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It's time - Jack into the middle
- Thread starter Carter
- Start date
Carter said:
In what way are his arguments stronger? He suggested a use for Jack and I disagreed. Both arguments are equally strong, or equally weak. If his was based on statistical analysis of Jack's centre square output versus our main group's output, then I'd agree with you.
I think your just trying to be deliberately inflammatory. But that's nothing new.
Midsy said:
Your first point is fair. On your second do we really want to wait until a team kicks four in a row before we change up? I wouldn't have thought so.
Anyway I was just offering a way for Jack to have a crack at a few clearances while still playing as our main forward target.
tbartiger said:
I think we were shown last year to be one of the best sides at stopping opposition teams from kicking more than 3 in a row (think it may have been David King on 360 at some point), so he wouldn't go in there all that often for that reason anyway, if that's correct.
I think the whole 'Jack in the middle' concept should be based around unpredictability, which in a way will reflect on the coaches and on-field leaders' ability to make the call at the right times.
IMO, in this case, less is more.
Indeed. We were an excellent defensive team last year, but I still think we had periods where teams got on runs against us where an early change in the middle might have changed things before the rot set in.
For me, its not necessarily just Jack that can do this. Someone like Lloydy with his clean hands could be another option. Batchelor as a big body perhaps, and he doesn't mind the hard stuff. Any of these guys and others, take your pick, can change the angles and keep the opposition coach guessing.
For me, its not necessarily just Jack that can do this. Someone like Lloydy with his clean hands could be another option. Batchelor as a big body perhaps, and he doesn't mind the hard stuff. Any of these guys and others, take your pick, can change the angles and keep the opposition coach guessing.
top five contested possession winners (AVG) 2013-2015:
2013
Cotchin 11.8
Tuck 9.5
Jackson 9.5
Edwards 9.3
Sam Lonergan 8
2014
Cotchin 11.5
Miles 11.2
Thomas 9.3
Deledio 9.3
Jackson 9.2
2015
Cotchin 12.3
Miles 11.6
Edwards 9.9
Martin 8.9
Deledio 8.5
2015 Hawthorn
Will Langford 11.7
Sam Micthell 11.1
Jordan Lewis 9.5
Jarryd Roughead 9.4
Luke Hodge 8.2
Far too much on the captain's shoulders. Also shows the lack of size in 2015.
Jarryd Roughead shows how its done. Hawthorn, like us, is not noted as a super contested team. Take note Dimma!
Incidentally, how good is Deledio. Inside and outside. Gun.
Ditto Edwards.
2013
Cotchin 11.8
Tuck 9.5
Jackson 9.5
Edwards 9.3
Sam Lonergan 8
2014
Cotchin 11.5
Miles 11.2
Thomas 9.3
Deledio 9.3
Jackson 9.2
2015
Cotchin 12.3
Miles 11.6
Edwards 9.9
Martin 8.9
Deledio 8.5
2015 Hawthorn
Will Langford 11.7
Sam Micthell 11.1
Jordan Lewis 9.5
Jarryd Roughead 9.4
Luke Hodge 8.2
Far too much on the captain's shoulders. Also shows the lack of size in 2015.
Jarryd Roughead shows how its done. Hawthorn, like us, is not noted as a super contested team. Take note Dimma!
Incidentally, how good is Deledio. Inside and outside. Gun.
Ditto Edwards.
Roughie still kicked 50 goals last year, just 4 less than Jack.
How the inventive Clarkson uses him is the template to follow. Jack can do everything Roughie can and then some.
Where would Jack be utilised if coaches were swapped everyone?
How the inventive Clarkson uses him is the template to follow. Jack can do everything Roughie can and then some.
Where would Jack be utilised if coaches were swapped everyone?
Just to be devil's advocate - did Roughie hurt his knee as a midfielder or as a forward?? Unless we have other players who can kick goals , I'd keep Jack as a forward. There are many players who may kick goals eg Griffiths but don't. Mc Bean almost did some very good things in his brief appearances (I hope he does become a very good footballer) At the moment we have Jack, Ty, Deledio and Lloyd (kick the crucial one that arguably got us over the line v Hawks)
Was just going to say that. Putting Jack in the middle puts him at more risk of being injured and being sniped in the packs.
Is it worth risking our best forward in this way? We are not a high scoring team in any case, we need Jack kicking and creating goals. I can see the attraction and possible benefits, but its not worth it.
In any event, I think all this discussion is moot. Jack won't play significant time in the guts this year - we trippled down on grunt to assist our classy mids win more ball - that's Dimma's next move.. Whether this is because Dimma's an old stubborn sod or knows about more than us about maximising the return from his football depends on which camp you are in.
Is it worth risking our best forward in this way? We are not a high scoring team in any case, we need Jack kicking and creating goals. I can see the attraction and possible benefits, but its not worth it.
In any event, I think all this discussion is moot. Jack won't play significant time in the guts this year - we trippled down on grunt to assist our classy mids win more ball - that's Dimma's next move.. Whether this is because Dimma's an old stubborn sod or knows about more than us about maximising the return from his football depends on which camp you are in.
on the rare occasions Jack has ventured into the centre square he has shown he can win the ball, he can certainly use it well, and is smart with and without ball in hand.
i reckon he should be used at CBs, sometimes. not to playing 50%, or 40%, or even 25% of the time there. but when we are getting beaten, and beaten up, as we were against the Roos, he should be an option.
he is our best forward and we wouldnt want to change that, but some time onball wouldnt stop him kicking goals, but may help the team kick more, and stop the opposition.
i reckon he should be used at CBs, sometimes. not to playing 50%, or 40%, or even 25% of the time there. but when we are getting beaten, and beaten up, as we were against the Roos, he should be an option.
he is our best forward and we wouldnt want to change that, but some time onball wouldnt stop him kicking goals, but may help the team kick more, and stop the opposition.
Richo version circa 2008Baloo said:
You put your best forward in
You take your best forward out
You put your best forward in and he kicks it out of bounds
