One reason they allow study in prison is to keep the inmates managable. By keeping them occupied, they cause less mischief and make life more managable for the guards. Once they get bored, all sorts of chaos usually occurs. Dont care if they hurt the psycho's, but its usually the innocent (guards or guys in on minor charges who want to keep their nose clean and do their time) that get hurt.
-
IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.
Justice?
- Thread starter Legends of 2017
- Start date
Liverpool said:
Talk about illustrating two extremes to paint the picture the journo wants us to see. How many elderly just get a pie as their main source of nutrition for the day? The article quotes $5.70 a day for a prisoner's meals and $5 for nursing home meals. The difference in cost isn't significant considering elderly people tend to eat a lot less. A bowl of nutritious soup would cost far less than a pie.
The situation of nutrition for the elderly should certainly be looked at, along with all aspects of their care, at but that article is a stacked deck.
Tiger74 said:
Keep them manageable in prison by giving them jobs to do that other people hate doing.....like digging roadside trenches in the rain.
What about chaining them altogether and getting them to clean our beaches and parks from litter......clean graffiti of walls......something the public can benefit from, and something they can give back to society for the pain and suffering they have caused innocent people.
That to me would be more beneficial, than wasting money on useless degrees, that a 18 year old out of high school could be doing and get a career from.
More legal farce 
:
(Farcical enough that he got only a 27-year minimum....he should have been locked up and the key flushed down the dunny!)
Legal green light for Hoddle Street killer
August 1, 2007 - 3:43PM
Police and Emergency Services Minister, Bob Cameron has vowed to put a stop to Hoddle Street murderer Julian Knight's efforts to write to his victims.
"We will be doing whatever we can to stop Julian Knight from writing to victims and victims families and giving them more stress," Police and Emergency Services Minister Bob Cameron said.
"Can I just say Corrections Victoria and the Victorian government will do whatever it takes to stop Julian Knight from being in touch with his victims."
"Victoria Police role in these circumstances is to properly investigate incidents where people are killed in the circumstances of which Julian Knight killed people it stands in infamy in Victorian history... but we said at the time Julian Knight was sentenced he's going to the right place where he ought to be and we simply stand by that now," Victoria Police Assistant Commissioner Noel Ashby said.
Knight, 39, has been allowed to continue a legal fight aimed at allowing him to write to victims of his shooting spree and their relatives.
Knight was sentenced to life imprisonment, with a 27-year minimum, after murdering seven people and injuring 19 in 1987.
He will be eligible for parole in 2014.
Justice Kevin Bell today allowed Knight to pursue his case in the Supreme Court.
After being declared a vexatious litigant in 2004, Knight had to ask permission before he could bring legal proceedings.
Justice Bell said Knight wanted court orders forcing prison authorities to develop a sentence plan for him, and give him education access.
Knight also sought orders that would prevent the authorities from stopping letters he wanted to send to victims.
"They have seized one such letter which he contends is one of apology and explanation," Justice Bell said.
He refused the first two applications, saying Knight had been transferred to the mainstream section of Port Phillip Prison, and would have greater access to education and rehabilitation programs.
An annual review of Knight's imprisonment - to determine which programs he should be offered - is due this month.
Justice Bell said it would be a waste of the Supreme Court's scarce time and resources to let the applications proceed.
But he said Knight's argument that prison authorities had no power to stop him sending a letter to an unnamed victim was not "foredoomed to fail".
Knight said the letter, which was to have been sent first to a prison fellowship group, was not harassing or unlawful, and did not threaten prison security.
Prison authorities seized the letter on the basis that they could reasonably believe it offended against the Corrections Act.
Questions about whether the letter went beyond apology and explanation, and legal implications stemming from it, could be debated in court at the main hearing, Justice Bell said.
He said prisoners had liberty to express ideas, but the act allowed a prison governor to inspect, stop and censor their letters.
"Communication between prisoners and victims is a matter of extreme sensitivity," he said.
"This can be considered at the substantive hearing ... the fact that (the hearing) may attract publicity, which some of ... Knight's victims may see, is not a reason to refuse leave."
http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/killers-court-win-sparks-outrage/2007/08/01/1185647942669.html
:(Farcical enough that he got only a 27-year minimum....he should have been locked up and the key flushed down the dunny!)
Legal green light for Hoddle Street killer
August 1, 2007 - 3:43PM
Police and Emergency Services Minister, Bob Cameron has vowed to put a stop to Hoddle Street murderer Julian Knight's efforts to write to his victims.
"We will be doing whatever we can to stop Julian Knight from writing to victims and victims families and giving them more stress," Police and Emergency Services Minister Bob Cameron said.
"Can I just say Corrections Victoria and the Victorian government will do whatever it takes to stop Julian Knight from being in touch with his victims."
"Victoria Police role in these circumstances is to properly investigate incidents where people are killed in the circumstances of which Julian Knight killed people it stands in infamy in Victorian history... but we said at the time Julian Knight was sentenced he's going to the right place where he ought to be and we simply stand by that now," Victoria Police Assistant Commissioner Noel Ashby said.
Knight, 39, has been allowed to continue a legal fight aimed at allowing him to write to victims of his shooting spree and their relatives.
Knight was sentenced to life imprisonment, with a 27-year minimum, after murdering seven people and injuring 19 in 1987.
He will be eligible for parole in 2014.
Justice Kevin Bell today allowed Knight to pursue his case in the Supreme Court.
After being declared a vexatious litigant in 2004, Knight had to ask permission before he could bring legal proceedings.
Justice Bell said Knight wanted court orders forcing prison authorities to develop a sentence plan for him, and give him education access.
Knight also sought orders that would prevent the authorities from stopping letters he wanted to send to victims.
"They have seized one such letter which he contends is one of apology and explanation," Justice Bell said.
He refused the first two applications, saying Knight had been transferred to the mainstream section of Port Phillip Prison, and would have greater access to education and rehabilitation programs.
An annual review of Knight's imprisonment - to determine which programs he should be offered - is due this month.
Justice Bell said it would be a waste of the Supreme Court's scarce time and resources to let the applications proceed.
But he said Knight's argument that prison authorities had no power to stop him sending a letter to an unnamed victim was not "foredoomed to fail".
Knight said the letter, which was to have been sent first to a prison fellowship group, was not harassing or unlawful, and did not threaten prison security.
Prison authorities seized the letter on the basis that they could reasonably believe it offended against the Corrections Act.
Questions about whether the letter went beyond apology and explanation, and legal implications stemming from it, could be debated in court at the main hearing, Justice Bell said.
He said prisoners had liberty to express ideas, but the act allowed a prison governor to inspect, stop and censor their letters.
"Communication between prisoners and victims is a matter of extreme sensitivity," he said.
"This can be considered at the substantive hearing ... the fact that (the hearing) may attract publicity, which some of ... Knight's victims may see, is not a reason to refuse leave."
http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/killers-court-win-sparks-outrage/2007/08/01/1185647942669.html
we`ve had privately run prisons in victoria since the late 90`s.mld said:
port phillip prison is privately run,also fulham prison in sale.
barwon is government run.
no prisoner has access to the internet in prison,it`s been set up by his "supporters" outside .Liverpool said:A cop killer getting access to the internet at all.....what a joke!
Cop killer's web of lies
Matt Cunningham
March 29, 2007 12:00am
DOUBLE police killer Jason Roberts is running a website from his maximum-security jail cell in a heartless insult to the families of his victims.
Roberts, serving a life term over the 1998 murders of Sgt Gary Silk and Sen-Constable Rodney Miller, has established a website protesting his innocence and slamming prison authorities.
The convicted murderer rants that he was wrongly convicted and is the victim of brutal treatment.
It is believed he has dodged a jail internet ban by mailing lengthy diatribes to supporters, who post them on the website where they appear with poems and biographical information, all written in the first person.
"I am condemned if I say nothing, and no doubt I will be condemned for speaking out here," he says. "I will not let the lie of my conviction to be given substance by my silence."
In other postings, he:
DESCRIBES himself as "single and innocent".
NAMES interests including "women and freedom".
DETAILS why he went on a hunger strike.
A Corrections Victoria spokeswoman said no prisoner was allowed internet access.
"This site was set up outside the prison by someone in the community," she said.
"The person running this site should be mindful of the impact to the victims' families and the broader community.
"We call on this person to shut the site down."
Roberts and another were convicted of the 1998 murders of Silk and Miller. In February 2003, Roberts was jailed for life with a 35-year non-parole period.
A jury unanimously agreed that the pair killed Silk and Miller in a shootout in Cochranes Rd, Moorabbin, just after midnight on August 16, 1998.
They were later secretly taped coldly describing the shootings as "a little thing", and taunting police, shouting "bang bang, suck on that" as they drove past other officers.
The tapes also revealed they considered murdering Miller's widow, Carmel, and young son, James, to fool police into believing the murders were drug-related.
But Roberts protests his innocence on the site.
In a poem, he states: "When an innocent man is wrongfully convicted and sentenced to life, it is the equivalent of cutting this throat with a knife."
He complains he is regularly strip-searched and is chained when under escort.
He believes there is a conspiracy to punish him on each anniversary of the killings, or when St Kilda and Hawthorn play for the Silk-Miller Cup in honour of the slain officers.
"Every time I am due for an important court hearing, or every time they play the Silk-Miller cup at the footy, someone 'allegedly' drops a note on me making an anonymous allegation, and you lot come running down in you're (sic) jack boots, your jump suits and your f------ batman belts to arrest me and drag me off to a punishment unit," he says.
He claims allegations he was attempting to escape were fabricated.
His rants include details of what he said was a three-week hunger strike against harsh treatment.
Poem titles include Corruption, An Innocent Man and Cursed.
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,21465176-661,00.html
he writes to them to tell them what to say,he could also tell them on visits etc.
More farce...if you want to kill someone, just hit them while riding a bike, and you'll just cop a fine!
Even more farcical, is the maximum fine is $550, and the lawyer even argued that down to $400!
Disgraceful!
'Pathetic' fine for Hell Ride cyclist
Dan Harrison
August 8, 2007 - 11:01AM
A magistrate has described as "pathetic" the $400 fine he has imposed on a cyclist who failed to obey a red light and crashed into an elderly man, who later died.
William Raisin-Shaw, 31, of St Kilda East, today appeared before magistrate Charlie Rozencwajg charged with failing to stop at the signal on Beach Road, Mentone, in August last year.
Pedestrian James Gould, 77, died after being struck by Raisin-Shaw, during the "Hell Ride", an informal, weekly, high-speed cycling race through Melbourne's Bayside suburbs.
Mr Rozencwajg said the limited penalties available to him, despite "the severe consequences of your riding on this particular day", highlighted the "incongruous state of the law".
"I'm now going to impose what everybody would consider a pathetic fine of $400," he said.
The maximum penalty for the offence was a $550 fine, but Raisin-Shaw's lawyer, Michael Sharpley, asked the magistrate to take into account the difficult group dynamics of the ride in determining the penalty.
At the coronial inquest into Mr Gould's death, he said his client feared stopping at the lights would cause a serious accident with the riders behind him.
Today, the magistrate noted that Raisin-Shaw was only charged with disobeying the traffic signal.
"This charge has nothing to do with anyone being hurt, much less killed," Mr Rozencwajg said.
Raisin-Shaw had no prior convictions.
The magistrate said it was Raisin-Shaw's choice to join the notorious ride. "The problem is joining that type of group... Groups like this, they're not going two by two," Mr Rozencwajg said.
In his finding last month, State Coroner Graeme Johnstone said he did not find Raisin-Shaw individually responsible for Mr Gould's death.
However, he said large groups of cyclist travelling at high speeds and disobeying road rules was a recipe for disaster.
Raisin-Shaw did not comment as he left the court. He did not contest the charge.
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2007/08/08/1186530408206.html
Even more farcical, is the maximum fine is $550, and the lawyer even argued that down to $400!
Disgraceful!
'Pathetic' fine for Hell Ride cyclist
Dan Harrison
August 8, 2007 - 11:01AM
A magistrate has described as "pathetic" the $400 fine he has imposed on a cyclist who failed to obey a red light and crashed into an elderly man, who later died.
William Raisin-Shaw, 31, of St Kilda East, today appeared before magistrate Charlie Rozencwajg charged with failing to stop at the signal on Beach Road, Mentone, in August last year.
Pedestrian James Gould, 77, died after being struck by Raisin-Shaw, during the "Hell Ride", an informal, weekly, high-speed cycling race through Melbourne's Bayside suburbs.
Mr Rozencwajg said the limited penalties available to him, despite "the severe consequences of your riding on this particular day", highlighted the "incongruous state of the law".
"I'm now going to impose what everybody would consider a pathetic fine of $400," he said.
The maximum penalty for the offence was a $550 fine, but Raisin-Shaw's lawyer, Michael Sharpley, asked the magistrate to take into account the difficult group dynamics of the ride in determining the penalty.
At the coronial inquest into Mr Gould's death, he said his client feared stopping at the lights would cause a serious accident with the riders behind him.
Today, the magistrate noted that Raisin-Shaw was only charged with disobeying the traffic signal.
"This charge has nothing to do with anyone being hurt, much less killed," Mr Rozencwajg said.
Raisin-Shaw had no prior convictions.
The magistrate said it was Raisin-Shaw's choice to join the notorious ride. "The problem is joining that type of group... Groups like this, they're not going two by two," Mr Rozencwajg said.
In his finding last month, State Coroner Graeme Johnstone said he did not find Raisin-Shaw individually responsible for Mr Gould's death.
However, he said large groups of cyclist travelling at high speeds and disobeying road rules was a recipe for disaster.
Raisin-Shaw did not comment as he left the court. He did not contest the charge.
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2007/08/08/1186530408206.html
Agreed, Tiger74. Generally, I just think that those cyclists who ignore the road rules that hinder them but cite those that protect them give us a bad name.
Tiger74 said:
There is a big difference in riding to work and what these guys do T and i would say me being "Involved" so to speak with these riders than you guys riding to work T. A big difference mate. Those wankers take over the whole road when they ride, dont give a rats about anyone. To see the same happen along St Kilda Road or anywhere other than that area with bike riders - id only wonder what would happen. It is a happy medium in those other areas - what should be.
As for the fine - if it was someone in my family.....well, lets just say what comes around goes around. Just Karma thats all. Nothing more but id be mighty pissed off. Dont clump you or others who are doing the right thing with those who are riding their tour de france along the nepean who think they are the be all and end all. Probably shouldnt generalise but my parent used to live down that way up till a year and a half ago and the number of times of been down there and saw their pathetic behaviour to other road users is just unbelievable.
More farce....it never ends, does it?
Be careful if you go down to Geelong and are shopping....
He's raped, tortured ... now he's out shopping
September 02, 2007 12:00am
A DEPRAVED monster branded "Victoria's most dangerous man" has been allowed to leave jail on a shopping trip and is being prepared for early release.
Authorities are preparing to release him three years early, though he has amassed a shocking record of violence in jail.
Loguancio, 34, was jailed in December 1998 for 12 years for the long-running torture and sickening sexual assault of a woman.
His crimes include rapes so horrific that the Sunday Herald Sun has decided not to publish the full details.
And while in jail, he has committed about 40 vicious assaults on other inmates and guards, prison sources said.
"He is the most dangerous man in Victoria -- if he gets out he will kill," another jail source said.
Though Loguancio's sentence does not end until December, 2010, and he has continued his extreme violence in jail, the Adult Parole Board confirmed it has set a tentative release date of December this year.
And, in a move that has outraged victims of crime, Corrections Victoria recently granted Loguancio a "rehabilitation and transition permit".
The permit allowed him to go on a four-hour shopping trip in Geelong, accompanied by two guards.
Sentencing Judge Mervyn Kimm branded Loguancio's crimes "violent, appalling, and . . . disgusting and depraved".
During 2 1/2 years of violence and sickening sexual assaults on a woman, he beat her with a length of wood, kicked and punched her while she was lying on the ground and slashed her with a carving knife.
On one occasion, with the woman on her knees, he held her by the hair and pointed a pump-action shotgun at her head, telling her she was "dead".
Another time he choked the woman with a belt until her face turned blue.
On yet another occasion the victim took refuge from a rampaging Loguancio in a toilet, but he used a powerful crossbow to fire 34 arrows into the toilet door before dragging her out and stabbing an arrow into her leg.
The tortures ended with his arrest in 1997, after a man in a suburban Melbourne park saw Loguancio chasing his frightened victim.
Loguancio saw the man watching and attacked him with a shovel and then an axe.
Later, after Loguancio was jailed, his female victim, whose body was covered in welts, revealed the horrific torture.
During the court proceedings her parents' home was firebombed in an attack detectives believe Loguancio -- who as an 18-year-old torched his school after he was expelled -- ordered from jail.
Det-Sgt Trevor Mucchi, who led the investigation into Loguancio, said yesterday: "Antonio Christopher Loguancio, in my 23 years of policing, stands out as the most unpredictable, violent and vengeful individual I have ever been involved with. His whole reason for existing is to dominate and get even with people.
"I have no doubt that he is capable of killing. His release will have a huge impact on the lives of a number of people."
Loguancio became eligible for parole in July. Adult Parole Board general manager David Provan said a tentative December release date was set last month.
But the prisoner would need to successfully complete a jail violence intervention program and be passed by the board when he again fronts it in November, Mr Provan said.
A Corrections Victoria spokesperson defended the program that allowed Loguancio to go shopping.
"Community safety is paramount and prisoners remain closely supervised by prison staff at all times," the spokesman said.
People Against Lenient Sentencing president Steve Medcraft said Loguancio should be made to serve the full term of his sentence plus more time for his prison violence.
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22347640-661,00.html
Be careful if you go down to Geelong and are shopping....
He's raped, tortured ... now he's out shopping
September 02, 2007 12:00am
A DEPRAVED monster branded "Victoria's most dangerous man" has been allowed to leave jail on a shopping trip and is being prepared for early release.
Authorities are preparing to release him three years early, though he has amassed a shocking record of violence in jail.
Loguancio, 34, was jailed in December 1998 for 12 years for the long-running torture and sickening sexual assault of a woman.
His crimes include rapes so horrific that the Sunday Herald Sun has decided not to publish the full details.
And while in jail, he has committed about 40 vicious assaults on other inmates and guards, prison sources said.
"He is the most dangerous man in Victoria -- if he gets out he will kill," another jail source said.
Though Loguancio's sentence does not end until December, 2010, and he has continued his extreme violence in jail, the Adult Parole Board confirmed it has set a tentative release date of December this year.
And, in a move that has outraged victims of crime, Corrections Victoria recently granted Loguancio a "rehabilitation and transition permit".
The permit allowed him to go on a four-hour shopping trip in Geelong, accompanied by two guards.
Sentencing Judge Mervyn Kimm branded Loguancio's crimes "violent, appalling, and . . . disgusting and depraved".
During 2 1/2 years of violence and sickening sexual assaults on a woman, he beat her with a length of wood, kicked and punched her while she was lying on the ground and slashed her with a carving knife.
On one occasion, with the woman on her knees, he held her by the hair and pointed a pump-action shotgun at her head, telling her she was "dead".
Another time he choked the woman with a belt until her face turned blue.
On yet another occasion the victim took refuge from a rampaging Loguancio in a toilet, but he used a powerful crossbow to fire 34 arrows into the toilet door before dragging her out and stabbing an arrow into her leg.
The tortures ended with his arrest in 1997, after a man in a suburban Melbourne park saw Loguancio chasing his frightened victim.
Loguancio saw the man watching and attacked him with a shovel and then an axe.
Later, after Loguancio was jailed, his female victim, whose body was covered in welts, revealed the horrific torture.
During the court proceedings her parents' home was firebombed in an attack detectives believe Loguancio -- who as an 18-year-old torched his school after he was expelled -- ordered from jail.
Det-Sgt Trevor Mucchi, who led the investigation into Loguancio, said yesterday: "Antonio Christopher Loguancio, in my 23 years of policing, stands out as the most unpredictable, violent and vengeful individual I have ever been involved with. His whole reason for existing is to dominate and get even with people.
"I have no doubt that he is capable of killing. His release will have a huge impact on the lives of a number of people."
Loguancio became eligible for parole in July. Adult Parole Board general manager David Provan said a tentative December release date was set last month.
But the prisoner would need to successfully complete a jail violence intervention program and be passed by the board when he again fronts it in November, Mr Provan said.
A Corrections Victoria spokesperson defended the program that allowed Loguancio to go shopping.
"Community safety is paramount and prisoners remain closely supervised by prison staff at all times," the spokesman said.
People Against Lenient Sentencing president Steve Medcraft said Loguancio should be made to serve the full term of his sentence plus more time for his prison violence.
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22347640-661,00.html
At last, "The Echo" has decided to share his own opinion instead of just saying 'I agree' with every policy/idea the Coalition come up with.
However, he is playing with fire on this one.
Potentially, he could lose votes for more or less being seen to stick up for the Bali bombers.....but more importantly, what will our Asian neighbours think of us if Rudd becomes our new PM and wants to try and dictate what type of laws and punishments should be handed out in their countries?
I think he has got a bloody cheek!
While people here may see these laws as barbaric or cold-hearted, or just plain wrong....the simple fact is, if people here continue to travel to Asian countries, perform illegal acts, and know what will most likely happen to them once caught....that isn't the law of that nation's fault, but the stupidity of the person committing the crime.
Look at the Bali-9....they may be Australians, and I am a strong advocate of Australia, as you all well know....but even I find it very difficult to have sympathy for a group that decided to strap heroin to their body, knowing that if caught they would be in serious trouble, especially after the Schapelle Corby case only months previous.
They knew what they were doing and they knew what the ramifications would be....and they need to take responsibility for their own actions.
As for the Bali bombers...smiling and joking their way around like rock-stars...well, for Rudd to announce that he sees their execution as wrong, only days out from the 5 year anniversary of the death of 202 people, including 88 Australians....then I think that is pretty poor form.
(And what a soft, left-wing, political correctness line in the article: "It's well and truly time to regain our nation's reputation as a good international citizen and that is precisely what you will get from Kevin Rudd and Labor," :yellowno : 
)
Save Bali bombers: Labor
October 09, 2007
LABOR yesterday attacked John Howard for supporting the death penalty for the Bali bombers as it launched a campaign to stop all executions in Asia.
Four days before the fifth anniversary of the first Bali bombing, which killed 202 people including 88 Australians, Labor pledged its leadership would speak out "consistently" against the death penalty, whether for terrorists or Australian drug smugglers.
Labor has thrown the death penalty in Asia into the election campaign. Its push also comes as the Bali bombers and the Australian "Bali nine" heroin smugglers go through the final stages of their appeals on death sentences.
Labor foreign affairs spokesman Robert McClelland last night pledged a Labor government would start a regional campaign against state executions in countries such as China, Japan, Indonesia, Malaysia, Vietnam and Singapore.
Mr McClelland said Labor believed capital punishment justified "fanatical lunatics" to take lives as part of their "warped ideologies". It would object to capital punishment in Asia with "shrewd diplomatic activism".
Capital punishment in Asia, particularly involving Australian nationals on drug charges in Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia and Vietnam, has caused major diplomatic rifts and been a point of hot political debate in Australia.
In a prepared speech released last night, Mr McClelland criticised the Prime Minister for supporting "the executions of the perpetrators of the Bali bombings, Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein", while continuing to state that "Australia opposed capital punishment".
Mr McClelland said Labor would be consistent in its public comments on capital punishment.
He said Mr Howard's contradictory attitude to the death penalty was highlighted when Bali bomber Amrozi bin Nurhasyim was condemned to death in 2005, about the time young Australian Nguyen Tuong Van was executed in Singapore for drug offences.
Mr Howard did not criticise the death penalty for the Bali bombers but the Australian Government unsuccessfully campaigned to stop the execution of Nguyen.
If elected, a Rudd Labor government would form a regional coalition with the Asian nations that have abolished the death penalty - Cambodia, Nepal, Bhutan, East Timor and The
Philippines.
The coalition would seek to pressure the 14 Asian countries with the death penalty to cut the number of crimes attracting capital punishment, abolishing mandatory death sentences and releasing figures on the number of executions.
Mr McClelland said 80 per cent of the world's known executions were in Asia. According to Amnesty International, worldwide there were at least 1591 executions in 25 countries last year.
Amnesty estimates China executed 1010 people last year, "although the true figures were believed to be much higher". The US executed 53 people.
"Labor believes that supporting executions - even by a nation state - gives justification to all kinds of fanatical lunatics to take the lives of others in pursuit of their warped ideologies," he said in a speech to the Wentworth Human Rights Forum in Sydney last night. "That is why, at the highest levels Australia's public comments about the death penalty must be consistent with policy. This is especially the case if we are going to tactfully and successfully drive a regional abolitionist movement."
Mr McClelland said executions in Asia were an enormous concern for Australia and "place our nationals at risk of being executed in neighbouring countries".
"It also reflects badly on our capacity to improve human rights in our region and advance the cause of universal abolition," he said.
Mr McClelland said Australia's international reputation had suffered a decade of decline "in no small part due to the Howard Government's unsophisticated and politically convenient approach to applying human rights standards".
"It's well and truly time to regain our nation's reputation as a good international citizen and that is precisely what you will get from Kevin Rudd and Labor," he said.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22554363-601,00.html?from=mostpop
However, he is playing with fire on this one.
Potentially, he could lose votes for more or less being seen to stick up for the Bali bombers.....but more importantly, what will our Asian neighbours think of us if Rudd becomes our new PM and wants to try and dictate what type of laws and punishments should be handed out in their countries?
I think he has got a bloody cheek!
While people here may see these laws as barbaric or cold-hearted, or just plain wrong....the simple fact is, if people here continue to travel to Asian countries, perform illegal acts, and know what will most likely happen to them once caught....that isn't the law of that nation's fault, but the stupidity of the person committing the crime.
Look at the Bali-9....they may be Australians, and I am a strong advocate of Australia, as you all well know....but even I find it very difficult to have sympathy for a group that decided to strap heroin to their body, knowing that if caught they would be in serious trouble, especially after the Schapelle Corby case only months previous.
They knew what they were doing and they knew what the ramifications would be....and they need to take responsibility for their own actions.
As for the Bali bombers...smiling and joking their way around like rock-stars...well, for Rudd to announce that he sees their execution as wrong, only days out from the 5 year anniversary of the death of 202 people, including 88 Australians....then I think that is pretty poor form.
(And what a soft, left-wing, political correctness line in the article: "It's well and truly time to regain our nation's reputation as a good international citizen and that is precisely what you will get from Kevin Rudd and Labor," :yellowno :
)Save Bali bombers: Labor
October 09, 2007
LABOR yesterday attacked John Howard for supporting the death penalty for the Bali bombers as it launched a campaign to stop all executions in Asia.
Four days before the fifth anniversary of the first Bali bombing, which killed 202 people including 88 Australians, Labor pledged its leadership would speak out "consistently" against the death penalty, whether for terrorists or Australian drug smugglers.
Labor has thrown the death penalty in Asia into the election campaign. Its push also comes as the Bali bombers and the Australian "Bali nine" heroin smugglers go through the final stages of their appeals on death sentences.
Labor foreign affairs spokesman Robert McClelland last night pledged a Labor government would start a regional campaign against state executions in countries such as China, Japan, Indonesia, Malaysia, Vietnam and Singapore.
Mr McClelland said Labor believed capital punishment justified "fanatical lunatics" to take lives as part of their "warped ideologies". It would object to capital punishment in Asia with "shrewd diplomatic activism".
Capital punishment in Asia, particularly involving Australian nationals on drug charges in Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia and Vietnam, has caused major diplomatic rifts and been a point of hot political debate in Australia.
In a prepared speech released last night, Mr McClelland criticised the Prime Minister for supporting "the executions of the perpetrators of the Bali bombings, Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein", while continuing to state that "Australia opposed capital punishment".
Mr McClelland said Labor would be consistent in its public comments on capital punishment.
He said Mr Howard's contradictory attitude to the death penalty was highlighted when Bali bomber Amrozi bin Nurhasyim was condemned to death in 2005, about the time young Australian Nguyen Tuong Van was executed in Singapore for drug offences.
Mr Howard did not criticise the death penalty for the Bali bombers but the Australian Government unsuccessfully campaigned to stop the execution of Nguyen.
If elected, a Rudd Labor government would form a regional coalition with the Asian nations that have abolished the death penalty - Cambodia, Nepal, Bhutan, East Timor and The
Philippines.
The coalition would seek to pressure the 14 Asian countries with the death penalty to cut the number of crimes attracting capital punishment, abolishing mandatory death sentences and releasing figures on the number of executions.
Mr McClelland said 80 per cent of the world's known executions were in Asia. According to Amnesty International, worldwide there were at least 1591 executions in 25 countries last year.
Amnesty estimates China executed 1010 people last year, "although the true figures were believed to be much higher". The US executed 53 people.
"Labor believes that supporting executions - even by a nation state - gives justification to all kinds of fanatical lunatics to take the lives of others in pursuit of their warped ideologies," he said in a speech to the Wentworth Human Rights Forum in Sydney last night. "That is why, at the highest levels Australia's public comments about the death penalty must be consistent with policy. This is especially the case if we are going to tactfully and successfully drive a regional abolitionist movement."
Mr McClelland said executions in Asia were an enormous concern for Australia and "place our nationals at risk of being executed in neighbouring countries".
"It also reflects badly on our capacity to improve human rights in our region and advance the cause of universal abolition," he said.
Mr McClelland said Australia's international reputation had suffered a decade of decline "in no small part due to the Howard Government's unsophisticated and politically convenient approach to applying human rights standards".
"It's well and truly time to regain our nation's reputation as a good international citizen and that is precisely what you will get from Kevin Rudd and Labor," he said.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22554363-601,00.html?from=mostpop
antman said:
What did I get wrong?
Mr McClelland did say those comments as reported, and as a spokesman for Rudd, is therefore speaking on his behalf.
What I smell from your link you posted Antman, is a big backflip from Rudd, knowing that an issue like this would jeopardise his chance at winning the election.
He must keep following Howard on all issues, until he wins the election...hence his nickname "The Echo"...the question is, will he change his echoing once he gets voted in?
It was also quite funny to see "The Age" having no article quoting McClelland's opinion and that of the ALP on capital punishment in Asia......yet "The Age" were very quick to put this one up on their site showing Rudd backflipping better than Flipper at Seaworld.
