Draft Hannah Mounsey to AFL women

[Panthera Tigris]

Summed up perfectly. I think the end goal will be to end competitive sport as they will argue that it isn't fair that some win and some lose.

In such a hypothetical world, I could see sports where physical prowess is the major determinant of performance, being pulled from school sporting programmes and funding reduced, in favour of sports not reliant heavily on this aspect. Inter-school lawn bowls and curling will be huge!! Golf, perhaps should be strongly encouraged to abolish anything longer than a par 3 hole?

Hypothesised examples aside, don't get me wrong, I'm not a heartless prick. People are allowed to live as they wish. And if Hannah wants to live as a woman and it makes her happy, so be it, it's none of anyone else's business and she should be allowed to do it. However there is one major condition. It cannot unfairly impede others. And in my view, this is one area where it is unfairly to the detriment of women, who were conventionally born female.

We can't pretend that making a decision on these issues only creates winners. There will most certainly be winners and losers. The choice you have to make though is, should we take the utilitarian route to the benefit of 50% of the population, meaning less than 1% lose out. Or should we make a decision to the benefit of the less than 1%, with 50% losing out? The political climate we live in seems to have the loudest, shrillest voices coming from those in favour of the less than 1%. With anyone not agreeable tarred with the hateful bigot brush.

 

[Giardiasis]

The political climate we live in seems to have the loudest, shrillest voices coming from those in favour of the less than 1%. With anyone not agreeable tarred with the hateful bigot brush.

Yep, the determining factor is: who is seen as the most oppressed group?

[youtube=560,315]Fn0P_wCB7T8[/youtube]

 

[yandb]

I used to coach Callum/Hannah in u17 cricket and as a 16 yo. he could have played senior men's football and since then he has grown taller and stronger.

Hannah could play men's football at the moment and be competitive, she doesn't need to play women's football.

 

[Tygrys]

In such a hypothetical world, I could see sports where physical prowess is the major determinant of performance, being pulled from school sporting programmes and funding reduced, in favour of sports not reliant heavily on this aspect. Inter-school lawn bowls and curling will be huge!! Golf, perhaps should be strongly encouraged to abolish anything longer than a par 3 hole?

Hypothesised examples aside, don't get me wrong, I'm not a heartless prick. People are allowed to live as they wish. And if Hannah wants to live as a woman and it makes her happy, so be it, it's none of anyone else's business and she should be allowed to do it. However there is one major condition. It cannot unfairly impede others. And in my view, this is one area where it is unfairly to the detriment of women, who were conventionally born female.

We can't pretend that making a decision on these issues only creates winners. There will most certainly be winners and losers. The choice you have to make though is, should we take the utilitarian route to the benefit of 50% of the population, meaning less than 1% lose out. Or should we make a decision to the benefit of the less than 1%, with 50% losing out? The political climate we live in seems to have the loudest, shrillest voices coming from those in favour of the less than 1%.
With anyone not agreeable tarred with the hateful bigot brush.

If you are a hateful bigot to care about the safety of girls and women in a contact sport such as Australian rules then so be it. If Mr Hannah Mouncey 6' 2 100 kg frame was to send a female competitor to hospital or worse what would people say then? When 200 asylum seeker drowned off Java in 2011 and Sarah Hanson-Young was questioned about the Greens role in reopening the people smuggling trade she simply responded 'Tragedies happen, accidents happen.' I'm kind of guessing that's what the green leftest social engineers would say again. Having a very young daughter who may one day want to play Australian football I'm afraid that just doesn't cut it. Men have no place in playing women's contact sports.

 

[tigerlove]

Maybe there should be a transgender league. Seems to be coming quite popular.

 

[IanG]

If you are a hateful bigot to care about the safety of girls and women in a contact sport such as Australian rules then so be it. If Mr Hannah Mouncey 6' 2 100 kg frame was to send a female competitor to hospital or worse what would people say then?

She's currently playing in amateur competition so.............

Although with the revelation that she hasn't actually physically transitioned I don't think she can be allowed to play.

 

[Tygrys]

She's currently playing in amateur competition so.............

Although with the revelation that she hasn't actually physically transitioned I don't think she can be allowed to play.

Professional competition, bigger, stronger, faster athletes, harder and potentially more dangerous hits would be the reasoning I guess.

Still he shouldn't be playing in the amateurs either, it's not fair and it's not worth the risk

 

[artball]

Isn't he already captaining the Crows AFL team?

Ka-Ching!

 

[KnightersRevenge]

She's currently playing in amateur competition so.............

Although with the revelation that she hasn't actually physically transitioned I don't think she can be allowed to play.

Still a grey area it seems. IOC are hedging their bets on the outcomes of cases. IAAF seem to require proof of gender re-assignment surgery (medical documentation and possible submission to their own panel I think), IOC does not (at the moment). So technically under IOC rules, Hannah plays.

 

[Coburgtiger]

Is she allowed to nominate for the men's league draft?

 

[Ghost of 29]

No way Hannah/Hank should have been allowed in under her his current circumstances. Get chopped and get her testerone and estrogen levels to that of a normal woman and do regular checks to ensoit stays there. Then she can join in.

The militant LGBTI community would be beside themselves with the possibility they could drag the game to the human rights commission. But mark my words if this isn’t controlled by the AFL we will get to the stage like overseas where all it takes is for a man to identify as female to play and compete as a female.

https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/apr/7/andraya-yearwood-transgender-athlete-stars-on-fema/

 

[Rosy]

No way Hannah/Hank should have been allowed in under her his current circumstances. Get chopped and get her testerone and estrogen levels to that of a normal woman and do regular checks to ensoit stays there. Then she can join in.

.......

From what I've read her hormones are already an acceptable standard despite lack of surgery. They can be chemically controlled. My concern would be living 20+ years with the hormones and associated strength and muscle development in that time. I don't know any facts about the situation just the same. It could be a very ignorant comment for all I know.

 

[DeathNinthandTaxes]

No way Hannah/Hank should have been allowed in under her his current circumstances. Get chopped and get her testerone and estrogen levels to that of a normal woman and do regular checks to ensoit stays there. Then she can join in.

The militant LGBTI community would be beside themselves with the possibility they could drag the game to the human rights commission. But mark my words if this isn’t controlled by the AFL we will get to the stage like overseas where all it takes is for a man to identify as female to play and compete as a female.

https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/apr/7/andraya-yearwood-transgender-athlete-stars-on-fema/

It seems like a backwards step for me. If you identify as female but have the size and strength to compete in a mens league then go do that. If the league says you cant compete because you identify as female then take the fight up to them. If you're an athlete you want to compete at the most challenging level possible. In the future, when the standard and strength of woman footballers increases, i'm sure the best of them will be challenging the status quo to let them play with the men. That is progress.
There is an opportunity to make a statement about equality here but i think Hannah has it arse about.

 

[tigertim]

As it affects me none I say let her play.

But will the day come when a female demands to play in the AFL ?

 

[seven]

As it affects me none I say let her play.

But will the day come when a female demands to play in the AFL ?

Great idea.
I'll start a petition tonight.

 

[chislop]

I am in the no camp. If you are born male, there are residual physical differences/benefits of being born male, that no amount of hormone therapy or sex change procedures can undo. But speaking scientific reality is apparently a form of bigotry.

Bare in mind the end goal for lobbyists in this area is a legal environment where people self certify as the gender they identify. They are then permitted to participate in activities reserved for that gender. Any organisation who denies them this right will be violating their human rights and face prosecution. The tactic is a gradual chipping away at the current framework until they reach that end goal.

My Devils Advocate question is, why not just abolish gender based sport altogether? If gender is entirely a social construct, as these people argue, surely we shouldn't have gender/sex based competition? Of course this would undo all of the work feminism has done regarding sport, as 99% of elite athletes would then be men. How far do they really want to push this? Because it makes a nonsense of the concept of gender/sex segregated competition.

I think you mean that media coverage of elite sport is focused overwhelmingly on men's sports. There are plenty of female elite athletes in various sports but the media isnt as interested.

 

[tigerlove]

As it affects me none I say let her play.

But will the day come when a female demands to play in the AFL ?

Without disrespect I can't see the day this will happen. The difference in strength and ability is immense. Remember when the Wiliams sisters claimed they could beat a male tennis player outside the top 200. Well they played a guy named Braasch (ranked 203) who reportedly had a game of golf and a couple of beers before playing a set against each of them which he won 6-1, 6-2. I just can't see a female pushing into the top 400 or 500 top footy players in the country.

 

[1eyedtiger]

Without disrespect I can't see the day this will happen. The difference in strength and ability is immense. Remember when the Wiliams sisters claimed they could beat a male tennis player outside the top 200. Well they played a guy named Braasch (ranked 203) who reportedly had a game of golf and a couple of beers before playing a set against each of them which he won 6-1, 6-2. I just can't see a female pushing into the top 400 or 500 top footy players in the country.

If that's the case, why not simply make the AFL a mixed competition? Give women the equal treatment they deserve and have been fighting for and allow them to nominate for the AFL alongside men. The best PERSON for the job. It's unlikely any woman will ever be drafted this way so that's the end of that.

 

[Brodders17]

If that's the case, why not simply make the AFL a mixed competition? Give women the equal treatment they deserve and have been fighting for and allow them to nominate for the AFL alongside men. The best PERSON for the job. It's unlikely any woman will ever be drafted this way so that's the end of that.

the end of what?

 

[Panthera Tigris]

I think you mean that media coverage of elite sport is focused overwhelmingly on men's sports. There are plenty of female elite athletes in various sports but the media isnt as interested.

No, that is not what I meant at all.

Name me a sport, where physical strength and power is a major element, that the best women in a given sport would be competitive with the best men in that sport. You wouldn't be able to, because there isn't one. The only sports that have mixed competition outside of social comps, are those where physical power is not a factor. Sports like curling and lawn bowls.

This is not to say the best women are not elite athletes in their own right. You misjudge me entirely if you interpreted from my post that I was suggesting they're not. But in the hypothetical scenario that all sports were suddenly genderless. Unless someone could socially engineer the rules, such as placing handicaps on male competitors, 99% of the upper echelons would be male. Even Flo Jo who ran what seemed like super human times (her records likely to never be broken unless open slather drug use is allowed....or perhaps if men identifying as women are allowed compete in female comp in future) and would beat most men in the general populace, would only be competitive with the best 15-16yo boys. The reason, because there are undeniable physical differences. Hence why it is so important to protect the integrity of segregated female sport.

I actually coach female track athletes and care immensely that they get to compete in fair competition and have the opportunity to strive for the upper echelons of their sport, perhaps even represent their country. In the hypothetical scenario that they had to compete against men, this simply would not be achievable.

The fact that supposedly educated people are now in faux denial about basic scientific fundamentals, in aid of their political view, shows us what a sea of obtuse lunacy we are drowning in.