Golf

[Redford]

Wow, that's massive.

I know ANGC had been talking about doing something similar for years, as in creating their own golf ball for players to use to help protect the course against improving technology.

How will this work? All manufacturers required to produce balls under a strict set of guidelines I assume? Interesting to see how they go about policing it.

I assume so. The manufacturers will have to produce some sort of “elite” category of ball that meets specific requirements of the USGA and R&A.

Tournament and club hosts will then apply some new local rule that the USGA and R&A have come up with on the day of competition that says play must be conducted on the day/s using this elite category of ball only.

Can you imagine checking the category of balls being used ? Imagine some dubious pro in a local pro event switching to a non conforming ball ? Could get messy.

 

[Mopsy]

I assume so. The manufacturers will have to produce some sort of “elite” category of ball that meets specific requirements of the USGA and R&A.

Tournament and club hosts will then apply some new local rule that the USGA and R&A have come up with on the day of competition that says play must be conducted on the day/s using this elite category of ball only.

Can you imagine checking the category of balls being used ? Imagine some dubious pro in a local pro event switching to a non conforming ball ? Could get messy.

I guess the first step could be to have these "new" balls requiring a special marking of some kind for easy identification.

That could easily be manipulated by an unscrupulous manufacturer though.

Could we see something similar to horse racing here where swabs taken of winning horses show illegal substances in their system, and subsequently disqualified? Will they send a player's ball off for random testing to ensure they are following the rules?

Messy? Certainly has the potential to be.

 

[MD Jazz]

Yeh so and so declared the winner subject to having his balls tested. Sam Pang will have a field day with this.

 

[Redford]

I guess the first step could be to have these "new" balls requiring a special marking of some kind for easy identification.

That could easily be manipulated by an unscrupulous manufacturer though.

Could we see something similar to horse racing here where swabs taken of winning horses show illegal substances in their system, and subsequently disqualified? Will they send a player's ball off for random testing to ensure they are following the rules?

Messy? Certainly has the potential to be.

They’ve been talking about this for years.

On one hand it seems good because it stops all these great courses from being made obsolete by increasing and out of control technology. Clubs and courses only have so much land. It also speeds up play and some other things.

But on the other hand, amateurs still wanna know how they compare v the pros when they are playing the same courses. Won’t be able to do that now.

 

[Mopsy]

They’ve been talking about this for years.

On one hand it seems good because it stops all these great courses from being made obsolete by increasing and out of control technology. Clubs and courses only have so much land. It also speeds up play and some other things.

But on the other hand, amateurs still wanna know how they compare v the pros when they are playing the same courses. Won’t be able to do that now.

I like the idea behind it, as you say many courses have become defenceless over the years to improved technology.

Augusta have bought some adjoining land around the course, and have lengthened the tee shot on 13. It's going to be interesting to see how that changes the dynamic of the hole.

 

[leon]

While I agree that Rory has been a bit too outspoken on Liv and should probably have left it up to the uspga to do the defending of there comp, I don’t know if it has anything to do with money. He would have been offered huge amounts of money to do the same. I think he preferred the previous system either cos of the unity the players had or it was a moral standpoint.
I don’t see how the morals of the uspga and the Liv can be compared. The LIV tour is completely Saudi government backed, which, let’s face it have been horrendous when it comes to human rights. The USPGA is not strictly a US government run competition, so to bring up the US and their questionable values doesn’t really compare.
I actually like Rory, and think he’s a good ambassador for the game and I think he’s been treated a bit harshly.

Of course it has to with money, as in main reason pros like DJ and Cam Smith defected was huge millions in sign-on offers. This led to a series of PGA counter-measures which mostly involve a lot more money to incentivise the big name players (like the top 3 - Cheff, Rory and Rahm) to play against each other for higher purses, or no cuts with smaller, premium fields). The whole 'refresh' is funded by vast PGA and corporate sums prompted by the LIV threat.

Don't mind Rory much as a person, great player, but not sure why he took on the role of chief PGA defender, seemed to stem from his 2022 role on the PGA board as player's rep. Sure, LIV backed by huge SA $$$, and obviously PGA is NOT US govt., but sponsored by many huge corporations who also do huge business with Saudis. Also US PGA has virtually made themselves world controllers of golf with its huge budgets and prizemoney so many smaller international golf tours like Australian have been decimated, unable to co-exist with almost non-stop US tournaments. My point is that neither group are squeaky clean morally although SA is shocking. [You can go and investigate the effects of George W Bush's 'war on terror" on Iraq too, based on false claims of WMDs. That was US government and history of the ME leaves little reason for Arabian nations to respect the US.]

But all this LIV/US PGA conflict has been covered on this. thread. You really need to go back and read numerous prior pgs and make yourself familiar with the whole debate.

 

[leon]

Changing the golf ball.

It will be rolled back for professional events with, apparently, between 15 to 30 yards less distance off the tee.

In other words, reducing the distance performance of the golf ball back to something like a 1990’s equivalent for elite or professional events.

Inevitable and definitely a good thing IMO.

 

[leon]

They’ve been talking about this for years.

On one hand it seems good because it stops all these great courses from being made obsolete by increasing and out of control technology. Clubs and courses only have so much land. It also speeds up play and some other things.

But on the other hand, amateurs still wanna know how they compare v the pros when they are playing the same courses. Won’t be able to do that now.

Yep, these are the reasons although I think the key governing bodies needed to act years earlier. Technology can't be allowed to almost destroy golf courses although it's also really difficult to suppress innovation.

Guess it might be run like big tennis tourneys where everyone must play with the sponsors' approved balls provided but with random spot checks by refs and officials. Fortunately, I'd say about 98% of pros are trustworthy.

 

[Redford]

Yep, these are the reasons although I think the key governing bodies needed to act years earlier. Technology can't be allowed to almost destroy golf courses although it's also really difficult to suppress innovation.

Guess it might be run like big tennis tourneys where everyone must play with the sponsors' approved balls provided but with random spot checks by refs and officials. Fortunately, I'd say about 98% of pros are trustworthy.

The key there is that they should have put a stop to this with the golf ball for every golfer worldwide years ago. But they didn’t have the guts. If they did, it would have been a complete solution for all golfers - pros and amateurs. But they’ve let it go too long now such that they have to have this cumbersome, bifurcated approach. Weak as pizz.

I reckon Jack Nicklaus was calling for this 25 plus years ago - across the entire game.

 

[MD Jazz]

I reckon Jack Nicklaus was calling for this 25 plus years ago - across the entire game.

Spot on. He really does have the games best interests at heart in everything he does. He's a golf lover.

 

[MD Jazz]

Callaway Paradym fairway woods. Just had a hit with them. Bloody nice clubs. Getting the 5 Wood back in the bag. Was always was favourite club as a kid but stopped using them. Can't wait to get on course with it. (bloody expensive though)

 

[Redford]

I remember when Pro V 1’s first came out. I couldn’t believe the significantly increased performance of the golf ball.

 

[Wildride]

Wouldn't it be easy to simply have a control ball, which is supplied to each player at each event? That way there can't be any questions of players using non-conforming balls.

 

[Mopsy]

Wouldn't it be easy to simply have a control ball, which is supplied to each player at each event? That way there can't be any questions of players using non-conforming balls.

Yes that would be the simple solution.

But I suspect you then have players getting upset at missing out on sponsorship dollars.

 

[tigerman]

Yeh so and so declared the winner subject to having his balls tested. Sam Pang will have a field day with this.

Especially if his balls are found to have hot dots on them.

 

[Redford]

Wouldn't it be easy to simply have a control ball, which is supplied to each player at each event? That way there can't be any questions of players using non-conforming balls.

As an extension of Moops’ post, the sale of the golf ball is the golf manufacturer’s number 1 most profitable product. By a mile. No player or manufacturer is gonna accept a control ball made by the one manufacturer - which is what you’d need if you were to have a control ball.

Suspect manufacturers will have to register with the R&A and USGA to produce an “Elite Competition” ball which is then certified for play by the R&A and USGA.

Might get messy and contentious. Seems like every time a pro tees it up at the start of a pro event and every time they use a new ball, they’re gonna have to show officials and/or playing partners, who are then gonna have to check that it’s R&A and USGA certified.

Hmmm.

 

[kyuss]

Of course it has to with money, as in main reason pros like DJ and Cam Smith defected was huge millions in sign-on offers. This led to a series of PGA counter-measures which mostly involve a lot more money to incentivise the big name players (like the top 3 - Cheff, Rory and Rahm) to play against each other for higher purses, or no cuts with smaller, premium fields). The whole 'refresh' is funded by vast PGA and corporate sums prompted by the LIV threat.

Don't mind Rory much as a person, great player, but not sure why he took on the role of chief PGA defender, seemed to stem from his 2022 role on the PGA board as player's rep. Sure, LIV backed by huge SA $$$, and obviously PGA is NOT US govt., but sponsored by many huge corporations who also do huge business with Saudis. Also US PGA has virtually made themselves world controllers of golf with its huge budgets and prizemoney so many smaller international golf tours like Australian have been decimated, unable to co-exist with almost non-stop US tournaments. My point is that neither group are squeaky clean morally although SA is shocking. [You can go and investigate the effects of George W Bush's 'war on terror" on Iraq too, based on false claims of WMDs. That was US government and history of the ME leaves little reason for Arabian nations to respect the US.]

But all this LIV/US PGA conflict has been covered on this. thread. You really need to go back and read numerous prior pgs and make yourself familiar with the whole debate.

Fair enough, sounds like I missed the debate, so should no longer speak about it. Still don’t know what George W Bush’s war on terror has to do with the uspga. I’ll go back and read about it.

 

[leon]

Wouldn't it be easy to simply have a control ball, which is supplied to each player at each event? That way there can't be any questions of players using non-conforming balls.

If you looked above, I had just posted this at #6288: " ... where everyone must play with the sponsors' approved balls provided but with random spot checks by refs and officials ... "
Never mind.

 

[leon]

Fair enough, sounds like I missed the debate, so should no longer speak about it. Still don’t know what George W Bush’s war on terror has to do with the uspga. I’ll go back and read about it.

The relevance is, if you want to condemn the Saudis for their evil deeds, then have a look at what the US has done in the ME also:

" No one knows with certainty how many people have been killed and wounded in Iraq since the 2003 United States invasion. However, we know that between 275,000 and 306,000 civilians have died from direct war related violence caused by the U.S., its allies, the Iraqi military and police, and opposition forces from the time of the invasion through October 2019." [Quoted from US Brown University website below]

Iraqi Civilians | Costs of War

The Costs of War Project is a team of 35 scholars, legal experts, human rights practitioners, and physicians, which began its work in 2011. We use research and a public website to facilitate debate about the costs of the post-9/11 wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan.

watson.brown.edu

So you still think the USA owns the higher moral ground? And that's just one conflict the US has been responsible for.

 

[kyuss]

The relevance is, if you want to condemn the Saudis for their evil deeds, then have a look at what the US has done in the ME also:

" No one knows with certainty how many people have been killed and wounded in Iraq since the 2003 United States invasion. However, we know that between 275,000 and 306,000 civilians have died from direct war related violence caused by the U.S., its allies, the Iraqi military and police, and opposition forces from the time of the invasion through October 2019." [Quoted from US Brown University website below]

Iraqi Civilians | Costs of War

The Costs of War Project is a team of 35 scholars, legal experts, human rights practitioners, and physicians, which began its work in 2011. We use research and a public website to facilitate debate about the costs of the post-9/11 wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan.

watson.brown.edu

So you still think the USA owns the higher moral ground? And that's just one conflict the US has been responsible for.

But the USPGA isn’t run by the US government. LIV is completely funded by th Saudi government. Really not that hard to understand the difference.