So you think this is working for us. Spare me.
Destroyed Shorty last year. McStay IS a forward. Howe has trained as a back for years.
My issue is that we have had forwards and they have been undervalued by the club.
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Dustin Martin
- Thread starter Rosy
- Start date
Destroyed Shorty last year. McStay IS a forward. Howe has trained as a back for years.
My issue is that we have had forwards and they have been undervalued by the club.
Just because you say McStay IS a forward and Howe has trained as abackman for years, doesn't take away from Brodders point. They were not recruited in those positions. McStay was recruited as a back, Howe was recruited as a forward but their skill sets work better at the opposite ends of the ground.
We aren't the only ones that swing players to different parts of the ground, but there are some on here that seem to indicate that we are the only stupid ones to try that.
I'll throw another 1 in the mix. Naughton was recruited as a backman.
To clarify, at the elite level you need to establish teams within teams to provide cohesion. Look at the successful sides.
Rance Cotchin and Reiwoldt in 2017 are the gold standard.
Switching is counterproductive unless it is done at the start of the season and players train together with subs as the year wears on. McRae was brilliant for preparing reserves players to fill in when required.
We are constantly disarming our own systems. See Balta and Shorty as exemplars. Still not sure what we wanted from Josh Gibcus. Swinging him around in his first year was a head scratcher.
Rance Cotchin and Reiwoldt in 2017 are the gold standard.
Switching is counterproductive unless it is done at the start of the season and players train together with subs as the year wears on. McRae was brilliant for preparing reserves players to fill in when required.
We are constantly disarming our own systems. See Balta and Shorty as exemplars. Still not sure what we wanted from Josh Gibcus. Swinging him around in his first year was a head scratcher.
You are cherry picking here. Balta has been picked as a back all year. The only times he has gone forward have been in game when Dimma has tried to flip up our forward half. The same people that bag him for switching positions, also bag Dimma out as being a bad gameday coach because "he's too conservative and doesn't change things on game day". So damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.
Gibcus the same, was training all pre-season last year as a back, and played back all year. He was swung forward a couple of times mid game to try and switch things up a bit but I don't remember a game where he was ever selected as a forward.
There is a big difference between swinging players forward and back to try and change things (this has been done in sport since sports began!!) and actually training them in a position pre-season and then switching their position as soon as the season has started. I can't recall a time when we did that.
Short is probably the only time where mid season we have switched his role, but that was to try and bring dynamism into our midfield group that had become too slow and stagnant.
Here we go again.
Never ending calls for the Tigers to trade Dusty.
Must admit the stats are worrying.
Don't miss out on the headlines from AFL. Followed categories will be added to My News.
Richmond has fielded the second-most experienced teams in 2023 – behind only premier Geelong – as calls again emerge for the struggling giant to turbocharge its rebuild by trading megastar Dustin Martin.
The Tigers invested heavily in the 2021 draft by taking Josh Gibcus, Tom Brown and Tyler Sonsie in the top 30, and secured father-son Maurice Rioli in 2020, but are slated to enter this year’s draft at No. 21 after offloading a future first-round pick as part of the trade for Jacob Hopper.
Recruiting sources on Monday said the Tigers had a “nice” batch of players aged under 21 – but after winning flags understandably lacked access to a generational talent in the mould of Will Ashcroft or Nick Daicos.
While Adelaide has assembled under-21s Josh Rachelle, Riley Thilthorpe, Luke Pedlar, Jake Soligo and Max Michalanney, or even St Kilda has stockpiled Mattaes Phillipou, Mitch Owens, Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera, Ryan Byrnes and Marcus Windhager, there is less certainty about Richmond’s kids.
Despite coach Damien Hardwick conceding he doesn’t have “a lot of magnets to shuffle” due to the club’s injury list, Thomson Dow has not added to his 13 AFL games this year and is averaging 24 disposals in the VFL.
Free agent Nathan Broad, 30, has interest to depart Punt Rd while the Tigers have met with GWS free agent Harry Himmelberg and could poach a third Giant in 12 months.
The Tigers’ offensive game has fallen off a cliff with their set-shot goalkicking costing them a shot at victory against Melbourne and again letting them down on Sunday.
The club’s 2022 profile – when it scored heavily but was also opened up defensively – has flipped.
This year the Tigers rank 16th for scores and are last in the AFL at generating a score per inside 50m.
Alarmingly, they rank 17th for points scored from turnovers and are the worst team at scoring from a front-half intercept.
In their premiership run from 2017 scoring off turnovers was their one-wood and nine of the past 10 premiers have ranked in the top six for points from turnover differential.
They also rank last for converting any chain into a score – be it a turnover, clearance or kick-in.
Over the five-game losing streak their defensive numbers have also started to erode. In that block they rank 12th for points conceded, 12th for points against from turnovers and 10th for defending ball movement.
Noah Cumberland 6.5 (5) -- six goals from 16 shots
Shai Bolton 7.5 (4)
Dustin Martin 4.4 (6)
Tim Taranto 2.6 (4)
Trent Cotchin 1.1 (4)
Source: CHAMPION DATA
While they are mostly ranked mid table defensively, there are red flags popping up and it has become a watch.
On Sunday the Tigers lost contested ball 28-9 inside their forward 50m. Clubs aren’t expected to win that count, as defenders often outnumber forwards, but it shouldn’t be a flogging and only North Melbourne (-22) recorded a worse round 7 differential.
At the other of the ground end Hardwick left youngster Tylar Young on boom forward Ben King, who kicked four goals in the first three quarters.
Noah Balta kept Mabior Chol quiet for the first three quarters before Balta moved forward while Dylan Grimes played deep on the likes of Bailey Humphrey, Alex Davies and Alex Sexton and Broad had Jack Lukosius.
Hardwick did move Liam Baker into defence after he started forward and could be tempted to throw Jayden Short in to the centre square, a tactic which worked in 2022, to complement Hopper and Tim Taranto.
The Tigers have no regrets about trading in Hopper and Taranto on seven-year contracts and many in the industry are surprised at the negativity.
They are long-term leaders expected to outperform the draft capital traded away and while Jack Viney received the medal on Anzac eve it was Taranto who polled the most coaches votes and almost sparked a comeback on Sunday.
Thomson Dow had 28 disposals and 11 clearances in the VFL on Sunday.
While the top-four hopes are shot and the Tigers will spend the rest of the season playing catch-up, their next four games are at the MCG against West Coast, Geelong, Essendon and Port Adelaide.
Ultimately playing Ivan Soldo, Ben Miller and Ryan instead of injured trio Tom Lynch, Toby Nankervis and Gibcus is hurting.
There was also the unexpected premature retirement of occasional whipping boy Jason Castagna, who applied fiercer forward pressure than Noah Cumberland or Martin
Never ending calls for the Tigers to trade Dusty.
Must admit the stats are worrying.
Don't miss out on the headlines from AFL. Followed categories will be added to My News.
Richmond has fielded the second-most experienced teams in 2023 – behind only premier Geelong – as calls again emerge for the struggling giant to turbocharge its rebuild by trading megastar Dustin Martin.
The Tigers invested heavily in the 2021 draft by taking Josh Gibcus, Tom Brown and Tyler Sonsie in the top 30, and secured father-son Maurice Rioli in 2020, but are slated to enter this year’s draft at No. 21 after offloading a future first-round pick as part of the trade for Jacob Hopper.
Recruiting sources on Monday said the Tigers had a “nice” batch of players aged under 21 – but after winning flags understandably lacked access to a generational talent in the mould of Will Ashcroft or Nick Daicos.
While Adelaide has assembled under-21s Josh Rachelle, Riley Thilthorpe, Luke Pedlar, Jake Soligo and Max Michalanney, or even St Kilda has stockpiled Mattaes Phillipou, Mitch Owens, Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera, Ryan Byrnes and Marcus Windhager, there is less certainty about Richmond’s kids.
Despite coach Damien Hardwick conceding he doesn’t have “a lot of magnets to shuffle” due to the club’s injury list, Thomson Dow has not added to his 13 AFL games this year and is averaging 24 disposals in the VFL.
Free agent Nathan Broad, 30, has interest to depart Punt Rd while the Tigers have met with GWS free agent Harry Himmelberg and could poach a third Giant in 12 months.
The Tigers’ offensive game has fallen off a cliff with their set-shot goalkicking costing them a shot at victory against Melbourne and again letting them down on Sunday.
The club’s 2022 profile – when it scored heavily but was also opened up defensively – has flipped.
This year the Tigers rank 16th for scores and are last in the AFL at generating a score per inside 50m.
Alarmingly, they rank 17th for points scored from turnovers and are the worst team at scoring from a front-half intercept.
In their premiership run from 2017 scoring off turnovers was their one-wood and nine of the past 10 premiers have ranked in the top six for points from turnover differential.
They also rank last for converting any chain into a score – be it a turnover, clearance or kick-in.
Over the five-game losing streak their defensive numbers have also started to erode. In that block they rank 12th for points conceded, 12th for points against from turnovers and 10th for defending ball movement.
TIGER YIPS
*PLAYER, GOALS, BEHINDS (NO SCORE)*Noah Cumberland 6.5 (5) -- six goals from 16 shots
Shai Bolton 7.5 (4)
Dustin Martin 4.4 (6)
Tim Taranto 2.6 (4)
Trent Cotchin 1.1 (4)
Source: CHAMPION DATA
While they are mostly ranked mid table defensively, there are red flags popping up and it has become a watch.
On Sunday the Tigers lost contested ball 28-9 inside their forward 50m. Clubs aren’t expected to win that count, as defenders often outnumber forwards, but it shouldn’t be a flogging and only North Melbourne (-22) recorded a worse round 7 differential.
At the other of the ground end Hardwick left youngster Tylar Young on boom forward Ben King, who kicked four goals in the first three quarters.
Noah Balta kept Mabior Chol quiet for the first three quarters before Balta moved forward while Dylan Grimes played deep on the likes of Bailey Humphrey, Alex Davies and Alex Sexton and Broad had Jack Lukosius.
Hardwick did move Liam Baker into defence after he started forward and could be tempted to throw Jayden Short in to the centre square, a tactic which worked in 2022, to complement Hopper and Tim Taranto.
The Tigers have no regrets about trading in Hopper and Taranto on seven-year contracts and many in the industry are surprised at the negativity.
They are long-term leaders expected to outperform the draft capital traded away and while Jack Viney received the medal on Anzac eve it was Taranto who polled the most coaches votes and almost sparked a comeback on Sunday.
Thomson Dow had 28 disposals and 11 clearances in the VFL on Sunday.
While the top-four hopes are shot and the Tigers will spend the rest of the season playing catch-up, their next four games are at the MCG against West Coast, Geelong, Essendon and Port Adelaide.
Ultimately playing Ivan Soldo, Ben Miller and Ryan instead of injured trio Tom Lynch, Toby Nankervis and Gibcus is hurting.
There was also the unexpected premature retirement of occasional whipping boy Jason Castagna, who applied fiercer forward pressure than Noah Cumberland or Martin
Duz has really developed a media phobia. Anyone seen this? Check at 20sec.
Interesting vision.
Two groups didn't show much interest in general - the Senior group who are no doubt well aware of our win-loss and do not want to clown around at all - they are in serious mode because they are proud - Jack, Grimesy, Bakes, Dusty
Indigenous boys just are not interested - MArlion and Shai
Then there are the blokes that are just always friendly obviously - Jack Graham, Broady, Hopeper
Rioli likes to gibve something
And some awkward young blokes..
The main thing I took was a Jack R and Grimesy and Dusty - was like no not today
Two groups didn't show much interest in general - the Senior group who are no doubt well aware of our win-loss and do not want to clown around at all - they are in serious mode because they are proud - Jack, Grimesy, Bakes, Dusty
Indigenous boys just are not interested - MArlion and Shai
Then there are the blokes that are just always friendly obviously - Jack Graham, Broady, Hopeper
Rioli likes to gibve something
And some awkward young blokes..
The main thing I took was a Jack R and Grimesy and Dusty - was like no not today
Yep. Agree with the seniors. Dash Kam's the leader in these. Always says something with a smile. Great to see Gibbo looking positive.
4 goals from 7 games in a forward/midfield role for Dusty so far this year. Not exactly a Leigh Matthews type return.
Meanwhile young Cumberland is going backwards after being great last year, since Dusty has shifted down there..
Dusty is going pretty well but honestly looks far more effective when in the midfield.
It's not worked all that great tbh.
Meanwhile young Cumberland is going backwards after being great last year, since Dusty has shifted down there..
Dusty is going pretty well but honestly looks far more effective when in the midfield.
It's not worked all that great tbh.
We simply must get Dusty in centre clearance more often.
Watching last weekend I don’t think he is really playing as a permanent forward, I think he is playing the lambert role. High half forward who goes on ball at times.
To me he is still an elite centre square clearance player.
Watching last weekend I don’t think he is really playing as a permanent forward, I think he is playing the lambert role. High half forward who goes on ball at times.
To me he is still an elite centre square clearance player.
Dusty playing the Lambert role? You need a defensive side of your game to play that.
I was worried this was going to happen and spoke about it late last year. We need to work out a way to keep them both involved. At the moment both are average to poor hitting the scoreboard
Dusty's scoring output has nearly halved since playing predominantly forward when it should really be the opposite.
It's taken some time for Dusty, but I believe he is building (some long kicks hitting targets, ability to get the back, linking up. His goal sense is a bit off, but it will improve. If the team can lift its performance, then all players will benefit. I want Cumbo and Dusty to be in the same side, but Cumbo must do more.
No coincidence he played a complete game today as he played more midfield. This must be the case moving forward.
Missing goals he normally gobbles up doesnt help the stats.
The main thing to me is getting him at CHF and making incisive kicks to create set shots
Prestia & Graham returning and playing the half forward Lambert role will help. It should allow Duz and Shai to wax and wane mid / forward
The main thing to me is getting him at CHF and making incisive kicks to create set shots
Prestia & Graham returning and playing the half forward Lambert role will help. It should allow Duz and Shai to wax and wane mid / forward
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