-
IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.
Economy gets big tick (TheAge)
- Thread starter Rosy
- Start date
i am a little confused why the former government would choose to bank money rather than spending on things they now say are important, such as the National Disability Insurance Scheme. Basically they could have had it up and running years ago but chose not to. now they support it. why didnt they support it when they were in power and had the money to make it happen?
Liverpool said:
i mean this question seriously, and it is not at all party politics related, but economically and socially wouldnt it make sense for the government to try to maintain a consistent level of spending, and therefor services, at a level that is sustainable in the long run rather than fluctuating according to revenue?
this would mean surplusses when revenue is up and deficits when revenue is down.
Brodders17 said:
It's easy to get confused Brodders. It's usually, because political parties do one thing and say another, or vice versa. ;D
Maybe they were building up the funds to pay for it, rather than implement it and have no money to fund it. Then somehow they departed.
But I'm confused too, if everyone supports it why isn't it in well before now?
Brodders17 said:
Its important to look at what the revenue is and what your priorities are for it. When the Libs were in government revenue was much lower than now in real terms. Going back ten years it looks like revenue has almost doubled to today, but using basic maths (x^y) and making the overstated assumption inflation was at the top of the reserve's range (i.e. 3%), in todays numbers revenue 10 years ago was 236 billion versus current 329 billion - i.e has gone up 39% in real terms.
It's possible that the Libs couldn't afford it when they were in govenrment and now believe that they can. Its also possible that it wasn't even on their agenda for any number of reasons.
But my argument is all to do with budget position and I'll re-state in real terms revenue has grown by 39% and we are in DEFICIT. Does not make sense.
Tiger Rob said:
from those charts they were banking about $20b each year, that would more than cover the NDIS plus more. it appear their focus was on profits ahead of people.
Brodders17 said:
Not sure profits is the correct term. Future fund is what they called it. What I call it is putting money aside to pay for all the baby boomers goverment guaranteed super that no government ever has put any money aside for.
By the way the Libs left the interest the future fund earned in the future fund - i.e. it was all off budget. Labour collects and uses this interest - i.e. the future fund ain't earning anything to pay for all those retirees.
The Five Year Labor of Hell0
Kevin Hicks December 21, 2012
I think I may have been unfair in my blogs accusing this Patchwork Government of Lying to the Australian Public, of a constant stream of vindictive attacks on the Opposition Leader, or of restricting our Freedom of Speech, or doing deals with overseas countries to take over our Industries , or even selling off Australia to overseas Communist interests. And definitely would be unfair if I thought they were guilty of wrongdoings in their past, or of allowing the Unions too much influence in the Government, but overall I must have been out of my mind to think the worlds best Treasurer is just not up to the job of managing the economy, especially as he was left with $0.00 debt and a surplus of $29 billion. It made his job easy to look after our future right? Let’s have a look below.
Australia should consider raising the GST and widening the mining tax in order to shore up the budget’s long-term health, the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development says. In its latest review of the nation’s economic policies, the Paris-based think tank suggests sweeping tax reforms will be needed in the not-too-distant future.
With GST revenue growing at a sluggish pace due to weaker household spending, the OECD says the tax’s rate of 10 per cent is low compared with other countries, and the government should consider raising it.
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/raise-gst-widen-mining-tax-oecd-urges-20121214-2be7o.html#ixzz2F0rbSIkQ
And now we are being told what to do by a Paris based OECD. And this Government would relish another chance to tell Australians to bend over and thrust and increase of Tax on us. Seeing as someone outside of Australia who struggles with it’s own economic credentials has told us what to do, Gillard’s regime will most likely to take it seriously.
Here is what Labor had previously promised:
Treasurer Wayne Swan:
“We’ll be back in the black by 2012/13, as promised.” (May 2011)
“The government remains absolutely committed to delivering our return to surplus as we planned.” (August 2011)
“We’ve nailed our colours to the mast.” (February 2012)
“Despite the tough global conditions, we remain determined to return the budget to surplus in 2012/13, and we will get there.” (March 2012)
“The reality is that we need to cut and cancel existing programs if we are to meet our targets and we’ll need to redirect some spending to where it is needed most,” Swan said. Swan said fiscal discipline was “not for the faint-hearted”.
Treasure Wayne Swan will save $16.4 billion to deliver a $1 billion budget surplus and 10,500 companies will pay for more than half of the government’s savings.
In his first budget on 13 May 2008, Swan promised a surplus in 2008-09 of $21.7 billion. In the Final Budget Outcome for 2008-09, Swan delivered a deficit of $27.1 billion.
Treasurer Wayne Swan has promised a re-elected Labor government will not put a tax on carbon during its next term of office.
“No it’s not possible that we’re bringing in the carbon tax, that is a hysterically inaccurate claim being made by the Coalition.”
Opposition treasury spokesman Joe Hockey pressed Mr Swan on the issue on Thursday, demanding to know whether Australia would be hit with a carbon tax in the next three years under Labor.
“We have made our position very clear, we have ruled it out,” the treasurer told ABC Television.
Ms Gillard and Mr Swan had repeatedly said the surplus was a “guarantee” and would be delivered “come hell or high water” because it was vital to taking pressure off the cost of living. Last year the PM said “you can’t run this country if you can’t manage its Budget”.
THE reason the Gillard government’s agony over the promised budget surplus assumes such high political stakes is because for three years Labor has invested this goal as proof of its wisdom, economic responsibility and ability to take the tough decisions.
Labor has created the cult of the surplus. It did this to win economic and political virtue. It invited the world to judge its performance by the surplus pledge. Indeed, Julia Gillard told business leaders a few weeks ago the Australian budget was “one of the seven economic wonders of the modern world”.
This was hubris on steroids. The origin of this 2010 surplus pledge was to show that Labor was master of the economic upturn as well as master of the economic downturn. As Wayne Swan kept saying, the government would be Keynesians on the way down and Keynesians on the way up. Labor would be a government for all seasons.
In recent years the Prime Minister and Treasurer have spared no superlative in declarations that their surplus pledge will be delivered this year. In the past 18 months they have had opportunity after opportunity to pull back, qualify or abandon this promise in the light of dramatic changes in global events. They refused.
In his second budget on 12 May 2009, Swan promised a deficit in 2009-10 of $57.6 billion. The FBO showed a deficit of $54.8 billion for 2009-10.
In his third budget on 11 May 2010, Swan promised a deficit in 2010-11 of $40.8 billion. The FBO showed a deficit of $47.7 billion for that year.
In his fourth budget on 10 May 2011, Swan promised a deficit in 2011-12 of $22.6 billion. This was updated to a deficit of $44.4 billion in his fifth budget on 8 May 2012. The FBO for 2011-12 will be released at the end of September 2012.
In his most recent budget on 8 May 2012, Swan promised a surplus in 2012-13 of $1.5 billion. We will not know the outcome until late September 2013, by which time the is likely to be an Abbott Government in power.
“I don’t think it would be responsible to cut harder or further in 2012-13 to fill a hole in the tax system if that puts job or growth at risk,” he said. “If the worst thing that people say is we got the economics right again but fell short on the politics, well I just say, so be it.” (The only jobs they are worried about are their own)
Mr Swan, who has already slashed welfare for single parents, made cuts to the baby bonus and curbed the private health insurance rebate to protect the surplus said it was not in line with Labor values to pursue more cuts.
The Treasurer, who has not delivered a surplus in his five Budgets, said the “aftershocks” from the global financial crisis that had wiped $160 billion from revenue over five years were still being felt.
The most recent update of the Budget just two months ago had predicted a $1.1 billion surplus, down from the $1.5 billion announced in the May Budget.
Economists now believe that it could be a deficit of $10 billion.
Wayne Swan will never deliver a surplus – what do you think?
THE reason the Gillard government’s agony over the promised budget surplus assumes such high political stakes is because for three years Labor has invested this goal as proof of its wisdom, economic responsibility and ability to take the tough decisions.
Labor has created the cult of the surplus. It did this to win economic and political virtue. It invited the world to judge its performance by the surplus pledge. Indeed, Julia Gillard told business leaders a few weeks ago the Australian budget was “one of the seven economic wonders of the “modern world”.
This was hubris on steroids. The origin of this 2010 surplus pledge was to show that Labor was master of the economic upturn as well as master of the economic downturn. As Wayne Swan kept saying, the government would be Keynesians on the way down and Keynesians on the way up. Labor would be a government for all seasons.
In recent years the Prime Minister and Treasurer have spared no superlative in declarations that their surplus pledge will be delivered this year. In the past 18 months they have had opportunity after opportunity to pull back, qualify or abandon this promise in the light of dramatic changes in global events. They refused. Wayne Swan finally revealed a budget surplus is too hard to achieve in 2012.
Prime Minister Julia Gillard:
“There will be no carbon tax under the government I lead” came unequivocally and without qualification from Gillard before the election.
“My commitment to a surplus in 2012/13 was a promise made and it will be honoured.” (April 2011)
“We stand by the predictions, the entries in the Mid-Year Economic and Fiscal Outlook. We stand by the figures and we’re on track to deliver a budget surplus.” (November 2012)
Ms Gillard and Mr Swan had repeatedly said the surplus was a “guarantee” and would be delivered “come hell or high water” because it was vital to taking pressure off the cost of living. Last year the PM said “you can’t run this country if you can’t manage its Budget”.
The Rudd-Gillard Labor regime probably has the most appalling record of mismanagement and failed initiatives in the history of Australia. This bunch of inept fools turned a whopping $90 billion surplus into a $250 billion deficit in a few short years. Yes, they squandered $340 billion dollars on absolute garbage and are continuing to vandalise Australia into a train wreck. Here is a partial list of Labor’s failures, lies and mismanagement, which gives a good indication of where taxpayer funds were flushed down the toilet.
In her ALP Campaign Launch speech Julia Gillard guaranteed the following, “I’ll bring the Budget to surplus in 2013 and it’s why each and every day of this campaign, every time I have announced that we would spend on a new priority, we have also announced we would make the matching savings because I will not delay bringing the Budget to surplus by one hour, by one day. The Budget is coming back to surplus in 2013″. http://www.alp.org.au/federal-government/news/speech–julia-gillard,-alp-campaign-launch,-brisba/
Carbon Tax - The LIE to steal the election.
National Broadband Network - $50 billion for another white elephant that is already superseded.
Building the Education Revolution - The school halls fiasco.
Home Insulation Plan - Massive scams, fires and four deaths.
Citizens Assembly - Too difficult – dumped.
Hospital Reform - Too difficult – dumped.
Digital Set Top Boxes for Seniors - Cheaper to buy at Harvey Norman.
Emissions Trading Scheme - Scam, fortunately dumped but could be resurrected.
Mining Rent Resources Tax - Penalising the very people who create Australia’s wealth.
Indonesian Livestock Ban - Based on false information, cost industry billions of dollars.
Detention Centres - 5 star hotel accommodation while poor Australian pensioners live in squalor.
Malaysian Solution - Failed miserably and overturned by the High Court.
Computers in Schools - $1.4 billion blowout – less than half delivered.
Cutting Red Tape - 58 regulations repealed, but 12,835 new ones introduced.
Green Loans Program - Only 3.5% delivered – abandoned.
Solar Homes and Communities Plan - $534 million blowout – abandoned.
Solar Credits Scheme - Dumped because of insufficient planning.
Childcare Centres - 260 promised – 38 delivered – Abandoned.
Reducing the Public Sector - No decrease, but 24,000 more public servants employed.
Murray-Darling Basin Plan - Failed miserably.
2020 Summit - Meaningless gabfest that went nowhere and achieved nothing but cost money.
Fuel Watch - Cost millions of dollars but abandoned.
Grocery Watch - Cost millions of dollars but abandoned.
Stimulus Package - $900 sent to people who were deceased and those who were living overseas.
Solar Hot Water System Rebate - Cost millions of dollars but abandoned.
Defence Family Healthcare Clinics - 12 promised but none delivered.
National Education Curriculum - States in an uproar over politically correct leftist content.
Indigenous Housing Program - Went nowhere.
Better Defence uniforms - Falling apart during trials.
New Submarine Fleet - None operational.
Budget Surplus by 2012 - Too difficult to deliver.
Australia’s net Government debt was $96 billion in June 1996 at the end of Keating’s reign.
By June 2007, Australia had net financial assets (negative debt) of $29 billion. The Howard Government and the current Liberal Party point to this turn in the finances of the Government with pride and say it is a sign of good economic management.
In 2012 after 5 years of fiscal irresponsibility our net Government debt is around $231,306,000,000 billion
When we look at all this together with the ALP’s Misanthropist thugs and Misandrist bully-girls, you see a Government that have not lost their way, they never really knew where they were going in the first place.
It took 10 years for the Howard Government to rid itself of the $96 Billion debt left by Labor in 1996. How long will it take to pay of the grossly negligent, verging on criminal, debt of over $230 billion that Labor will leave hanging around when we get rid of them in 2013.
http://austeaparty.com.au/web/the-five-year-labor-of-hell/
Kevin Hicks December 21, 2012
I think I may have been unfair in my blogs accusing this Patchwork Government of Lying to the Australian Public, of a constant stream of vindictive attacks on the Opposition Leader, or of restricting our Freedom of Speech, or doing deals with overseas countries to take over our Industries , or even selling off Australia to overseas Communist interests. And definitely would be unfair if I thought they were guilty of wrongdoings in their past, or of allowing the Unions too much influence in the Government, but overall I must have been out of my mind to think the worlds best Treasurer is just not up to the job of managing the economy, especially as he was left with $0.00 debt and a surplus of $29 billion. It made his job easy to look after our future right? Let’s have a look below.
Australia should consider raising the GST and widening the mining tax in order to shore up the budget’s long-term health, the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development says. In its latest review of the nation’s economic policies, the Paris-based think tank suggests sweeping tax reforms will be needed in the not-too-distant future.
With GST revenue growing at a sluggish pace due to weaker household spending, the OECD says the tax’s rate of 10 per cent is low compared with other countries, and the government should consider raising it.
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/raise-gst-widen-mining-tax-oecd-urges-20121214-2be7o.html#ixzz2F0rbSIkQ
And now we are being told what to do by a Paris based OECD. And this Government would relish another chance to tell Australians to bend over and thrust and increase of Tax on us. Seeing as someone outside of Australia who struggles with it’s own economic credentials has told us what to do, Gillard’s regime will most likely to take it seriously.
Here is what Labor had previously promised:
Treasurer Wayne Swan:
“We’ll be back in the black by 2012/13, as promised.” (May 2011)
“The government remains absolutely committed to delivering our return to surplus as we planned.” (August 2011)
“We’ve nailed our colours to the mast.” (February 2012)
“Despite the tough global conditions, we remain determined to return the budget to surplus in 2012/13, and we will get there.” (March 2012)
“The reality is that we need to cut and cancel existing programs if we are to meet our targets and we’ll need to redirect some spending to where it is needed most,” Swan said. Swan said fiscal discipline was “not for the faint-hearted”.
Treasure Wayne Swan will save $16.4 billion to deliver a $1 billion budget surplus and 10,500 companies will pay for more than half of the government’s savings.
In his first budget on 13 May 2008, Swan promised a surplus in 2008-09 of $21.7 billion. In the Final Budget Outcome for 2008-09, Swan delivered a deficit of $27.1 billion.
Treasurer Wayne Swan has promised a re-elected Labor government will not put a tax on carbon during its next term of office.
“No it’s not possible that we’re bringing in the carbon tax, that is a hysterically inaccurate claim being made by the Coalition.”
Opposition treasury spokesman Joe Hockey pressed Mr Swan on the issue on Thursday, demanding to know whether Australia would be hit with a carbon tax in the next three years under Labor.
“We have made our position very clear, we have ruled it out,” the treasurer told ABC Television.
Ms Gillard and Mr Swan had repeatedly said the surplus was a “guarantee” and would be delivered “come hell or high water” because it was vital to taking pressure off the cost of living. Last year the PM said “you can’t run this country if you can’t manage its Budget”.
THE reason the Gillard government’s agony over the promised budget surplus assumes such high political stakes is because for three years Labor has invested this goal as proof of its wisdom, economic responsibility and ability to take the tough decisions.
Labor has created the cult of the surplus. It did this to win economic and political virtue. It invited the world to judge its performance by the surplus pledge. Indeed, Julia Gillard told business leaders a few weeks ago the Australian budget was “one of the seven economic wonders of the modern world”.
This was hubris on steroids. The origin of this 2010 surplus pledge was to show that Labor was master of the economic upturn as well as master of the economic downturn. As Wayne Swan kept saying, the government would be Keynesians on the way down and Keynesians on the way up. Labor would be a government for all seasons.
In recent years the Prime Minister and Treasurer have spared no superlative in declarations that their surplus pledge will be delivered this year. In the past 18 months they have had opportunity after opportunity to pull back, qualify or abandon this promise in the light of dramatic changes in global events. They refused.
In his second budget on 12 May 2009, Swan promised a deficit in 2009-10 of $57.6 billion. The FBO showed a deficit of $54.8 billion for 2009-10.
In his third budget on 11 May 2010, Swan promised a deficit in 2010-11 of $40.8 billion. The FBO showed a deficit of $47.7 billion for that year.
In his fourth budget on 10 May 2011, Swan promised a deficit in 2011-12 of $22.6 billion. This was updated to a deficit of $44.4 billion in his fifth budget on 8 May 2012. The FBO for 2011-12 will be released at the end of September 2012.
In his most recent budget on 8 May 2012, Swan promised a surplus in 2012-13 of $1.5 billion. We will not know the outcome until late September 2013, by which time the is likely to be an Abbott Government in power.
“I don’t think it would be responsible to cut harder or further in 2012-13 to fill a hole in the tax system if that puts job or growth at risk,” he said. “If the worst thing that people say is we got the economics right again but fell short on the politics, well I just say, so be it.” (The only jobs they are worried about are their own)
Mr Swan, who has already slashed welfare for single parents, made cuts to the baby bonus and curbed the private health insurance rebate to protect the surplus said it was not in line with Labor values to pursue more cuts.
The Treasurer, who has not delivered a surplus in his five Budgets, said the “aftershocks” from the global financial crisis that had wiped $160 billion from revenue over five years were still being felt.
The most recent update of the Budget just two months ago had predicted a $1.1 billion surplus, down from the $1.5 billion announced in the May Budget.
Economists now believe that it could be a deficit of $10 billion.
Wayne Swan will never deliver a surplus – what do you think?
THE reason the Gillard government’s agony over the promised budget surplus assumes such high political stakes is because for three years Labor has invested this goal as proof of its wisdom, economic responsibility and ability to take the tough decisions.
Labor has created the cult of the surplus. It did this to win economic and political virtue. It invited the world to judge its performance by the surplus pledge. Indeed, Julia Gillard told business leaders a few weeks ago the Australian budget was “one of the seven economic wonders of the “modern world”.
This was hubris on steroids. The origin of this 2010 surplus pledge was to show that Labor was master of the economic upturn as well as master of the economic downturn. As Wayne Swan kept saying, the government would be Keynesians on the way down and Keynesians on the way up. Labor would be a government for all seasons.
In recent years the Prime Minister and Treasurer have spared no superlative in declarations that their surplus pledge will be delivered this year. In the past 18 months they have had opportunity after opportunity to pull back, qualify or abandon this promise in the light of dramatic changes in global events. They refused. Wayne Swan finally revealed a budget surplus is too hard to achieve in 2012.
Prime Minister Julia Gillard:
“There will be no carbon tax under the government I lead” came unequivocally and without qualification from Gillard before the election.
“My commitment to a surplus in 2012/13 was a promise made and it will be honoured.” (April 2011)
“We stand by the predictions, the entries in the Mid-Year Economic and Fiscal Outlook. We stand by the figures and we’re on track to deliver a budget surplus.” (November 2012)
Ms Gillard and Mr Swan had repeatedly said the surplus was a “guarantee” and would be delivered “come hell or high water” because it was vital to taking pressure off the cost of living. Last year the PM said “you can’t run this country if you can’t manage its Budget”.
The Rudd-Gillard Labor regime probably has the most appalling record of mismanagement and failed initiatives in the history of Australia. This bunch of inept fools turned a whopping $90 billion surplus into a $250 billion deficit in a few short years. Yes, they squandered $340 billion dollars on absolute garbage and are continuing to vandalise Australia into a train wreck. Here is a partial list of Labor’s failures, lies and mismanagement, which gives a good indication of where taxpayer funds were flushed down the toilet.
In her ALP Campaign Launch speech Julia Gillard guaranteed the following, “I’ll bring the Budget to surplus in 2013 and it’s why each and every day of this campaign, every time I have announced that we would spend on a new priority, we have also announced we would make the matching savings because I will not delay bringing the Budget to surplus by one hour, by one day. The Budget is coming back to surplus in 2013″. http://www.alp.org.au/federal-government/news/speech–julia-gillard,-alp-campaign-launch,-brisba/
Carbon Tax - The LIE to steal the election.
National Broadband Network - $50 billion for another white elephant that is already superseded.
Building the Education Revolution - The school halls fiasco.
Home Insulation Plan - Massive scams, fires and four deaths.
Citizens Assembly - Too difficult – dumped.
Hospital Reform - Too difficult – dumped.
Digital Set Top Boxes for Seniors - Cheaper to buy at Harvey Norman.
Emissions Trading Scheme - Scam, fortunately dumped but could be resurrected.
Mining Rent Resources Tax - Penalising the very people who create Australia’s wealth.
Indonesian Livestock Ban - Based on false information, cost industry billions of dollars.
Detention Centres - 5 star hotel accommodation while poor Australian pensioners live in squalor.
Malaysian Solution - Failed miserably and overturned by the High Court.
Computers in Schools - $1.4 billion blowout – less than half delivered.
Cutting Red Tape - 58 regulations repealed, but 12,835 new ones introduced.
Green Loans Program - Only 3.5% delivered – abandoned.
Solar Homes and Communities Plan - $534 million blowout – abandoned.
Solar Credits Scheme - Dumped because of insufficient planning.
Childcare Centres - 260 promised – 38 delivered – Abandoned.
Reducing the Public Sector - No decrease, but 24,000 more public servants employed.
Murray-Darling Basin Plan - Failed miserably.
2020 Summit - Meaningless gabfest that went nowhere and achieved nothing but cost money.
Fuel Watch - Cost millions of dollars but abandoned.
Grocery Watch - Cost millions of dollars but abandoned.
Stimulus Package - $900 sent to people who were deceased and those who were living overseas.
Solar Hot Water System Rebate - Cost millions of dollars but abandoned.
Defence Family Healthcare Clinics - 12 promised but none delivered.
National Education Curriculum - States in an uproar over politically correct leftist content.
Indigenous Housing Program - Went nowhere.
Better Defence uniforms - Falling apart during trials.
New Submarine Fleet - None operational.
Budget Surplus by 2012 - Too difficult to deliver.
Australia’s net Government debt was $96 billion in June 1996 at the end of Keating’s reign.
By June 2007, Australia had net financial assets (negative debt) of $29 billion. The Howard Government and the current Liberal Party point to this turn in the finances of the Government with pride and say it is a sign of good economic management.
In 2012 after 5 years of fiscal irresponsibility our net Government debt is around $231,306,000,000 billion
When we look at all this together with the ALP’s Misanthropist thugs and Misandrist bully-girls, you see a Government that have not lost their way, they never really knew where they were going in the first place.
It took 10 years for the Howard Government to rid itself of the $96 Billion debt left by Labor in 1996. How long will it take to pay of the grossly negligent, verging on criminal, debt of over $230 billion that Labor will leave hanging around when we get rid of them in 2013.
http://austeaparty.com.au/web/the-five-year-labor-of-hell/
Unfortunately I can't do a table but here's a comparison
http://austeaparty.com.au/web/the-competency-test/
Sorry, don't know what happened, I'm claiming political sabotage. ;D
http://austeaparty.com.au/web/the-competency-test/
Sorry, don't know what happened, I'm claiming political sabotage. ;D
Brodders17 said:
Thanks mate. I know some only skim and pick out the bits they want to read. ;D
Gremlins or I may have been hacked by political saboteurs. ;D
Now modified.
There is no rant and rave, shock jock lefty blogger that I know of Willo. The right does tend to have mortage on 'em. They rely on unsubstantiated extreme assertions.
Lamby should start one, his post a while back demolished most of what that dude lists, some of it is fair enough, most of it is'nt or needs context. But as I've said Willo, if you don't do anything, you don't fail.
Lamby should start one, his post a while back demolished most of what that dude lists, some of it is fair enough, most of it is'nt or needs context. But as I've said Willo, if you don't do anything, you don't fail.
tigersnake said:
Too true Snakey.
And if you only have an ideal and don't have much of a plan or the competence to carry it out, the same happens.
