-
IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.
Essendon = Entitlement
- Thread starter Number8
- Start date
No, I don't believe anyone was trying to rort the system or deliberately operate outside the code to try and get and advantage, Essendon included.
My feeling is Dank thought what he was doing was ok, he was just too dumb to know the difference.
What I think is there were Essendon and three other clubs who were taking huge volumes of supplements and were being led in it by people who shouldn't have been in that position. The process in substance verification and recording what was administered is non-existent. The likelihood most players at those clubs, and the clubs themselves, trangressed the codes is certain in my opinion.
The second group of 10-12 clubs were doing much the same thing but on a lesser scale. Lots of supplements, little expertise, poor processes. There was also lots of players who were taking stuff outside of club supervision, due to a lack of attention in the education programs. So thinking if something is sold at the chemist it must be ok, or if a website says the product is legal then it must be.
Again, not malicious, just ignorant but highly likely to have been outside the code requirements. I suspect we would have seen large numbers of players suspended from those clubs, probably in the range of 50%.
Important to note as well, my opinion has been shaped by what the AFL has told us. They confirmed the wide spread issues in an address by their Chief Medical Officer to every club's medical teams.
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl...ement-use-by-12-afl-clubs-20131016-2vm11.html
I'm not sure if you mean 20-30 injections per individual or as a collective but the things I've seen indicate it was about 40 per player across the season, about 1 a week.
Again though, why would you question an 'expert' who told you this was the best way to go, as well as being legal and safe? It's not like injections weren't commonplace in an AFL environment. I heard Steve Johnson last night talk about having four just to undertake a fitness test. Not long before that players were running around with tape over canulas so they could be quickly hooked up to IV drips at half time.
I'm not sure what you mean about records? As I said records should have been kept by Dank, overseen by Robinson, Hamilton and Robson.
I don't follow the link between Hird and Goodwin taking supplements either? Again they are trusting an 'expert' who tells them this is what they need to improve their health. The issue is the expert is a goose who shouldn't be in his job. Again the responsibility is the same chain, Robinson, Hamilton, Robson.
Finally, the buck stops with the coach stuff is flawed. This isn't a core football matter, it's a high performance matter. That area belongs to Robinson, who is Hird's equivalent in terms of authority. Then Hamilton who is both their bosses. It's unfair to expect the senior coach to have oversight and responsibility for every staff member in the club and everything that happens to players.
But the buck did stop with Golden Balls!
He said so - he fronted the press and bravely said exactly those words.
And from that moment he bravely stuck firm for …………… well ……… for about for 24 hours anyway.
He spent the following years dodging and weaving and ducking and diving and completely absolving himself of even an ounce of responsibility.
Weak sod.
Last edited:
Wow; thanks for going to the trouble of laying all of this out.Fair enough, I'll tell you what I think for your interest and everyone else can just ignore it.Apologies for the long post but there's a lot of ground.
For what it's worth here my take on it all is two things happened, one, Essendon were made a scapegoat for competition wide issues and two, the wrong people were punished for the sake of appearances.
On the first point, there is no doubt there were issues at most of the clubs in the competition in terms of potentially operating outside the drug codes and the AFL knew it. My personal view is there were three other clubs who were on the 'Essendon' tier, and then 10-12 others who had at least some degree of question around their conduct in this area, either on a club wide or individual player basis.
So by my take, there were up to 15 of the 18 clubs who were dirty, and four that were filthy. The former part of that is on public record, the latter is my educated guess based on things that I now know. (Full disclaimer the club I worked at was in the second group).
My view is that the AFL knew there was an issue and wanted to put a stop to it and rather than blow up the competition selected Essendon as the fall guy.
Why Essendon? Like most questions in this saga the answer is Stephen Dank. He was the differential between Essendon and the other clubs on the same level, because he was an unqualified moron who was running wild. There were also unquestionably links to organised crime there which made Essendon a good choice for the AFL/federal government relationship.
Had the codes been applied to the letter I believe the 2014 season would have been destroyed, 4 clubs unable to play at all and a large percentage of players across the entire competition suspended. It would have taken a very long time to recover. Hence the scapegoat.
On Essendon itself, what happened was absolutely diabolical. When you are in a position to understand the trust that young men and their families put in clubs to protect them and be responsible for their welfare, it makes you sick in the guts to think about what was allowed to happen to them. Disgrace doesn't even begin to cover it.
Having said that I absolutely believe that there was never anything but the right intentions from anyone at Essendon, including Dank.
In terms of actions (As opposed to process, procedures and governance) , Dank was the entire issue at Essendon.
The problem was he had no training or qualifications for the position, nor the knowledge or expertise to perform it, as well as being incapable of performing the critical tasks of the role. In short he was a buffoon playing at being a sports scientist who never should have been there. The fact that he was there is a combination of Essendon's poor process and him being a skilled con man.
So who is responsible for him being there in the first place? Ultimately the chain here goes the board, the CEO (Ian Robson), the Head of Football (Paul Hamilton), High Performance Manager (Dean 'Weapon' Robinson) and then Dank. So if Robinson brought Dank in to the club, then Hamilton and Robson had to sign off on his job. If the guy was not qualified and didn't have the skills to do the tasks he was charged with aren't they responsible for that? Remind me what sanctions they copped again?
Then you get to what actually happened at the club. You've got this unqualified buffoon running around the place, getting hold of all sorts of supplements, thinking they will do all sorts of things and saying he is doing things he isn't like keeping records, or paying attention to and understanding the codes. So how does that happen?
Firstly the guy who was his direct manager could be politely described as a meat head. When the underling is the smarter person, the manager finds it very hard to challenge them. Again who is supposed to be making sure Robinson is capable of, and actually is managing Dank. Hamilton and Robson. The only plausible explanation for Dank being able to run amok is that wasn't happening.
So where does Hird fit in all this? People outside clubs have a view that the AFL coach is the all-powerful being in the footy club, that nothing happens without their say so but that is just not the case. Hamilton is Hird's boss. Hird sits as an equivalent to Robinson in terms of organisational rank, he just has a more glamorous role.
Everything I have seen and heard reported or attributed to Hird in this is absolutely consistent with every other coach I have ever seen in sport in terms of their relationship with sports science or medical teams.
To a person they want their players faster, stronger, fitter and healthier than the opposition and they want you to use an legal means necessary to do so.
Hird's role in this is closer to the players. He trusts these guys implicitly to do their jobs at the highest level because these are the people his club has carefully selected to guide them. A football coach doesn't have the time, capacity or expertise to understand the drug codes, the sports science or the chemistry involved in these programs, legal or not and nor should they have to because it is not their place in the chain to have oversight.
Hird's role in the organisation is football. If his players are fit and healthy and performing well he is happy. When Dank texts him and says he is going to use Thymosin with Uniquinon he may as well tell him he is going to use blue tic tacs for all it means to Hird. Unless the word is panadol, Hird is out of his depth.
Hird doesn't care, his players are playing well and feeling good. This bloke wouldn't be giving them anything that wasn't right, or safe, or helpful or legal. He's the expert, right?
So whatever these guys do Hird has implicit trust. As he should be able to. As the players should be able to. But they have all been horribly let down by the chain of command I outlined earlier.
At this point people say what about them going off site? or having heaps of injections? Or using IVs? Or signing disclaimers? Or cutting out Doc Reid? Hird must have known that was dodgy.
My answer to the procedural things is why would he? Again he is trusting the 'experts' and if they say this is the way we need to do it why would he challenge that? It would be like Dank popping out to training and telling the team he had a new kick in strategy he wanted them to try. As for Reid, the simple answer I think is Hird was dealing with a con man and a moron managing him and they worked him over. Dr Reid is old school, this is cutting edge stuff and he doesn't understand it. We know what we are doing, this is best practice in the industry now. It's an easy story to sell.
Then people get to player welfare. Why didn't Hird care about his players and watch what was happening to them? Again why would he and how would he even manage that given his workload as an AFL coach. Do we expect coaches to head into the canteen and make sure the food handling is up to scratch? Or to pop into the property office and make sure the drink bottles are cleaned properly? Sit in on player's surgery and make sure the ACL is repaired correctly?
Once again they trust other people in the organisation to perform their roles and that their managers are having the correct oversight to make sure that occurs.
Hird is one thing but how they ever came to the decision to penalise Mark Thompson beggars belief. It's like when Stewart cleaned up Prestia they gave Joel Selwood two weeks just for being there.
No question in my mind the outcome should have been the Essendon board, Robson, Hamilton, Robinson and Dank all copping sanctions. Hird's culpability is tiny, Thomson's even less. I'm not sure where Danny Corcoran even fits in to be honest.
Understand most people will dismiss all that and be adamant Hird is the worst bloke around and got what he deserved and that's fine. That is my opinion, based on 30 years working in professional sport and with a reasonable understanding of what happened at Essendon. Other people think differently and that's fine with me.
Great read and food for thought.
I also heard some deluded Bummer moron call SEN the other day stating "yeah bring Hird back and give the Brownlow Medal back to Watson......" I laughed.
I honestly still can't believe they've been so hasty to sack Ben Rutten given the caliber of coaches that they're now considering.
We're just going round in circles. Sorry TBR but none of it washes with me. You argument seems to rest on the premise that all footy clubs are loose and unaccountable. And consequently how are they meant to tell the difference between a bona-fide expert and a carpetbagger? thats how it is and its all OK. I don't agree.
No so fast. He then sent a backtracking text message to Hird after his comments broke saying that he was “taken out of context” (that old chestnut) and that him and the other players would be rapt to have him as coach.
WAP.
No, no, no, it's not ok at all. It's a disgrace.
My premise isn't all footy clubs are loose and unaccountable, it's that Essendon was loose and unaccountable and employed an unqualified moron without doing due diligence and he then ran amok with a level of trust he never should have been given.
The point is it isn't ok and there should have been harsh consequences for the people responsible. The entire board should have been stood down and Robson, Hamilton, Robinson and Dank banned for life. Instead the wrong people were punished and that group skipped away into the sunset, apart from Dank.
I always thought he'd be the type to run with hares and hunt with the hounds, and that he could never be a Richmond man
Because of the Canberra connection I followed Hird's press conferences with keen interest
time has faded a lot of the detail
post finals loss to Carlton Hird complained about his players , "grown men" , being rag dolled and he was quite hung up on that
and said they would go away in the off season and do "what ever it takes "
<my opinion , how he spoke in that post match address opened the door to someone shady and it was in that off season he is introduced to Dank, in the mood Hird was in he would be open to try things >
when the press conferences start the next year the club motto was "what ever it takes" , that was on the banner behind him and in was on a race into the dressing rooms at Windy Hill , possibly else where but those two places I saw
once there was blood in the water the media went into a feeding frenzy
Hird's initial response was to pretty much deny everything
but as evidence came to light elsewhere he would gradually admit small things
one comment he made that is etched into my brain is he insisted he get a text message after every offsite injecting session
that suggests to me he had a fair idea of what was going on maybe not complete
then when pressed about getting the injections himself , he initially denied , then said one and towards the end I think he said "he , Dean Wallis and a couple of other coaching staff had them weekly for a period"
exactly how much Hird knew we'll never know and how open and honest Dank was with Hird we'll never know
but we do know it wasn't happening behind his back , he was very much involved in it
Essendon went to the AFL and raised the issue and had been in discussions over it and what steps to take
there was a high powered meeting at a private house on a Sunday night with top officials from Essendon and the AFL
Hird was very upset about the meeting making reference to "we had an agreement" , repeated that several times
Demetriou denied being at the meeting but others placed him there , it was also denied there was any agreements made but Hird and another Essendon figure claimed there were
but talk of the meeting seemed to be squashed
my opinion , there were some promises made by the AFL but the saga had become so hot and on the nose they backed away
some years after on the Canberra grape vine did hear Hird felt very betrayed , didn't get anymore than that
that certainly made me wonder , did Dank mislead Hird and others at the Club ?
time has faded a lot of the detail
post finals loss to Carlton Hird complained about his players , "grown men" , being rag dolled and he was quite hung up on that
and said they would go away in the off season and do "what ever it takes "
<my opinion , how he spoke in that post match address opened the door to someone shady and it was in that off season he is introduced to Dank, in the mood Hird was in he would be open to try things >
when the press conferences start the next year the club motto was "what ever it takes" , that was on the banner behind him and in was on a race into the dressing rooms at Windy Hill , possibly else where but those two places I saw
once there was blood in the water the media went into a feeding frenzy
Hird's initial response was to pretty much deny everything
but as evidence came to light elsewhere he would gradually admit small things
one comment he made that is etched into my brain is he insisted he get a text message after every offsite injecting session
that suggests to me he had a fair idea of what was going on maybe not complete
then when pressed about getting the injections himself , he initially denied , then said one and towards the end I think he said "he , Dean Wallis and a couple of other coaching staff had them weekly for a period"
exactly how much Hird knew we'll never know and how open and honest Dank was with Hird we'll never know
but we do know it wasn't happening behind his back , he was very much involved in it
Essendon went to the AFL and raised the issue and had been in discussions over it and what steps to take
there was a high powered meeting at a private house on a Sunday night with top officials from Essendon and the AFL
Hird was very upset about the meeting making reference to "we had an agreement" , repeated that several times
Demetriou denied being at the meeting but others placed him there , it was also denied there was any agreements made but Hird and another Essendon figure claimed there were
but talk of the meeting seemed to be squashed
my opinion , there were some promises made by the AFL but the saga had become so hot and on the nose they backed away
some years after on the Canberra grape vine did hear Hird felt very betrayed , didn't get anymore than that
that certainly made me wonder , did Dank mislead Hird and others at the Club ?
With Hird encuraging him all the way threw, as he was the coach of young men there welfare has to be no 1 priority. A total failure of leadership by Hird, the damage to the players careers, reputation and health sits with Hird, I don't think the players should have been suspended but Hird should have been "warned Off" in the way thoroughbred racing "warns Off" crims and crooks.
I don't follow your logic here. Why wouldn't Hird encourage the staff at his club after the senior management employed them?
And why would he think their welfare would be at risk from an expert his club hired to help them?
I think that if Hird get the job then Wayne Carey must be one of his assistants.
Both involved in drug scandals and both perfect angles that did nothing wrong it was everybody else
Both involved in drug scandals and both perfect angles that did nothing wrong it was everybody else
