Kraka-Jack in the slammer?

[Six Pack]

Good post Hops! :clap

 

[Chocco]

So, jail plus personal retribution? Guess you woulnt mind spending time in the big house with him? What sort of responsibility are u showing to yr family and friends by pursuing personal revenge?

You are condoning exactly what Krak did, revenge! You can't take the law into your own hands mate. You must be a confused person, because you are saying he got exactly what he deserved and then you would go out and do the exact same thing ??? ??? ???

 

[the claw]

So, jail plus personal retribution? Guess you woulnt mind spending time in the big house with him? What sort of responsibility are u showing to yr family and friends by pursuing personal revenge?

i think i will answer that. i would gladly go to jail to achieve JUSTICE.Make the sentence fit the crime and justice is achieved.the only time i would take it into my own hands is when the legal system fails to give me justice.its when people percieve that no justice is done that you get vigilante type groups. the trouble with society is no one is prepared to take responsibility for their actions and none are prepared to do the time. do the crime do the time.

 

[Six Pack]

What good are u doing anyone by getting locked up for the same thing?

We have to let justice take its course.

Claw, it sounds like you support the traditional Koorie ritual of 'payback.'

 

[Six Pack]

You are condoning exactly what Krak did, revenge! You can't take the law into your own hands mate. You must be a confused person, because you are saying he got exactly what he deserved and then you would go out and do the exact same thing ??? ??? ???

chocco, could you please ensure that yr comments are directed to the person who inspired this post by me; ie. Craig.

thanks

 

[the claw]

I have to be careful about contributing to this sort of debate as it is a very emotive one for me. I work with kids who are disadvantaged purely by their Indigineity every day.

Firstly, let me me say that I, like you guys I'd assume, know only the media output of the Krakouer case. I find it very sad that we all feel compelled to make a judgement based purely on that, due to the often flagrant misrepresentations made in most criminal cases. Take a step back people.

Let me also say that IF Krak committed the crime the way it was reported, then his punishment need only fit within the sentencing requirements - which it obviously did. We need to trust judges to appropriately sentence in that range - as hard as that might be at times. And we don't have any evidence that the judge got it wrong in this case.

The overlay (and distraction in this thread) on this is the disadvantage of Aboriginal people in this country. Some key pieces of evidence (yes, researched and proven) are that:
* Indigenous people die on average 30 years younger than non-indigenous people.
* Sentencing of Indigenous people has been proven to be harsher than non-Indigenous people for violent crimes.
* The option of prison for Indigenous people has been proven to be less effective in reducing repeat offences than for non-Indigenous people.
* Young Indigenous people are 27 times more likely to die from assault with a sharp weapon, and 4 times more likely to die from intentional self harm.
These facts are just a part of the context in which these crimes occur. So it's my contention that we probably spend far too long comparing apples and oranges and far too long avoiding the real interventions that can change the conditions that are currently in place.

But hey, I'm probably just a socialist lefty windbag do-gooder. I prefer that to looking desperately for quick fixes based on blame, prejudice and isolated cases

Just my 5c.

without going into those points there are valid reasons why each thing happens. knowing your sensibilities to this debate i wont go into them except to say you cant help those who wont help themselves. we all have choices in life weather you are rich or poor black or white advantaged or disadvantaged.

 

[the claw]

What good are u doing anyone by getting locked up for the same thing?

We have to let justice take its course.

Claw, it sounds like you support the traditional Koorie ritual of 'payback.'

you miss what im saying i would let the legal system take its course but if i didnt get justice im afraid i would take the law into my own hands.

you have 80yr olds over here getting beaten and robbed a lot never really recover from the trauma and a lot live in fear for the rest of their days what does the courts do to these perpetrators slap them on the wrist and go all teary eyed because they come from a poor upbringing. if this happened to my mum, or dad and the low life got a slap on the wrist im afraid proper retribution will be forthcoming.

 

[Six Pack]

So why are u waiting? Why don't you get in first?

 

[the claw]

So why are u waiting? Why don't you get in first?
[/quot i believe you have to be found guilty first. i dont believe in being judge jury and executioner. just the executioner if i dont recieve justice. the right thing is hopefully the legal system metes out an appropriate sentence .if it doesnt well its all fair in revenge to achieve justice..

the way we are going it wont be long before vigilantes are the norm. and who could blame em when you cant get justice.

 

[hopper]

without going into those points there are valid reasons why each thing happens. knowing your sensibilities to this debate i wont go into them except to say you cant help those who wont help themselves. we all have choices in life weather you are rich or poor black or white advantaged or disadvantaged.

There certainly are reasons, craw. But their validity is another thing altogether. As again is the idea of doing something worthwhile to overcome/fix/reconcile. It's true that you can't help those who won't help themselves - and there are plenty in the Aboriginal community who'd do well given a break in life, despite those who have been lost. There's also some very notable Aboriginal people who've been far more successful than you & I despite their extreme disadvantage. I guess I reckon you can't only make generalisations and call on individual cases that suit your own argument all the time. A good look at the research, facts and big picture is a good idea from time to time and is usually a bunch more productive if genuinely looking for answers and options.

And I certainly support and acknowledge the idea of individual accountability for one's actions. Give it some real thought - you may even discover the difference between justice and revenge.

 

[GoodOne]

You are condoning exactly what Krak did, revenge! You can't take the law into your own hands mate. You must be a confused person, because you are saying he got exactly what he deserved and then you would go out and do the exact same thing ??? ??? ???

Exactly right, one of the more bizarre posts I've seen for a while. Basically what Craig is saying is that he condones what Krakouer did but would do the same thing himself. It's hard to say what anyone would do under duress unless you've experienced it.

 

[Chocco]

chocco, could you please ensure that yr comments are directed to the person who inspired this post by me; ie. Craig.

thanks

Sorry Six Pack, I was just backing up your point against Craig. Because you didn't quote him it didn't come through that way.

 

[Rosy]

Exactly right, one of the more bizarre posts I've seen for a while. Basically what Craig is saying is that he condones what Krakouer did but would do the same thing himself. It's hard to say what anyone would do under duress unless you've experienced it.

Your comment that craigybabes condoned Krak's action is a tad bizarre too Goody. He made it clear to me that he doesn't condone them "Krakouer bashed a person to the point of near death, thus DESERVES to go to jail period."

I'd really like the people flying the aboriginal flag in relation to Krak's case to take the emotion out of it and tell me how his race affected his sentencing. It's well and good to drag up history and research from around the world but how does it actually apply to Krak's situation?

 

[hopper]

Rosy, I'm not sure if you're referring to me with that comment.

I have absolutely no clue as to whether Krak's Aboriginal status affected his sentence. I don't think I've insinuated such. Just highlighted some pertinent parallel stuff. I think the lines between Krak's case and the larger issues have been blurred out of control in this thread.

 

[tigersnake]

Time to lock this thread and turf it Rosy.

Krakouer bashed a person to the point of near death, thus DESERVES to go to jail period.

And of course a white fella woulda got jailed Snakey - it wasnt a simple assault charge it was more serious.

Ded set sick of whinging do gooders and socialist ranting on this site its pathetic especially when they are on threads unrelated, leave it on the politics thread.

If anyone did that to a relative of mine i would want their ass thrown in the slammer also, not to mention what id to the perpetrator if i got my hands on em.

Krakouer got his right whack.

No wonder the society is going down hill when do gooders make excuses for every sh!t bag that commits murder, peddles drugs, bashes and assult people and mugs and assaults innocent and the elderly.

Over it close the thread Rosy.

you should get yourself a radio show in sydney craigeroony, you'd be an overnight sensation.

again, people are reading stuff into my posts I did not write. I'll say it again, people are reading stuff into my posts I didn't write. Go back and read the posts.

What I will say though, that the level of craigs riteous indignation at the mere suggestion that racism might exist in Australia, putting the Krak case aside, says a lot about craig. Your social commentary is even more inept than your footy analysis.

 

[tigersnake]

Thanks for answering. I didn't word my question very well sorry. I was wondering about your comment in relation to Krak's situation.

I don't see any connection between what the mentioned research shows and Krak being treated differently because he's aboriginal.

I'm not sure how Krak rates in terms of being "blacker", or how colour is measured even. I don't know his financial situation but I'd be surprised if he'd be considered as "poorer" when he's been on a relatively high income for several years. Also considering the maximum term for the crime he was found guilty of is 20 years he certainly didn't cop the "harsher" end of the scale there either.

I can't see how anyone could tie Krak's sentence to the colour of his skin and I think it sells the bloke short to do so. He is an Australian citizen who was found guilty of a serious crime and was sentenced accordingly imo.

It wasn't really related to directly to Kraks situation rosey. As I said, the whole situation is sad. Krak did the wrong thing and probably deserved what he got. Its sad though that Krak is repeating the mistakes of his dad and engaging in violence even with his opportunities.

Another related issue that my hypothetical musing related to stands, I wonder what he would have gotten if he was a blueblood? I'm a betting man and I'd put money on getting off, but its just a hypothetical pondering based on the data, and personal experience. Its nothing you can ever prove (the data is undeniable though), so craig can get on his soapbox and foam at the mouth all he wants. It was a fight outside a pub after all.

 

[tigersnake]

Krakouer bashed a person to the point of near death, thus DESERVES to go to jail period.

Its 'deserves to go to jail FULL STOP'. This is Australia not America. Geez I hate American expressions.

This very thing created all sorts of confusion for me the other day at work. This very attractive woman stated on reception, I decided to ask her out. She replied 'I will not go out with you, period'. I said 'thats OK we don't have to have sex on the first date'. She just stormed off!!!

 

[the claw]

Its 'deserves to go to jail FULL STOP'. This is Australia not America. Geez I hate American expressions.

This very thing created all sorts of confusion for me the other day at work. This very attractive woman stated on reception, I decided to ask her out. She replied 'I will not go out with you, period'. I said 'thats OK we don't have to have sex on the first date'. She just stormed off!!!

lmao very funny.

you know where most women belong snakey stacked neatly ten high at the tip. no sense of humour at all. tommorrow you should ask her if shes over her period and if so has she changed her mind you have indeed changed your mind about sex on the first date. might get a slap around the mush but the reaction would be worth it.

 

[GoodOne]

Your comment that craigybabes condoned Krak's action is a tad bizarre too Goody. He made it clear to me that he doesn't condone them "Krakouer bashed a person to the point of near death, thus DESERVES to go to jail period."

You are right rosy, I used the wrong word when I said 'condone', I meant to say 'condemn'.

 

[Rosy]

No worries GO. It makes sense to me now.