Cotchin and Riewoldt

[wigglyworm]

Got his pants pulled down by a promising junior but did not give up in that game. Kept chasing kept tacking,

People have to get over Player X being beaten by Player Y on a given day.

It happens to the best of them

They've both done their jobs IMO. Felt like it was a bit of a barrage of attacks on Jack after the Carlton game, where he did ok IMO. Certainly was nowhere near as bad as some on here position.

 

[mrposhman]

Got his pants pulled down by a promising junior but did not give up in that game. Kept chasing kept tacking,

People have to get over Player X being beaten by Player Y on a given day.

It happens to the best of them

Really? Young played well (and by the way is more than a promising junior - he's 24 now - entering his prime) but Jack didn't have his pants pulled down. Its been said on here a lot of times now by others that were at the ground too, that the kicks into our forward line were attrocious. 3 kicks in particular to Jack, 1 by Short, 1 by Graham and 1 by Dusty, should have had Jack lining up 3 more shots at goal, the 1st 2 would have had him kicking from dead in front 30m out. I think most would have been happy if jack had marked those 3 (which would have taken his marks to 9 - 4 contested, and 4 shots on goal. Not sure that constitutes to having your pants pulled down. He led well, and had the kicking to him been better he'd have been lining up for 4 shots at goal and heaps of marks. I'm not sure what else Jack could have done in Round 1.

I was more disappointed in him against the Crows personally. Statistically he looks better from having more shots at goal than against Carlton (kicked 2.2) but the 2 he missed were poor execution that should have been bread and butter goals for Jack.

I personally think Jack's had a very good start to the season and I'm stumped by so many wanting to see him dropped.

 

[123cups]

I've seen calls for Jack to retire in 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, and now 2023.

Whenever you're looking for signs that any player is "too old", everything you see will confirm what you're looking for.

Every kick that doesn't make the distance is evidence they're "done". Jack kicked one from outside 50m this week... remember when he didn't make the distance one time from 35m out in 2019? People wouldn't stop talking about that 1 kick all season, even though he kicked one from 50 a week later. We're 4 years past that point and he's still kicking them from outside 50. There's a lesson about age + bias here.

When the time comes, it should be obvious IMO. I'm happy to see them play support roles and be rested throughout the season. Geelong just won a premiership doing this, so there's no reason to rush anyone out the door.

 

[TigerMasochist]

Two games in and apart from the obvious imports of Tarantino n Grasshopper, we've already started getting game time into generation next. Regardless of who we consider might make it or not, Nigel, Funky, Delilah n Toby have made the senior team and contributed. They'll be patchy as hell at times, that's just the frustrating fun of getting games into the younger players. Plenty of other youngsters looking to build on, or start their careers n I've no doubt there's quite a few will be getting their opportunity to play seniors this year.

 

[DjJazzyPete]

Was reading on FB footy site that some Tigers fan recons .. Jack , Cotch , Tarrant to retire end of season ( yep expected ) .
But seems to have inside ( I'm calling BS ) info that Dusty and Prestia will also retire . Soldo to Essendon and Graham to Crows ?
So yeah there are always calls for players to retire . Take some of it with a grain of salt

 

[momentai]

What exactly have these blokes done wrong so far this year? Both seem to be playing their roles and doing well with them?
I am never against the old adage of young blokes having to earn their spots and forcibly remove other players from their spots through having form over multiple weeks in a row and basically making themselves impossible not to pick.

Jack has been one of the games greats, in my mind surpassing his more famous cousin, by a fair margin. His success has relied heavily on skill and footy smarts.
In the first two rounds it has been noticeable that his speed is dropping off and his taking of possession with it. Instead he is beginning to rely more on scooping of the ball, in order to avoid taking possession, and trying in this way to get the ball to a team mate and to the teams advantage.
His lack of speed to the ball has impacted these efforts, as well as his confidence, and really he is no longer himself.
Hope I am wrong and that he kicks a bag.

 

[fastin bulbous]

If, by some bizarre club anomoly,

we dont let these immortals

Transition out of the game on their own terms,

Whatever they may be,

I'll cancel my membership.

Both are comfortably top 10 players presently.

I hope they either

1. Retire on the premiership podium this year,

Or

2. Play in 2024

If i wanted to barrack for a *smile* club with no feel for culture, who has no qualms treating club greats with astounding disrespect,

Id barrack for hawthorn.

If you said to me you can

A) beat geelong in this years premiership by 20 goals, but JR and Cotchy are disenfranchised or

B) lose to geelong in the GF with cotchy and Jr's heart pumping black and yellow,

I chose B without hesitation.

I’m not sure it has to be one or the other scenario ezy. They are club champions and respected. But they are both slowing down a lot. At some point pragmatism will win out. Any age over 32 is extra time for most players and they would be well aware.

 

[shad]

Given their age I am quite comfortable about how Jack and Cotch are going this year. I'm more concerned about Dusty to be honest.

 

[Coburgtiger]

I love Jack.

I love Cotchy.

End of story.

 

[achillesjones]

If, by some bizarre club anomoly,

we dont let these immortals

Transition out of the game on their own terms,

Whatever they may be,

I'll cancel my membership.

Both are comfortably top 10 players presently.

I hope they either

1. Retire on the premiership podium this year,

Or

2. Play in 2024

If i wanted to barrack for a *smile* club with no feel for culture, who has no qualms treating club greats with astounding disrespect,

Id barrack for hawthorn.

If you said to me you can

A) beat geelong in this years premiership by 20 goals, but JR and Cotchy are disenfranchised or

B) lose to geelong in the GF with cotchy and Jr's heart pumping black and yellow,

I chose B without hesitation.

love the champs... but I'll have a very large teaspoon of option A please.

 

[eZyT]

I’m not sure it has to be one or the other scenario ezy. They are club champions and respected. But they are both slowing down a lot. At some point pragmatism will win out. Any age over 32 is extra time for most players and they would be well aware.

Absolutley - both are club men and i imagine will tell the coach when they cant contribute.

Im more making comment on supporters tainting the tale end of magnificent careers.

george castagne made mention of online vitriol contributing to his retirement.

People need to be respectful

Hawks are also a case study in dynasty cultural management.

Again, i think JR and Cotchy are top 10 VIP's

Ill prob stay out of this thread until they are 4 time premiership heroes

 

[fastin bulbous]

Absolutley - both are club men and i imagine will tell the coach when they cant contribute.

Im more making comment on supporters tainting the tale end of magnificent careers.

george castagne made mention of online vitriol contributing to his retirement.

People need to be respectful

Hawks are also a case study in dynasty cultural management.

Again, i think JR and Cotchy are top 10 VIP's

Ill prob stay out of this thread until they are 4 time premiership heroes

I imagine th online vitriol referred to would be directed abuse via twitter or facebook. Nothing to do with people having an opinion on pre. Players wouldn’t be on pre. I think it’s relevant for people to ask the question on these former untouchables. It’s a competitive sport. I am very clear that my support and tolerance is directed firstly at young players that need it to go forward, not for players on the way out who should supporting development of others at this stage of their career.

 

[eZyT]

I imagine th online vitriol referred to would be directed abuse via twatter or facefuck. Nothing to do with people having an opinion on pre. Players wouldn’t be on pre. I think it’s relevant for people to ask the question on these former untouchables. It’s a competitive sport. I am very clear that my support and tolerance is directed firstly at young players that need it to go forward, not for players on the way out who should supporting development of others at this stage of their career.

I have a different kind of love.

Select Richmond men get unwaivering, unconditional, respect from me.

When i deconstruct my love of richmond,

Its not about wins and losses.

 

[achillesjones]

I have a different kind of love.

Select Richmond men get unwaivering, unconditional, respect from me.

When i deconstruct my love of richmond,

Its not about wins and losses.

Sheeds?

 

[eZyT]

Sheeds?

Kevin sheedy?

Hes about as Richmond Man as Moira Deeming

 

[Carter]

I have a different kind of love.

Select Richmond men get unwaivering, unconditional, respect from me.

When i deconstruct my love of richmond,

Its not about wins and losses.

i understand and respect this Ezy

we had a shaky start on PRE but once i smoked what you were all about i realized we were simpatico

sorry for starting a thread that is spiritually painful

 

[FitenFitenWin]

I'm with Ezy on this one. Gotta let these legends retire on their terms.

Given the people that they are I'm sure they'll do the right thing by the club and pull the pin at the right time.

Respect and a common moral purpose (winning the right way - as opposed to Carlton (salary cap) / WC (drugs) / Melbourne (tanking) / Essendon (drugs) / Geelong(drugs)) are what underpin our culture - without them the club is nothing.

 

[achillesjones]

Kevin sheedy?

Hes about as Richmond Man as Moira Deeming

But what if Jack or Cotch go to into the darkness and coach Collingwood or Essendon for 20 years ?

 

[wigglyworm]

Really? Young played well (and by the way is more than a promising junior - he's 24 now - entering his prime) but Jack didn't have his pants pulled down. Its been said on here a lot of times now by others that were at the ground too, that the kicks into our forward line were attrocious. 3 kicks in particular to Jack, 1 by Short, 1 by Graham and 1 by Dusty, should have had Jack lining up 3 more shots at goal, the 1st 2 would have had him kicking from dead in front 30m out. I think most would have been happy if jack had marked those 3 (which would have taken his marks to 9 - 4 contested, and 4 shots on goal. Not sure that constitutes to having your pants pulled down. He led well, and had the kicking to him been better he'd have been lining up for 4 shots at goal and heaps of marks. I'm not sure what else Jack could have done in Round 1.

I was more disappointed in him against the Crows personally. Statistically he looks better from having more shots at goal than against Carlton (kicked 2.2) but the 2 he missed were poor execution that should have been bread and butter goals for Jack.

I personally think Jack's had a very good start to the season and I'm stumped by so many wanting to see him dropped.

I thought he was well beaten on the night. Young was very influential on the game. He didn't feature in any coaches votes. Young had the second most coaches votes on the night (6). He had an ordinary game but kept trying

 

[Sintiger]

Jack had been ok for the first couple of weeks but his lack of pace and run is only going to get more pronounced as time goes on. He is worth his spot now but I hope he decides this is his last year because personally I can’t see another year in him.

I would say the same for Cotchin but I have a slightly higher concern. To me his main benefit now is around stoppages and he isn’t getting a lot of that because of our recruiting of Hopper and Taranto. If Hopper doesn’t play this week he will need to be more of a stoppage mid so we will see whether he has the same value, we are going to need him