Global Warming

[This Is Anfield]

Call it whatever you want, (your use of that term gives away your anti-science flat-earth bias) but correct.

Maybe yes, maybe no - maybe just a statement of fact with no bias at all.
Do you deny that there is a flourishing Global Warming Industry?

 

[Giardiasis]

in a nutshell, people not being paid in accordance to their value. There's high finance spivs on millions, then there is everyone else. There will always be some out-of-whackness, and people will debate the worth of individual professions, but finance just got too far out of whack to be sustainable, something had to give, and it did.

Thanks.

 

[tigersnake]

Maybe yes, maybe no - maybe just a statement of fact with no bias at all.
Do you deny that there is a flourishing Global Warming Industry?

 

[tigergollywog]

Maybe yes, maybe no - maybe just a statement of fact with no bias at all.
Do you deny that there is a flourishing Global Warming Industry?

Your not a more reasonable reincarnation of Liverpool are you TIA?

 

[Brodders17]

That sounds wonderful, and if it was true, the market would naturally move in that direction by itself. Alas the fact is that it requires significant tax payer subsidies for current green technologies to be adopted.

Good to see you throwing your money in what you believe will make money. Personally I think I can put my money to better use. Alas I can't stop the government stealing a fair chunk of my wages to pay for their green visions.

if only government money went toward the coal industry.....

 

[bullus_hit]

if only government money went toward the coal industry.....

:hihi The fossil fuel fundies can't get their head around the fact that coal receives a stupid amount in subsidies. It basically boils down to the oligarchs maintaining the status quo and greasing up their political lap dogs. Abbott is more than happy to undermine clean energy because he's in bed with Miss Piggy, he's even winding back profitable enterprises such as the Clean Energy Finance Corporation.

Those still aboard the coal train are headed for a rude shock. With China's demand on the wane and many countries forging ahead with renewables, investing in brown coal seems to be foolish in the extreme, particularly when one considers the external effects such as a dying Great Barrier Reef.

 

[mld]

Miss Piggy

I suppose misogyny is okay when the target is a conservative mining baroness.

 

[bullus_hit]

I suppose misogyny is okay when the target is a conservative mining baroness.

Couldn't care less if she was male or female, she just strikes me as a woman drunk on her own power, even at the expense of her own flesh and blood. Not my type of person, irrespective of gender. And let's be honest here, Rinehart has bankrolled Bolt's serial misogyny for years, I certainly haven't detected any scruples in the wake of vicious character assassinations directed at Gillard, Wong, Milne and a host of other female politicians.

 

[mld]

Couldn't care less if she was male or female, she just strikes me as a woman drunk on her own power, even at the expense of her own flesh and blood. Not my type of person, irrespective of gender. And let's be honest here, Rinehart has bankrolled Bolt's serial misogyny for years, I certainly haven't detected any scruples in the wake of vicious character assassinations directed at Gillard, Wong, Milne and a host of other female politicians.

Ah, so it is okay if the other side is doing it.

 

[KnightersRevenge]

Ah, so it is okay if the other side is doing it.

Your point is well made, but on topic what of the subsidies to mining?

 

[mld]

Your point is well made, but on topic what of the subsidies to mining?

That was what threw me, I felt it was a point well made until the misogyny jarred me.

I've made the point back in the day that I wanted a Productivity Commission investigation to define exactly how much in subsidies the fossil fuel industries were receiving from state and federal governments in order to remove them.

 

[bullus_hit]

Ah, so it is okay if the other side is doing it.

In defence of a great muppet I retract my earlier comment.


"Technologie, moi must admit, is not moi's cup of java" - Miss Piggy

 

[KnightersRevenge]

That was what threw me, I felt it was a point well made until the misogyny jarred me.

I've made the point back in the day that I wanted a Productivity Commission investigation to define exactly how much in subsidies the fossil fuel industries were receiving from state and federal governments in order to remove them.

Not sure we would ever get to the nuts and bolts of all the assistance handed out across all the different sectors. The proliferation of "cabinet in confidence" and "commercial in confidence" and the stonewalling of governments of all descriptions on F of I has to be verging (being kind) on unconstitutional doesn't it? I am not partisan on this, Bracks got the Victorian Government addicted to it.

I wonder Masters' Julian or Edward could shed any light on the subject?

 

[Giardiasis]

if only government money went toward the coal industry.....

All government handouts to business should be revoked. However it is difficult to take seriously opinions that propose that windmills and solar panels would be used in preference to coal fired power stations in the absence of government subsidies.

 

[tigersnake]

All government handouts to business should be revoked. However it is difficult to take seriously opinions that propose that windmills and solar panels would be used in preference to coal fired power stations in the absence of government subsidies.

Not difficult, very easy. IF you accept that externalising pollution is a market failure. You don't, as is your right.

agree that in a perfect world, government would not subsidise business. But its not a perfect world.

 

[Giardiasis]

Not difficult, very easy. IF you accept that externalising pollution is a market failure. You don't, as is your right.

agree that in a perfect world, government would not subsidise business. But its not a perfect world.

The key question is what do everyday people think? Personally I don’t think many would even consider your proposition, let alone agree with it.

 

[tigersnake]

The key question is what do everyday people think? Personally I don’t think many would even consider your proposition, let alone agree with it.

There is a shipload of research data on this G. Most people agree with my proposition. We could back and forth all day, muddying the waters about what the questions were, the results etc, but to nutshell it, a majority of people believe that policy change is needed to address the market failure that it is currently free to pollute the air. (edit: it hasn't been free to pollute from July 1, but it probably will be again sometime next year)

 

[Giardiasis]

There is a shipload of research data on this G. Most people agree with my proposition. We could back and forth all day, muddying the waters about what the questions were, the results etc, but to nutshell it, a majority of people believe that policy change is needed to address the market failure that it is currently free to pollute the air.

If that were true, then you’d expect to see a massive uptake for offsetting carbon dioxide emissions for airlines for example. In reality you see about a 5% uptake.

 

[bullus_hit]

The key question is what do everyday people think? Personally I don’t think many would even consider your proposition, let alone agree with it.

Based on what exactly? Over 80% of Australians believe climate change is a clear and present danger, most of those agree we need to act. Whether or not you agree with a carbon tax shouldn't obscure the fact that the vast majority of Australians don't subscribe to the conspiracy theories that are peddled by the fossil fuel lobby groups.

All government handouts to business should be revoked. However it is difficult to take seriously opinions that propose that windmills and solar panels would be used in preference to coal fired power stations in the absence of government subsidies.

There are many situations where wind is more efficient than coal, South Australia sources 27% of it's power from renewables. As for solar, it is far cheaper to install solar panels in areas isolated from the electricity grid, this is extremely relevant to developing nations that are lacking in basic infrastructure. The notion that coal trumps renewables in every situation is just plain wrong.

 

[tigersnake]

If that were true, then you’d expect to see a massive uptake for offsetting carbon dioxide emissions for airlines for example. In reality you see about a 5% uptake.

Its a fair point. But the figures on the level of concern are clear. They have slipped backwards, and also willingness to act has slipped, for all sorts of reasons. Leadership is required on this complex issue which requires long term committment. Its not happening, the opposite is happening where the government validates extreme views, and not helped by vested interests muddying the waters and media imbalance (all well documented)

But I take your point, but I don't think it is as you paint it. People know theres a problem, know something should be done, but their willingness to act isn't matching the belief and concern. Personally I think the is a fair bit os the 'well things are probably stuffed anyway, so why put myself out' perspective. Which is disappointing, but understandable.

putting all that aside, carbon offsetting is not a real solution in my view, it was a good initial initiative to get people thinking.