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Game day thread Tiges vs Saints - round 22 2023
- Thread starter Tigers of Old
- Start date
Good on Mini for calling them out. However, I'm just more puzzled why he coached from the bench today then. I think up in the box a coach can let rip a lot more easily and tell some players hard truths, although the cameras are always on the look for it. But maybe get up the back.
On the bench, you cannot show emotions much at all.
I took notes on the nature of scoring opportunities in this match.
Below is a list of 44 scoring opportunities and the events that preceded them. Some variables I paid attention to included:
- mark vs general play
- fast vs slow ball movement beforehand
- long vs short I50 entries
- the chain of preceding possessions that created the shot on goal
- overhead vs chest marks
- 2v1 and protecting space for teammate
- etc
It was surprisingly consuming to pay attention to every one of these variables throughout the game, so I ended up missing some details. I was totally focused on the connection between players rather than the individuals themselves.
I’m also potentially biased in the sense I’m trying to confirm my view that height is overrated. I attribute our dynasty to tactical (and cultural) advantages more than most people do, and enjoy watching us through the lens of “what moneyball priorities do we have that give us such an advantage over the competition?” and our small forward line has always been high on that list. So please keep that in mind.
The nature of all scoring opportunities for St Kilda vs Richmond:
1. Them. Opportunity created by turnover at 60m, followed by a quick, short dribble kick I50. A player runs onto the dribbling ball and kicks a running goal while defenders are out of position. Ground ball. General play. At pace.
2. Them. Loose ball I50, player handballs to another teammate I50, who then snaps off one step in general play in space
3. Us. From a chaos pack situation I50, we win the contested ball in tight, then get a short handball out to a teammate who snaps after taking a few steps
4. Them. We turned it over in the middle, they quickly kicked long to a free man out the back in open space who marked on the chest 40m out.
5. Them. One short kick I50, then a second short kick while already I50, then a handball while I50 to a player who snaps off one step. (Chain of 3 I50 possessions between 4 teammates)
6. Them. Short kick (30m) to 60m out from goal, then another short kick (30m) for an uncontested chest mark 30m out in front. Chain of short kicks marked on the chest in space.
7. Us (behind). Long kick I50 to space, ball hits ground, we scoop up and kick from 40m after a few steps (note: I think this example was Dusty doing a U-turn off memory)
8. Us (behind). Long kick to 50m out, then we get a free kick due to blocking when in a 1v2 disadvantage state. Small forward (Baker) received the free. Correct umpiring decision. We got lucky due to their defenders panicking even after they had the contest won while holding an advantage state over us.
9. Us. They turned it over in their D50, we ran and kicked long across the full length of the ground to create an isolated 1v1 contest 10m out from goal. Dusty kicked long I50 to the advantage side of Jack, who marked overhead, while protecting the space with his knee in his opponent’s back. Note: basic stats record this as a contested mark, but if you pay closer attention, it was actually about fast ball movement creating a clear advantage side for Jack, and the ball being delivered precisely (by Dusty) to capitalise on that space, so this was about 2 highly skilled players on the same wavelength after fast ball movement up the full length of the ground following a turnover - not a bomb to a pack - and it required Jack to simply be smart enough and coordinated enough to control the space made possible by turnover, in which case the defender never had any chance of touching the ball after it left Dusty’s boot. I think Bolton could’ve taken the same mark, as it was not a situation made possible due to the height of the forward.
10. Us. Fast ball movement up the ground, then a high 40m lob kick to the top of the goal square, uncontested chest mark in space. Space created by a combination of fast ball movement up the ground + unpredictable lob kick for entry.
11. Them. From turnover in mid, fast slingshot play with 2x short kicks (30m each) connected by an overlapping handball, leading to an uncontested mark overhead 40m out. Chain of 3 quick, short possessions between 4 players in space after a turnover. Hard for our defenders to read.
12. Them. Short kick to a pack I50 dribbles to ground, they handball out of the pack to a pressured player who snaps off two steps after breaking a tackle.
13. Them. Fast ball movement followed by a long kick, then handball, and then a 50m kick to mark uncontested 1v1 40m out on an angle. Miss.
14. Them. Umpire decided to award them a random free kick from a stoppage I50.
15. Them (behind). Umpire decided to award them a free kick in a 1v1 marking contest.
16. Us. I wasn’t paying attention to this entry because I momentarily got upset at the umpire for not paying a 50m penalty to Riewoldt after marking 70m out. My bad. I assume he kicked short to someone 40m out.
17. Them. Umpire decided to award them a free kick in the goal square. It was after full ground ball movement and a 50m kick I50 to 1v1 tall forward. Under mounting scoreboard pressure, defenders are giving away more free kicks. They should use mindfulness to better protect themselves from scoreboard pressure affecting technique. Understandable, but fixable.
18. Us. Intercept mark, fast ball movement to 60m out - chest mark in space. Then quick 50m kick I50 to 2v1 advantage in goal square. The small forward took an easy chest mark uncontested while the big guy protected his space by standing in the path of the defender. Turnover, fast play, 2v1, teammate protected space for easy mark.
19. Us. Centre clearance, tap ball forward to advantage, handball, miss from 50m on the run
20. Them. At pace, 2x handballs, then a short 20m kick from 50m out to a free player 30m out, who took an easy chest mark uncontested in space with nobody anywhere near him - again, a chain of 3 quick, short possessions between 4 players.
21. Us. From mid, a handball + short 20m kick to Jack 50m out… but Jack elected not to mark the ball while someone was hot on his tail and instead knocks the ball in front of him for a small forward to easily crumb to kick from 50m off one step. Classic 2017 Richmond forward play.
22. Them. Turnover at 50m, quick handball, then short low kick I50 to take a chest mark uncontested in space. Chain of 2 quick, short possessions between 3 players after a turnover. Hard for defenders to read.
23. Us. Crumb I50, three I50 handballs then kick off one step while in space, miss.
24. Them. Long kick I50 to a pack, small player crumbs, I50 handball to teammate, snap and miss
25. Them. At a throw in, they get a crumbing snap from pack, miss
26. Them. Chain of 3x I50 handballs under pressure, spin and snap, miss
27. Them. We tried to hack kick out of D50 while under pressure, they intercept with an uncontested chest mark on 50m, miss.
28. Us. From chaos we get an I50 handball, then short 20m kick to free player who takes an uncontested chest mark under no pressure 20m out directly in front.
29. Us. Centre clearance then short 20m kick I50 to free player 40m out who takes uncontested chest mark in wide open space, miss
30. Them. After a slow play, long 50m kick I50 to big ugly pack… nobody marks, but they win a soft free kick to their tall forward who wasn’t going to mark it anyway. The threat of a tall marking the ball was a factor in giving away a free kick when we already had the contest won.
31. Them. After a slow play, from 60m out they kicked short and sideways, then again short (20m) I50 to a free player who marks uncontested on his chest. (Next play we are in the same situation and we kick long I50 to a big ugly pack… they intercept and run the ball the full length of the ground…)
32. Us (behind). Several fast, short kicks down the ground to mark uncontested on the chest at 50m for a shot on goal - however, the shot falls short and our tall forward takes a strong contested overhead mark on the line. This is the first example of a tall contested pack mark. It was assisted by the unpredictable kick to the goal line, and a teammate helping to protect the space.
33. Them. Again short (30m) kick I50 for uncontested chest mark in space 40m out, miss
34. Them. Crumb I50, two I50 handballs then a short 20m kick into space to mark uncontested on the chest.
35. Them. Centre clearance then short kick I50 (30m) to a contested chest mark on the lead 40m out in front, miss
36. Us. Short kick I50 to mark uncontested on the chest in space, then another short kick I50 for a second uncontested mark on the chest in space.
37. Us. From a dribbling ball I50 a small forward snaps off a few steps, miss
38. Us. Intercept mark I50, immediately play on and kick in space (Broad)
39. Us. Short, low bullet kick I50 to mark uncontested on the chest in space 30m out.
40. Them. Short kick I50 to mark uncontested on the chest, second short kick I50 to mark contested on the chest on the boundary, miss
41. Us. Short kick to 60m out for uncontested chest mark, then a quick low 40m bullet pass I50 to take a chest mark uncontested in space 10m out after a 2v1 to our advantage so a teammate could help keep space.
42. Them. Late in game, quick ball movement up the ground (2 long kicks) I50 to a 2v1 to their advantage - we spoil, but they crumb and snap, ball falls short and we spoil it over the line
43. Us. Handball then long shot on goal from 50m out, ball falls short, we crumb and snap, miss.
44. Us (behind). Slow long kick I50 to big ugly pack, and Nank takes a big, strong overhead contested mark. It finally happened. In the final minute of the game, a big brute of a man finally bullied his way into taking a big ugly pack mark I50. It’s nice when it happens.
Overall, a common theme for both teams was the connection between multiple teammates running into space following short, fast ball movement for either a handball receive or an easy uncontested chest mark. Space I50 is often created after a turnover, capitalising on the limited window of time in which the opposition is less prepared to defend using their ideal structures. The overwhelming majority of I50 entries are short kicks to an uncontested player. Chaining I50 handballs is effective.
I found it interesting watching the game from this perspective. Feel free to identify more trends from the above!
Below is a list of 44 scoring opportunities and the events that preceded them. Some variables I paid attention to included:
- mark vs general play
- fast vs slow ball movement beforehand
- long vs short I50 entries
- the chain of preceding possessions that created the shot on goal
- overhead vs chest marks
- 2v1 and protecting space for teammate
- etc
It was surprisingly consuming to pay attention to every one of these variables throughout the game, so I ended up missing some details. I was totally focused on the connection between players rather than the individuals themselves.
I’m also potentially biased in the sense I’m trying to confirm my view that height is overrated. I attribute our dynasty to tactical (and cultural) advantages more than most people do, and enjoy watching us through the lens of “what moneyball priorities do we have that give us such an advantage over the competition?” and our small forward line has always been high on that list. So please keep that in mind.
The nature of all scoring opportunities for St Kilda vs Richmond:
1. Them. Opportunity created by turnover at 60m, followed by a quick, short dribble kick I50. A player runs onto the dribbling ball and kicks a running goal while defenders are out of position. Ground ball. General play. At pace.
2. Them. Loose ball I50, player handballs to another teammate I50, who then snaps off one step in general play in space
3. Us. From a chaos pack situation I50, we win the contested ball in tight, then get a short handball out to a teammate who snaps after taking a few steps
4. Them. We turned it over in the middle, they quickly kicked long to a free man out the back in open space who marked on the chest 40m out.
5. Them. One short kick I50, then a second short kick while already I50, then a handball while I50 to a player who snaps off one step. (Chain of 3 I50 possessions between 4 teammates)
6. Them. Short kick (30m) to 60m out from goal, then another short kick (30m) for an uncontested chest mark 30m out in front. Chain of short kicks marked on the chest in space.
7. Us (behind). Long kick I50 to space, ball hits ground, we scoop up and kick from 40m after a few steps (note: I think this example was Dusty doing a U-turn off memory)
8. Us (behind). Long kick to 50m out, then we get a free kick due to blocking when in a 1v2 disadvantage state. Small forward (Baker) received the free. Correct umpiring decision. We got lucky due to their defenders panicking even after they had the contest won while holding an advantage state over us.
9. Us. They turned it over in their D50, we ran and kicked long across the full length of the ground to create an isolated 1v1 contest 10m out from goal. Dusty kicked long I50 to the advantage side of Jack, who marked overhead, while protecting the space with his knee in his opponent’s back. Note: basic stats record this as a contested mark, but if you pay closer attention, it was actually about fast ball movement creating a clear advantage side for Jack, and the ball being delivered precisely (by Dusty) to capitalise on that space, so this was about 2 highly skilled players on the same wavelength after fast ball movement up the full length of the ground following a turnover - not a bomb to a pack - and it required Jack to simply be smart enough and coordinated enough to control the space made possible by turnover, in which case the defender never had any chance of touching the ball after it left Dusty’s boot. I think Bolton could’ve taken the same mark, as it was not a situation made possible due to the height of the forward.
10. Us. Fast ball movement up the ground, then a high 40m lob kick to the top of the goal square, uncontested chest mark in space. Space created by a combination of fast ball movement up the ground + unpredictable lob kick for entry.
11. Them. From turnover in mid, fast slingshot play with 2x short kicks (30m each) connected by an overlapping handball, leading to an uncontested mark overhead 40m out. Chain of 3 quick, short possessions between 4 players in space after a turnover. Hard for our defenders to read.
12. Them. Short kick to a pack I50 dribbles to ground, they handball out of the pack to a pressured player who snaps off two steps after breaking a tackle.
13. Them. Fast ball movement followed by a long kick, then handball, and then a 50m kick to mark uncontested 1v1 40m out on an angle. Miss.
14. Them. Umpire decided to award them a random free kick from a stoppage I50.
15. Them (behind). Umpire decided to award them a free kick in a 1v1 marking contest.
16. Us. I wasn’t paying attention to this entry because I momentarily got upset at the umpire for not paying a 50m penalty to Riewoldt after marking 70m out. My bad. I assume he kicked short to someone 40m out.
17. Them. Umpire decided to award them a free kick in the goal square. It was after full ground ball movement and a 50m kick I50 to 1v1 tall forward. Under mounting scoreboard pressure, defenders are giving away more free kicks. They should use mindfulness to better protect themselves from scoreboard pressure affecting technique. Understandable, but fixable.
18. Us. Intercept mark, fast ball movement to 60m out - chest mark in space. Then quick 50m kick I50 to 2v1 advantage in goal square. The small forward took an easy chest mark uncontested while the big guy protected his space by standing in the path of the defender. Turnover, fast play, 2v1, teammate protected space for easy mark.
19. Us. Centre clearance, tap ball forward to advantage, handball, miss from 50m on the run
20. Them. At pace, 2x handballs, then a short 20m kick from 50m out to a free player 30m out, who took an easy chest mark uncontested in space with nobody anywhere near him - again, a chain of 3 quick, short possessions between 4 players.
21. Us. From mid, a handball + short 20m kick to Jack 50m out… but Jack elected not to mark the ball while someone was hot on his tail and instead knocks the ball in front of him for a small forward to easily crumb to kick from 50m off one step. Classic 2017 Richmond forward play.
22. Them. Turnover at 50m, quick handball, then short low kick I50 to take a chest mark uncontested in space. Chain of 2 quick, short possessions between 3 players after a turnover. Hard for defenders to read.
23. Us. Crumb I50, three I50 handballs then kick off one step while in space, miss.
24. Them. Long kick I50 to a pack, small player crumbs, I50 handball to teammate, snap and miss
25. Them. At a throw in, they get a crumbing snap from pack, miss
26. Them. Chain of 3x I50 handballs under pressure, spin and snap, miss
27. Them. We tried to hack kick out of D50 while under pressure, they intercept with an uncontested chest mark on 50m, miss.
28. Us. From chaos we get an I50 handball, then short 20m kick to free player who takes an uncontested chest mark under no pressure 20m out directly in front.
29. Us. Centre clearance then short 20m kick I50 to free player 40m out who takes uncontested chest mark in wide open space, miss
30. Them. After a slow play, long 50m kick I50 to big ugly pack… nobody marks, but they win a soft free kick to their tall forward who wasn’t going to mark it anyway. The threat of a tall marking the ball was a factor in giving away a free kick when we already had the contest won.
31. Them. After a slow play, from 60m out they kicked short and sideways, then again short (20m) I50 to a free player who marks uncontested on his chest. (Next play we are in the same situation and we kick long I50 to a big ugly pack… they intercept and run the ball the full length of the ground…)
32. Us (behind). Several fast, short kicks down the ground to mark uncontested on the chest at 50m for a shot on goal - however, the shot falls short and our tall forward takes a strong contested overhead mark on the line. This is the first example of a tall contested pack mark. It was assisted by the unpredictable kick to the goal line, and a teammate helping to protect the space.
33. Them. Again short (30m) kick I50 for uncontested chest mark in space 40m out, miss
34. Them. Crumb I50, two I50 handballs then a short 20m kick into space to mark uncontested on the chest.
35. Them. Centre clearance then short kick I50 (30m) to a contested chest mark on the lead 40m out in front, miss
36. Us. Short kick I50 to mark uncontested on the chest in space, then another short kick I50 for a second uncontested mark on the chest in space.
37. Us. From a dribbling ball I50 a small forward snaps off a few steps, miss
38. Us. Intercept mark I50, immediately play on and kick in space (Broad)
39. Us. Short, low bullet kick I50 to mark uncontested on the chest in space 30m out.
40. Them. Short kick I50 to mark uncontested on the chest, second short kick I50 to mark contested on the chest on the boundary, miss
41. Us. Short kick to 60m out for uncontested chest mark, then a quick low 40m bullet pass I50 to take a chest mark uncontested in space 10m out after a 2v1 to our advantage so a teammate could help keep space.
42. Them. Late in game, quick ball movement up the ground (2 long kicks) I50 to a 2v1 to their advantage - we spoil, but they crumb and snap, ball falls short and we spoil it over the line
43. Us. Handball then long shot on goal from 50m out, ball falls short, we crumb and snap, miss.
44. Us (behind). Slow long kick I50 to big ugly pack, and Nank takes a big, strong overhead contested mark. It finally happened. In the final minute of the game, a big brute of a man finally bullied his way into taking a big ugly pack mark I50. It’s nice when it happens.
Overall, a common theme for both teams was the connection between multiple teammates running into space following short, fast ball movement for either a handball receive or an easy uncontested chest mark. Space I50 is often created after a turnover, capitalising on the limited window of time in which the opposition is less prepared to defend using their ideal structures. The overwhelming majority of I50 entries are short kicks to an uncontested player. Chaining I50 handballs is effective.
I found it interesting watching the game from this perspective. Feel free to identify more trends from the above!
Maybe his winery has been hit hard by the Chinese ban?
Gotta keep his day job going
Yer, I have to work most Sunday arvos again so rush home avoiding any coverage and watch it on Kayo from the start. However, although I laways watch the whole match to the end - plenty of great turnaround games with the Tiggers over recent years, from playing smile to a glorious comeback win - even Dawks game just weeks ago.
But today, i got to near end of 2nd half when Balta gave away that stupod high tackle on the really annoying Higgins, and that was all I could take! What I was seeing was just too hard to bear. Our demise has just come about far too easily and rapidly to me, when other teams are really battling really hard to play finals. Even the Bummers are falling over the line.
I'll got next week for Cotch, but honestly, if we don't fire up and at least stop reverting to such stupid football, like today, I will be quite angry I think.
We are tracking the eagles. Three years behind them.
only proviso is how good Lynch is when returns in 2024. If he phones it in then we are in diabolical trouble.
only proviso is how good Lynch is when returns in 2024. If he phones it in then we are in diabolical trouble.
Suggest we trade Balta out
Need to get into the draft again
Had enough of the smiling and laughing when we are getting pumped
Not funny
My word, just how times has he been whacked with the Ugly Stick and that NOSE, looks like they may have used his "PP" as a replacement.
Would love to have the patience to read it all,but he'll checked out quater the way down.
What’s Teague at Richmond
The Teague Train was totally a derailment at the Blues
After backstabbing Bolton
Amazing Dimma gave him job
Needs to go in 2 weeks
