.

I didn't realise we had so many rookie listed. Bauer, Coulthard, Trezise and Young at least should all be pushing for more senior appearances next season

 

[Leysy Days]

Name	Years Service	Status
Bigoa Nyuon​	4​	Unrestricted Free Agent​
Hugo Ralphsmith​	4​	Non-Free Agent​
Jack Riewoldt​	17​	Unrestricted Free Agent​
Jacob Bauer​	2​	Non-Free Agent​
Jason Castagna​	9​	Non-Free Agent​
Kaelan Bradtke​	1​	Non-Free Agent​
Mate Colina​	3​	Non-Free Agent​
Rhyan Mansell​	4​	Non-Free Agent​
Robbie Tarrant​	2​	Unrestricted Free Agent​
Thomson Dow​	4​	Non-Free Agent​
Trent Cotchin​	16​	Unrestricted Free Agent​

From that, obviously:

Chimp
Jack
George
Tarrant

Then likely:

Biggy
Hugo (we might try to trade first), then you'd imagine delist
Bradtke
Colina (though doesn't create a spot)

Outside chance:

Mansell

Stays:

Dow done enough to earn another year.
Bauer defo stays

No idea how many list spots that leaves as rookies get too confusing for Leysy. With mid-season picks etc. @mrposhman will know more.

Then add some of the contracted players we might try to trade or get off the books - Miller, KMac, Pickett. Know not huge contracts, but not great by Blair restricting our flexibility, Miller especially.

 

[bullus_hit]

Know @Brodders17 disagrees, but (with Wells now in semi-retirement and handed over to Mackie) it shows why Tim Lamb (with Jason Taylor riding shot-gun) is now the number one list managerment/recruiting team in the game.

Those examples above show why he's gone hast Hartley (definitely) and probably Beatson.

Brilliant pro-active trading to move the chess pieces to get in the players they want.

What odds they get Harley Reid (pick 1) this off-season. Imagine pulling that off, even more-so if they win the flag. You can be sure he'll have a serious crack. They'd build a statue.

Blair has been fantastic for us, but has rested on his laurels (draft picks) too much in recent off seasons. Our list is a bit out of kilter with class in the front half as well.

Add what could (ILO) will be a long-lasting banana skin with the Hopper trade and his legacy/performance is in danger of taking a hit. As well as our on-field performances.

Needs to get back to the Hartley that engineered our dynasty.

Indeed, great posting of late Leysy, I think you have identified most of our shortcomings and the need for both Clarke & Hartley to go back to the key ingredients that earnt the club three flags. Building a premiership list takes time, it needs to be well planned to get everyone clicking in unison and there needs to be some element of robbing Peter to pay Paul (see Deledio trade).

 

[Brodders17]

Know @Brodders17 disagrees

I would never disagree with you, Navy,

The Dees have certainly got a lot right since recruiting Lever and May (both of which they were criticised for early on when they fell back down the ladder in 2019).
Funnily enough the Dees future tall forwards eggs are all very much in the JVR basket- (and maybe defender turned key forward Petty).
While your other favourites, the Cats, still rely on a 42yo and Cameron (30+).

That's not a knock on those recruiters, but probably highlights how hard it is to fill key forward spots.

 

[spook]

I would never disagree with you, Navy,

The Dees have certainly got a lot right since recruiting Lever and May (both of which they were criticised for early on when they fell back down the ladder in 2019).
Funnily enough the Dees future tall forwards eggs are all very much in the JVR basket- (and maybe defender turned key forward Petty).
While your other favourites, the Cats, still rely on a 42yo and Cameron (30+).

That's not a knock on those recruiters, but probably highlights how hard it is to fill key forward spots.

Melbourne also drafted Matthew Jefferson last year with one of the picks they got for Jackson.

 

[Brodders17]

Melbourne also drafted Matthew Jefferson last year with one of the picks they got for Jackson.

Yeah, he doesnt suit my argument so I ignored (forgot) him.
But still most likely he will be part of the next generation for the Dees.

The Dees will be an interesting study in their attempts to stay at the top as Gawn and May finish up, and then the likes of Petracca, Oliver and Lever get around 30. They do look well placed for the next year or 3 though.

 

[mrposhman]

From that, obviously:

Chimp
Jack
George
Tarrant

Then likely:

Biggy
Hugo (we might try to trade first), then you'd imagine delist
Bradtke
Colina (though doesn't create a spot)

Outside chance:

Mansell

Stays:

Dow done enough to earn another year.
Bauer defo stays

No idea how many list spots that leaves as rookies get too confusing for Leysy. With mid-season picks etc. @mrposhman will know more.

Then add some of the contracted players we might try to trade or get off the books - Miller, KMac, Pickett. Know not huge contracts, but not great by Blair restricting our flexibility, Miller especially.

George / Tarrant already replaced with Coulthard and Tresize, so we now have 2 many rookies for next years list lodgement. We now have 8 rookies I believe (Coulthard, Tresize, Young, Campbell, Nyoun, Bauer, Miller and Bradtke). There will need to be some movement of these players either by being delisted or upgraded to the main list as we can only have a max of 6.

Cotch, Jack, Tarrant and George off the main list but with 2 extra spots taken on the rookie list, so we only have 2 list spots open right now.

I reckon we take between 5-6 new players in either via FA, DFA's or the drafts and possibly keep a spare spot for the SPP again as we like to use that channel too. So I reckon we need to free up around another 4 spots across the list.

I think Hugo will go via trade and we will probably trade out at least 1 contracted player. The only players I can see that are uncontracted are:
Bauer - I'd be shocked if he isn't given another contract
Biggie - Probably 1 of he or Miller leave the club
Bradtke - Hasn't shown a lot but only been 1 year, I reckon he gets another
Mansell - Reckon he gets an extention
Dow - The way he ended the season he probably get an extension

 

[mrposhman]

What odds they get Harley Reid (pick 1) this off-season. Imagine pulling that off, even more-so if they win the flag. You can be sure he'll have a serious crack. They'd build a statue.

I reckon its a very good chance that Melbourne take the 1st pick and take Reid.

They could trade 5 and 15 (depending where they finish) to West Coast for Pick 1 (probably becomes 6 and 16 by the end of it - possibly as low as 19 though). They may need to throw something else in, would they consider throwing Rivers into the equation? Maybe would even mean Melbourne keep their 1st and use their 2nd.

Pick 5, Rivers and 24 (that they also got from Freo), might be an enticing enough offer for the WC to take. They get Curtin, Rivers and possibly could get Mitch Edwards as a future ruck prospect. You'd have to think about it.

 

[bullus_hit]

I would never disagree with you, Navy,

The Dees have certainly got a lot right since recruiting Lever and May (both of which they were criticised for early on when they fell back down the ladder in 2019).
Funnily enough the Dees future tall forwards eggs are all very much in the JVR basket- (and maybe defender turned key forward Petty).
While your other favourites, the Cats, still rely on a 42yo and Cameron (30+).

That's not a knock on those recruiters, but probably highlights how hard it is to fill key forward spots.

Dees have exceptional depth, Jefferson still cooking, still a year or two off but 23 goals in the VFL not too shabby. They have Schache who is decent depth and can pinch hit in the ruck, JVR as you mentioned, Petty as a swingman, Gawn probably finishes his days up forward. I reckon they will be fine in the long run. The fact Tom McDonald can be covered with ease tells you their list of talls is much better than ours.

 

[toothless]

They may need to throw something else in

Grundy may have a part to play in order to get a deal done...

 

[Little Ziggyadee]

Melbourne got 2 1st rounders and 1 2nd rounder for Jackson.
They should be arrested immediately for theft.
Biggest dud job in AFL history.
3 picks for Jackson and they wonder why they are still shiit.
Did Longmuire think they were getting Michael Jackson??

 

[spook]

I reckon its a very good chance that Melbourne take the 1st pick and take Reid.

They could trade 5 and 15 (depending where they finish) to West Coast for Pick 1 (probably becomes 6 and 16 by the end of it - possibly as low as 19 though). They may need to throw something else in, would they consider throwing Rivers into the equation? Maybe would even mean Melbourne keep their 1st and use their 2nd.

Pick 5, Rivers and 24 (that they also got from Freo), might be an enticing enough offer for the WC to take. They get Curtin, Rivers and possibly could get Mitch Edwards as a future ruck prospect. You'd have to think about it.

Pick 5 won't guarantee Curtin. West Coast won't trade unless they're sure they'll get him.

 

[daniel30]

Dees have exceptional depth, Jefferson still cooking, still a year or two off but 23 goals in the VFL not too shabby. They have Schache who is decent depth and can pinch hit in the ruck, JVR as you mentioned, Petty as a swingman, Gawn probably finishes his days up forward. I reckon they will be fine in the long run. The fact Tom McDonald can be covered with ease tells you their list of talls is much better than ours.

Spot on Bully the problem for me is our footy department didn't draft for needs when it needed to and the kids we're there to replace for example Jack. I get best available , but there is point when needs has to be addressed.

 

[mrposhman]

Pick 5 won't guarantee Curtin. West Coast won't trade unless they're sure they'll get him.

You could be right, I suspect we will see quite a lot of pick trading in this draft, a lot of picks won't end up where they start.

Eg. GC pick will move, I suspect the entire top 5 might even change hands. The Dogs will want to move their picks as risks around Croft bids are too high for particularly their Brisbane pick. I also think the Swans 1st 3 will all change to other picks, they will try and push into the top 10 too, their 2 picks in the mid 20's are perfect picks for Cleary bids, so they will want to move them up or into next years draft.

 

[MD Jazz]

They have Schache who is decent depth and can pinch hit in the ruck,

Agree with everything else but this is just wrong. He is not depth unless you want VFL depth. Incredibly poor drafting by the Bulldogs & Melb to take him after what they saw at Bris.

 

[graystar1]

At the moment, without mentioning any future prospect, it seems our first pick is not until No. 29 according to what I just read on the web.
As usual, all the promising picks will be gone by then.
Yes, I know there have been some gems in late picks, but not ideal.

 

[bullus_hit]

Agree with everything else but this is just wrong. He is not depth unless you want VFL depth. Incredibly poor drafting by the Bulldogs & Melb to take him after what they saw at Bris.

The scarcity of talls ensures he will probably stay in the system another year or two, probably a cut above VFL, good running capacity and can hit the scoreboard averaging 1.1 goals a game. He's not the answer to anything from a Richmond perspective, tracking similar to Shaun McKernen who limped his way to 91 games. Tough gig this key forward business, even finding one can cause headaches. Plenty of clubs like the Doggies in the early 2000s and Freo more recently have spent outrageous amounts of draft capital finding answers. In some ways we are now entering unchartered waters, there's always been one on the list, even during the dark times. I'd even set the bar at something resembling Jeff Hogg, a safe 2 goal forward, doable but the club needs some picks in the 6-15 range.

 

[Leysy Days]

Agree with everything else but this is just wrong. He is not depth unless you want VFL depth. Incredibly poor drafting by the Bulldogs & Melb to take him after what they saw at Bris.

Correct. Schache has never been an AFL standard backup for anyone.