How far off are we really?

[TigerFlag2017]

There's a lot to this. Successful teams have successful leaders.
The Hawks leaders are what makes them a great club.
They know what it takes and stand up in the big moments.
It's impressive.
On the other hand our leaders were found wanting (AGAIN) on the big stage.
Incredibly frustrating.

It is. Particularly when you consider we do have some very talented leaders. Jack, Rance, Lids, Cotch, Maric, even the peacock-strutting Vickery was showing a bit at the end of the year. And Dusty certainly stood up in the final.

However I think it is a result of 30 years of calamity from the club, which now we are seeing is taking a few years to repair. When Lids/Cotchin/Riewoldt came along 7-10 years ago, the number of so-called leaders at the club were minimal and modest at best in ability. Hard to be critical as they all tried their hardest to turn the club around, but guys like Kane Johnston (who Ricciuto harshly said he never thought was captain material) and Chris Newman (who does deserve a lot of credit) offered little in terms of on-field leadership and finals experience to pass on to them. Clearly the likes of Richo and Nathan Brown were larrikins and great guys to have at the club but had picked up bad habits from playing in poor football teams. And guys like Kayne Pettier and Sarge were hardly shining examples from some of our so-called better, more highly credentialed players.

So the challenge for the club and the leadership group (including Rance and Jack) (and bugger off Morris) is to now learn to grab the big games by the neck and consistently do it. I think it partly comes from age. There were certainly some signs this year and exactly why we bear Sydney, Hawthorn, Fremantle, etc. in what were all live, big games. We have just seen the pea-hearted Waite be hailed as a gun recruit who stood up in the finals series, after being a dead-set spud and antithesis of a leader for 80% of his career.

I think age goes along way to helping boys become leaders, and which our mid-20's "stars" will hopefully discover (sooner rather than later preferably!)

 

[Baloo]

Looks like we're miles off the pace when it comes to attracting talent if the pre-trade week whispers are to be believed.

 

[Vlossy]

On the right track definitely. Just got to get another 30 games into guys like CEllis, Lennon, BEllis, Vlastuin, Menadue etc. I know we have disappointed badly in the finals the last 3 years but the core group is spot on age wise. If we can get another great young quick kid with our first pick in the draft and can add a Yarran at minimal expense then I am hopeful we can jump into the top 4 in 2016.

Might be dreaming but I have never seen the club in a better position on and off the field!

 

[[email protected]]

Reality check?
We all desperately hope the team can take the next step but for all the aggressive talk at JD medal, promises to work harder etc....where will the improvement come from? All teams will have the same mantra.
Our top 6 have all played pretty well and may have trouble replicating their performance let alone improving on it.
Not a bad run with injuries. If it went the other way our depth would be exposed.
Rucks will struggle against the better teams.
Miles needs support in and under. Vlaustin, Grimes ,Lennon have upside but the battlers Chaplin, Batchelor, Grigg etc. not a lot.
Still no X factor players and a game plan that won't win finals.
Top 4 required but could easily be 8th - 12th.

 

[Mappa]

I'm not sure if its leadership as a whole we should be worrying about.

I think the issue is more ruthless edge.

If you look at Hawthorn.

Hodge, Roughhead, Lewis, Mitchell they all have a nasty streak.

They will do anything that is required to win.

Smack you in the gob, run through you given the opportunity, knee you, round arm you in a marking contest !

Our leaders have great skills, but don't see any of those, AT ANY COST TRAITS

 

[Bullarto Tiger]

For a number of reasons ... class, toughness, mental aptitude, aggression, skills, player depth ... the Tigers, in my humble opinion, are still a couple of really decent players and a couple of years of experience away from being contenders.

Hawthorn, Geelong and Sydney have set the recent bench marks for premiership standard football, which is all about leadership, dealing with pressure and being able to execute skills at a supreme standard ... the Tigers are not there yet, unfortunately.

 

[KnightersRevenge]

For a number of reasons ... class, toughness, mental aptitude, aggression, skills, player depth ... the Tigers, in my humble opinion, are still a couple of really decent players and a couple of years of experience away from being contenders.

Hawthorn, Geelong and Sydney have set the recent bench marks for premiership standard football, which is all about leadership, dealing with pressure and being able to execute skills at a supreme standard ... the Tigers are not there yet, unfortunately.

Team, team and team. What Geelong/Sydney in years gone by and the Hawks recently have shown is that the intangible sense of cohesion that comes from a group that trusts each other to do the hard things and keep backing each other up will you to victory. When that gels, skills seem to magically improve. Timing becomes impeccable. Scoring efficiency goes up. Dimma is doing the right things in general and you can hear that in the JD Medal speeches and feel it at the club if get the chance to spend some time there. Now to translate that on the field. I reckon we peaked around the Hawthorn H&A game. We were doing the hard stuff. Backing up again and again. Trusting that your team-mate had your back under pressure. But we couldn't hold the line through to finals and in the end we crumbled.

They know two things. 1. What it takes to play to that style of game. 2. That they have the ability to do it.

Go Tiges.

 

[IanG]

I was at a breakfast this morning given by an AFL analyst and he was asked about Richmond, he pointed out that multiple failures often come before success and Richmond needs to persevere and continue refining their approach which I think they are doing. He also said that there was a failure of individual leadership on the ground more than anything else and the individuals need to keep refining the way they approach finals games.

 

[zippadeee]

Things aren't that bad. Treloar (money better spent on someone better)
Bennell (got issues)
Stick to "miles" types. keep picks and off load astbury, Grifftens and Conca
Keep bringing them in to we get the right combination. .

 

[year of the tiger]

Things aren't that bad. Treloar (money better spent on someone better)
Bennell (got issues)
Stick to "miles" types. keep picks and off load astbury, Grifftens and Conca
Keep bringing them in to we get the right combination. .

agree zips

For a number of reasons ... class, toughness, mental aptitude, aggression, skills, player depth ... the Tigers, in my humble opinion, are still a couple of really decent players and a couple of years of experience away from being contenders.

Hawthorn, Geelong and Sydney have set the recent bench marks for premiership standard football, which is all about leadership, dealing with pressure and being able to execute skills at a supreme standard ... the Tigers are not there yet, unfortunately.

Harvey did it this finals series for North
Goodes did it for the Swans when they were winning finals
Hawthorn and Geelong full of on field leaders in their final victories
Wingard for Port
Pav used to do it for Freo

If we get this bit right - then we are very close - but how do we know the current crop can do it in finals - the reason I think we need to find one leader and get them into the club

 

[tigersnake]

Things aren't that bad. Treloar (money better spent on someone better)
Bennell (got issues)
Stick to "miles" types. keep picks and off load astbury, Grifftens and Conca
Keep bringing them in to we get the right combination. .

Mostly agree. My worry is we get desperate for a big fish and pay big fish money for a medium fish, which is against everything we've been about. I don't buy the 'if we can't land a big fish heads should roll' line. There are valid reasons for the way things play out. Hawthorn were 3 years ahead of the game on poaching, it worked out well for them, but now everyone is in a poaching frenzy for a limited pool of players. You can't just say, 'Hawthorn did it and got flags, we should do it'. Yes we should try to add class, but not go off half-cocked. Stick to the modus operandi, don't lose our nerve.

 

[zippadeee]

Mostly agree. My worry is we get desperate for a big fish and pay big fish money for a medium fish, which is against everything we've been about. I don't buy the 'if we can't land a big fish heads should roll' line. There are valid reasons for the way things play out. Hawthorn were 3 years ahead of the game on poaching, it worked out well for them, but now everyone is in a poaching frenzy for a limited pool of players. You can't just say, 'Hawthorn did it and got flags, we should do it'. Yes we should try to add class, but not go off half-cocked. Stick to the modus operandi, don't lose our nerve.

Seriously is Treloar a big fish? Sheild is there number 1 mid
the "big fish "should be only associated to names like Ablett buddy danger and fyfe
The rest a little big fish