Ivan Maric

[tigermike]

If it's for 'leadership ' it should have been a Coburg gig rather than one on the senior list.
That said I wish him lots of luck.

Typo ToO? Been a couple of years since our VFL was aligned with Coburg.
Keeping him on the main list is most efficient way of having him available for the 1's whenever needed. Sometimes good to keep players who add spirit and 'glue the club together' rather than toss them aside like we did to Brian 'whale' Roberts in 1975 as part of the Pitura trade debacle. KB said of the whale..."He had a sense of humour that created a great environment". We suffered for years after that poor decision.

 

[Tigers of Old]

Typo ToO? Been a couple of years since our VFL was aligned with Coburg.
Keeping him on the main list is most efficient way of having him available for the 1's whenever needed. Sometimes good to keep players who add spirit and 'glue the club together' rather than toss them aside like we did to Brian 'whale' Roberts in 1975 as part of the Pitura trade debacle. KB said of the whale..."He had a sense of humour that created a great environment". We suffered for years after that poor decision.

Yep a typo sorry.
BTW we finished 13th on the back of Ivan's 'spirit' last season.

 

[CarnTheTiges]

Yep a typo sorry.
BTW we finished 13th on the back of Ivan's 'spirit' last season.

And he played what? 2 games. Ivan's turned into being more like Bob Heard than Whale Roberts.

 

[tigermike]

Yep a typo sorry.
BTW we finished 13th on the back of Ivan's 'spirit' last season.

It's just one aspect. I agree the team showed a lack of spirit in many games especially towards the end of the season. Many other factors determined our ladder finish that were outside of Ivan's control.

And he played what? 2 games. Ivan's turned into being more like Bob Heard than Whale Roberts.

Hampson's improvement kept him out and he might have been injured for a while, not sure. I think he is also valuable as a tap ruck coach now that Lade's gone and provides support for his cousin Soldo. We have no one else to work with Hampson, Griffiths, Soldo, possibly Chol. Looking forward to seeing if Soldo (204cm) can continue his good late form he showed in the VFL last year. Chol has a lot of work to do but he's only a fill-in ruck.

 

[tigerlove]

Yep a typo sorry.
BTW we finished 13th on the back of Ivan's 'spirit' last season.

Not sure how you can put any blame on Maric for our finish last year. I agree Maric is finished and should no longer be on the list but I also feel the same way about Hampson. Once the ruck contest is done he's a statue. We have one less midfielder against other teams. Our ruck stocks are deplorable really.

 

[Tigers of Old]

Not sure how you can put any blame on Maric for our finish last year.

Ivan was our joint VC & in the leadership group last year and managed 2 senior games. His demise as a player was a big part of our poor season.

 

[Rancey18]

Hampson's improvement kept him out and he might have been injured for a while, not sure. I think he is also valuable as a tap ruck coach now that Lade's gone and provides support for his cousin Soldo. We have no one else to work with Hampson, Griffiths, Soldo, possibly Chol. Looking forward to seeing if Soldo (204cm) can continue his good late form he showed in the VFL last year. Chol has a lot of work to do but he's only a fill-in ruck.

Hampson keeping him out of the side is proof enough that he is finished. If we wanted him as a coach then they should have signed him up as a coach, or at the very least demoted him to the rookie list.

 

[craig]

Poor Ivan we cooked him for 2 years and crippled him.

 

[leon]

Our midfield got smashed with Hampson as number one ruck.

Maric in 2015 got 177 contested possessions, and 75 clearances. Ivan played 2 more games.
Hampson in 2016 got 99 contested possessions and 36 clearances.
Hampson got 32 hit outs a game to Ivan's 25.

Ivans stats are what made us a lot better side.

Very late reply, haven't visited this thread for a while. Firstly I am a great fan of Eevan's and he is a more competitive beast than Hampson at the stoppages. But this season was 2016, not '15. If you are arguing that "A half crippled Maric is better than Hampson," then it begs the simple question. Why didn't it happen? Why? Because it's utter tosh. When he did play, the description of having the pace and agility of a glacier, sadly, is apt.

Did you look at what happened against Gawn? I assume you did or knew, so annoyed I have had to go look up the stats for you:
- Gawn BOG, 12Ks 6HBs = 18 Ds. 7 Ms, 47 HOs, 2Gs, 142 AF
- Maric 6 + 7 = 13 Ds. 3Ms, 26 HOs, 73 AF

Sure he competed bravely and put up a fight and Gawn is close to the best in the comp now. But he was dominated, out of his class now by a huge margin. I don't argue Hampson is better than the younger Maric, just the best we have currently i.e in 2016. His strength is obviously in the HOs which can be very handy with a strong midfield, although not evident at RFC this season though - hence all the off-season focus on the midfield. Hammer also improved his work in marks, goals, assists a little too, on the back of ankle ops and no P/S.

Nank is more of a Maric-style ruckman, so we'll see how they go in '17. But don't mind keeping Ivan as ruck coach/mentor/back-up ruck, if he can make some recovery with that warrior's body. [But doubt it]

 

[tigerlove]

Ivan was our joint VC & in the leadership group last year and managed 2 senior games. His demise as a player was a big part of our poor season.

Big part is a bit rich. Vickery hardly rucked in 2016 so there was not enough ruck backup either. Martin kicked 9 goals when he's been getting mid 20s previously. Blooding a lot more younger players this year. Deledio being ineffectual for most of the year. There were many other factors which were bigger parts than Maric. Maric was already struggling in 2015, just look at his stats for the back half of the season. The guy is 31yo now, it was to be expected.

 

[tigerlove]

Did you look at what happened against Gawn? I assume you did or knew, so annoyed I have had to go look up the stats for you:
- Gawn BOG, 12Ks 6HBs = 18 Ds. 7 Ms, 47 HOs, 2Gs, 142 AF
- Maric 6 + 7 = 13 Ds. 3Ms, 26 HOs, 73 AF

In fairness, those Gawn stats weren't far off his average for the whole season. Best ruckman this year by a mile. Hampson, other than tapouts, would have been annihilated by Gawn as well.

 

[Bullarto Tiger]

To me, it would have made sense for RFC to de-list Maric at the end of the season and then re-engage/re-employ him as a VFL player and part-time coach for 2017, rather than taking a place in the senior list.

 

[leon]

To me, it would have made sense for RFC to de-list Maric at the end of the season and then re-engage/re-employ him as a VFL player and part-time coach for 2017, rather than taking a place in the senior list.

All seems to make sense, yes. But the horns of the dilemma were that apparently the Pies were willing to offer Maric just what we had to in order to keep him. This must have forced our hand; unless you argue we should have let him go there.

Not the greatest decision; nor the worst. Don't under-value the importance of a ruck coach with Lade gone. The pies did something very similar with Hudson in past years and he was actually needed to play a few games due to injuries.

If Nankervis and even Soldo come on as hoped for, and with luck with injuries, may not hurt us too much.

 

[leon]

In fairness, those Gawn stats weren't far off his average for the whole season. Best ruckman this year by a mile. Hampson, other than tapouts, would have been annihilated by Gawn as well.

No-one knows because it's a hypothetical. Probably, but Hampson may have done better than you think. He did better against other top ruckman than many expected. But Gawn is a beast now - plus 208 cm.

 

[tigerlove]

No-one knows because it's a hypothetical. Probably, but Hampson may have done better than you think. He did better against other top ruckman than many expected. But Gawn is a beast now - plus 208 cm.

lol, by the time Hampson looked left or right Gawn would have been....errr.....gone! Against mobile ruckmen Hampson is no good. Opposition has an extra midfielder.

 

[leon]

lol, by the time Hampson looked left or right Gawn would have been....errr.....gone! Against mobile ruckmen Hampson is no good. Opposition has an extra midfielder.

Such boringly repetitive posts keep missing the point. Like hitting a brick wall. All you've done is insert your view of a hypothetical and claim it's gospel. Look up the definition of 'hypothetical'.
Hampson beat the likes of Crows' Jacobs, who is regarded as a top 4 ruck, et al.

So who is more mobile? Eevan or Hammer? So why did Hammer become No. 1 ruck? So who else should have in 2016? TV, the Bean, Griff? LOL

Gawn is close to best ruck in the comp now. Never would claim that Hampson would beat him, not even hypothetically, only that he may have curbed his domination better than Maric. Going on 2016 form, H is definitely far more mobile than M and still has a strong leap - that's fact, based on obvious evidence.

 

[tigerlove]

Such boringly repetitive posts keep missing the point. Like hitting a brick wall. All you've done is insert your view of a hypothetical and claim it's gospel. Look up the definition of 'hypothetical'.
Hampson beat the likes of Crows' Jacobs, who is regarded as a top 4 ruck, et al.

So who is more mobile? Eevan or Hammer? So why did Hammer become No. 1 ruck? So who else should have in 2016? TV, the Bean, Griff? LOL

Sorry what's with the derogatory comments? Boringly repetitive posts? I haven't posted much on this. You make Hampson sound like some sort of champion. I base my view on historical evidence. Surely you are not arguing that Hampson is effective around the ground? That he is better than Ivan was at his peak? Hammer became number 1 ruck for one reason, we haven't had a quality ruckman since Ivan has aged and body has failed.

As for Jacobs 1 game but let's get this in perspective. Jacobs had a slow start to the season, yet he had more disposals (17) in that game than 16 other games he played during the year. To contrast that Hampson had more disposals than in all but 1 game. That was 11 disposals, yes you heard right, 11 was his 2nd highest tally for the season. There's no arguments about his tap rucking ability, but how many quality ruckman these days just tap out and do little else? So yes Hampson is our #1 ruck, the fact he is to me is proof that we have a serious ruck issue. There is no way Hampson is an AFL quality ruckman in the mould that is required in today's game.

 

[Brettstigers]

Getting back to Maric and off iron hands for a second. Anyone know how his long term injuries are holding up?

 

[leon]

Sorry what's with the derogatory comments? Boringly repetitive posts? I haven't posted much on this. You make Hampson sound like some sort of champion. I base my view on historical evidence. Surely you are not arguing that Hampson is effective around the ground? That he is better than Ivan was at his peak? Hammer became number 1 ruck for one reason, we haven't had a quality ruckman since Ivan has aged and body has failed.

As for Jacobs 1 game but let's get this in perspective. Jacobs had a slow start to the season, yet he had more disposals (17) in that game than 16 other games he played during the year. To contrast that Hampson had more disposals than in all but 1 game. That was 11 disposals, yes you heard right, 11 was his 2nd highest tally for the season. There's no arguments about his tap rucking ability, but how many quality ruckman these days just tap out and do little else? So yes Hampson is our #1 ruck, the fact he is to me is proof that we have a serious ruck issue. There is no way Hampson is an AFL quality ruckman in the mould that is required in today's game.

Comments not so much directed at you but, honestly, I have had this discussion with about 20 others posters on PRE, it's like Groundhog Day. Not interested in re-hashing it any more. You must have missed it all; like on Hammer's thread.
I never have claimed that, or made out that H is any sort of champion whatsoever, so cut the 'derogatory' hyperbole yourself. Same with your next two sentences exactly.
The view I responded to of yours was total supposition because H did not play against Gawn, so cannot be on 'hist. evidence.' My only claim is that he was our best option in 2016 and performed far better than most of his knockers care to admit, like you. You virtually concede this but try to walk around it with further irrelevant, retrospective claims about Maric pre-2016.
I cited the Jacobs match-up as merely one example which disproves your claims in the post referred to. Did you notice the 'et al'? Not going to troll through match stats this year for other examples because I have done it several times before, plus these records may be taken down AFL site now, not sure. Look at the Hampson thread.
As for 'There is no way Hampson is an AFL quality ruckman in the mould that is required in today's game,' given he just played 20 AFL games for the 2016 season, you are again factually wrong.

There is a wide distinction between facts and opinions. So either we see how H would really perform against Gawn in '17, or Nankervis, a ruck much in the Maric mould. Will be interesting to see how they each go if it happens.

 

[Bullarto Tiger]

Getting back to Maric and off iron hands for a second. Anyone know how his long term injuries are holding up?

He's had a haircut ... probably not relevant, really.