Draft Hannah Mounsey to AFL women

[Panthera Tigris]

You're probably right.

It would take gradual and universal change to work. I firmly believe that if the junior leagues never separated, there would be a smattering of women capable of being drafted into the seniors. It would probably only ever be in small numbers though. Just like not many short people get drafted. Or slow people. But that's what elite sport is. It discriminates against certain body types. What's great about AFL is that it takes a much wider variety of athletic ability than most sports.

I don't think endurance and skill level would ever be an issue. Just generally, women have less muscle mass and height, but that's only a generalisation. And footy can be played by people like Dion Prestia and Caleb Daniel, so height and weight aren't everything.

I think, in reality, if we were to suddenly make the league open to all genders, and lose the women's league, it would be, at this stage a step backwards for women in footy. We would have less women at the elite level. But, and I don't know, I wonder whether these women like the opportunity to compete in the highest quality league in Australia.

And, if you forget the AFL for a moment, I reckon it would lead to a huge uptake of female participation in things like the VFL.

I don't think there's a perfect solution, and to be honest, I haven't asked the opinion of female athletes in the sport, so I don't know.

And in an entirely measurable sport like Athletics, you would have ZERO women able to compete at the elite level. Like I said earlier, even Flo-Jo, who holds records likley to never be broken would only be competitive with the best 15-16yo boys in the world. That means, women could never aspire to be elite athletes in this particular sport if it were open competition. To me this would be terrible, and runs counter-intuitive to what feminism has been trying to achieve regarding sport

This is where I get baffled by the obsession of identity and victim politics - being so determined to smash what they perceive as inherently evil western societal norms and structures - being pushed so far that it starts to cannibalise itself.

 

[tigerlove]

If I were to offer a personal opinion, it would be that gendered sports are a bit arbitrary anyway.

Really? Wow.

 

[Rosy]

I'm proud and happy to be a woman. Everyone has different strengths and weaknesses. I'd hate to see gender blend into a cultural melting pot of political correctness. Glad the talk of gender-less sport is only hypothetical. Mixed teams are fine as an option but would be disastrous if they were the only option.

 

[easy_tiger]

Some people don't produce any sex cells.

Broady produces shitloads apparently.

 

[Coburgtiger]

I'm proud and happy to be a woman. Everyone has different strengths and weaknesses. I'd hate to see gender blend into a cultural melting pot of political correctness. Glad the talk of gender-less sport is only hypothetical. Mixed teams are fine as an option but would be disastrous if they were the only option.

Which league do you think intersex or transgendered people should play in?

 

[Panthera Tigris]

Which league do you think intersex or transgendered people should play in?

I know the question wasn't asked of me. But my take on it. Whichever way you go you have to accept that you create winners and losers. This being the case, I'd take the utilitarian path - that is, the greater good for the greater number.

This means intersex and transgendered people have to compete with the men. In this scenario a small portion of the population is obviously disadvantaged, we can't deny this. However, if you permit them competing in women's comp, you are disadvantaging 50% of the population.

 

[easy_tiger]

Its a minefield.

I'd hate to have to adjudicate on it.

I once consulted the human rights commission in order to get a 13 year old girl I coached to play with the 13 year old boys I coached. She was competitive on her merits. Probably the 12th MVP on the side

FWIW, was told NO. Girl played against younger boys, then the girls comps started and she will probably get drafted to The Suns Womens 2018

I honestly dont know what I'd do if I was coaching juniors and a transgender person wanted to play.

I suppose if he was born a girl, I'd advocate her playing against boys (as I did previously), but I think if she was born a boy, I dunno if id advocate her playing against girls.

Im not trying to present what I think as correct.

Im just presenting it.

I'm not sure I actually understand what intersex is?

edit: just read Coburgs good biology lesson and I have a heaps better, but still shaky understanding.

 

[tigerlove]

I once consulted the human rights commission in order to get a 13 year old girl I coached to play with the 13 year old boys I coached. She was competitive on her merits. Probably the 12th MVP on the side

I personally can't see why this would be an issue if she was competitive on her merits. But if it was a 13yo boy wanting to play in a girls team then to me that is the tricky one. Question is how many 13yo boys would want to play in a girls team anyway?

 

[easy_tiger]

I personally can't see why this would be an issue if she was competitive on her merits. But if it was a 13yo boy wanting to play in a girls team then to me that is the tricky one. Question is how many 13yo boys would want to play in a girls team anyway?

The AFL argued it was for her protection.

 

[TigerMasochist]

you hung around with people tougher than you as a kid and then learned to like the pain

Awwww gee, did I step on a toe? Sorreeeeee my bad :-*.

 

[Coburgtiger]

I know the question wasn't asked of me. But my take on it. Whichever way you go you have to accept that you create winners and losers. This being the case, I'd take the utilitarian path - that is, the greater good for the greater number.

This means intersex and transgendered people have to compete with the men. In this scenario a small portion of the population is obviously disadvantaged, we can't deny this. However, if you permit them competing in women's comp, you are disadvantaging 50% of the population.

Probably fair enough.

I don't like the idea of sweeping one group of people under the rug, but if two options are mutually exclusive, go with the one that causes the least harm.

But the conversation is worth it.

 

[Brodders17]

This is where I get baffled by the obsession of identity and victim politics - being so determined to smash what they perceive as inherently evil western societal norms and structures - being pushed so far that it starts to cannibalise itself.

who are these people??

 

[tigertim]

And in an entirely measurable sport like Athletics, you would have ZERO women able to compete at the elite level. Like I said earlier, even Flo-Jo, who holds records likley to never be broken would only be competitive with the best 15-16yo boys in the world. That means, women could never aspire to be elite athletes in this particular sport if it were open competition. To me this would be terrible, and runs counter-intuitive to what feminism has been trying to achieve regarding sport

This is where I get baffled by the obsession of identity and victim politics - being so determined to smash what they perceive as inherently evil western societal norms and structures - being pushed so far that it starts to cannibalise itself.

I read some tweet the other day that gender identity is a construct of corrupt western society......

 

[Panthera Tigris]

who are these people??

The types of people who hold powerful unelected positions in most of our public institutions. People like the recently departed Gillian Triggs of the Australian Human Rights Commission is the most visible example. This then filters down through all of our public institutions.

I read some tweet the other day that gender identity is a construct of corrupt western society......

Of course it is..... :

Sure, our society isn't perfect and never will be. But in relative terms, there probably hasn't ever been a better, more prosperous time in human history, than to be privileged enough live in western society over the post WW2 era.

I kind of think we have reached a point in western society (I stress, in relative terms, obviously there are some things that can always be improved) where there isn't too much to really worry about. So people are self indulgently clutching at straws for things to rebel against. Hence there seems to a political movement kind of rebelling against biology itself.

 

[artball]

I kind of think we have reached a point in western society (I stress, in relative terms, obviously there are some things that can always be improved) where there isn't too much to really worry about. So people are self indulgently clutching at straws for things to rebel against. Hence there seems to a political movement kind of rebelling against biology itself.

totally agree PT. its a 'First World Problem' scenario, ushered in by mass culture and mass information.

 

[shad]

I work in a high school and we have two transgender kids. It's a small sample, but if the one becoming a girl played in a girls league she would physically smash the others. And if the one becoming a boy had to play in a boys league he would get killed. I reckon if you are as big as Hannah and are trying to play in a womens' league you are taking the p!ss.

 

[Brodders17]

The types of people who hold powerful unelected positions in most of our public institutions. People like the recently departed Gillian Triggs of the Australian Human Rights Commission is the most visible example. This then filters down through all of our public institutions.

what western societal norms and structures is she trying to smash?

 

[Tygrys]

I work in a high school and we have two transgender kids. It's a small sample, but if the one becoming a girl played in a girls league she would physically smash the others. And if the one becoming a boy had to play in a boys league he would get killed. I reckon if you are as big as Hannah and are trying to play in a womens' league you are taking the p!ss.

Oh if you think that's a joke, there is a militant atheist transgender activist in the US that calls himself Zinnia Jones. Ms Jones has taken the demand for equal treatment a step further by stating that straight guys that don't wish to date trans-women 'should try to work through that'. Jones then went on to say, 'these angry declarations that they have some absolute right to not want to be with trans women are just misplaced and inappropriate'. So apparently being straight and not being romantically interested in a trans-woman could be construed as bigotry *lol*. Anyhow the likes of Mounsey and Jones can identify as women as much as they like, but it's just one consideration among many others as to how far they will be treated as such.

 

[TigerMasochist]

Oh if you think that's a joke, there is a militant atheist transgender activist in the US that calls himself Zinnia Jones. Ms Jones has taken the demand for equal treatment a step further by stating that straight guys that don't wish to date trans-women 'should try to work through that'. Jones then went on to say, 'these angry declarations that they have some absolute right to not want to be with trans women are just misplaced and inappropriate'. So apparently being straight and not being romantically interested in a trans-woman could be construed as bigotry *lol*. Anyhow the likes of Mounsey and Jones can identify as women as much as they like, but it's just one consideration among many others as to how far they will be treated as such.

Seriously? Geez, just *smile* grateful that I'm old n don't have to think too hard about this type of *smile* much. The world's bad enough when somebody can successfully sue for a boiled fanny because they bought a coffee at a drive through n then put the paper cup in their crotch while they were driving. How pitiful is the world becoming when it's somehow hateful to not want a relationship or sex with a person who doesn't suit your personal requirements.

 

[tigertim]

Oh if you think that's a joke, there is a militant atheist transgender activist in the US that calls himself Zinnia Jones. Ms Jones has taken the demand for equal treatment a step further by stating that straight guys that don't wish to date trans-women 'should try to work through that'. Jones then went on to say, 'these angry declarations that they have some absolute right to not want to be with trans women are just misplaced and inappropriate'. So apparently being straight and not being romantically interested in a trans-woman could be construed as bigotry *lol*. Anyhow the likes of Mounsey and Jones can identify as women as much as they like, but it's just one consideration among many others as to how far they will be treated as such.

Is she the one that said something like “ladies, if your man says he won’t date a trans woman, dump him”?