Coronavirus

[Sintiger]

If anyone can explain this they might just get a Nobel Prize.

It is very confusing the way that we locked down earlier and harder and yet ended up with more cases.

Sure, NSW got some extra vaccines and managed to get the vaccines out a bit quicker as a result, but the trend of cases versus vaccination percentages do not align between Victoria and NSW.

I'm sure there are plenty in the government and in the health research community trying to work this out too.

The modelling from Burnett has changed a bit with the quicker vaccination so I think that may have a bit to do with relieving the lockdown rules a bit more, but also they would be looking at compliance with the rules and what they think they can get people to do. Not much point having rules which no-one follows, better to have rules which most people will follow. No doubt a difficult balancing act though.

DS

The only theory that I have heard so far David is that melbourne's outbreak was far more related to large family and community groups living close together and giving it to each other than Sydney's was. It happened in Sydney but evidently was not as pronounced.
It is a theory only but I know there is a lot of analysis going on

 

[AngryAnt]

yes, I was agreeing with your points BT. I just didn't want anyone to think even though it is not as bad as some expected that it wasn't still really difficult.

Evidently Virginia Trioli had someone call this morning in tears saying she was in chronic pain but had her elective surgery deferred again. The distress from her and many others is that the only reason why her surgery is getting deferred is because the hospitals are clogged with people who won't get vaccinated

It actually makes me bloody angry at times.

Another reason why vaccination was a race.. innocent people are paying the price now, and have been for the last 8 months. The economy, small businesses, and now people with serious conditions - all in bad shape because of the slow vax rollout.

At least we will be opening up, but people waiting for elective surgery will continue to suffer.

 

[Sintiger]

Yes. I’m not sure when elective surgery will get back to some form of normality. Won’t be in 2021.
Part of the problem in the system is that when COVID numbers drop many staff will be wanting to take annual leave, and they will deserve it. That’s not going to be possible for everyone if there is a big push to catch up elective surgeries.

 

[DavidSSS]

The only theory that I have heard so far David is that melbourne's outbreak was far more related to large family and community groups living close together and giving it to each other than Sydney's was. It happened in Sydney but evidently was not as pronounced.
It is a theory only but I know there is a lot of analysis going on

Yeah, not sure we can ever know. No matter how much research is done it is bloody hard to nail down something like this, so many variables.

We'll see, excellent medical research in Melbourne and I'm sure they're having a good look. The research will teach us more even if they can't nail down a comprehensive explanation.

DS

 

[MB78]

Australia up to 21st/38 in OECD

Pretty sure Darebin where I live is below 80%, unless there was a miraculous jump over the weekend.

You are correct. On current numbers it won’t be over 80% next week as well.

First and Second Doses Administered by LGA - COVID Live

Live tracking of coronavirus cases, active, tests, deaths, ICU, hospitalisations and vaccinations in Victoria

covidlive.com.au

 

[Tigers of Old]

delete

 

[22nd Man]

Yes. I’m not sure when elective surgery will get back to some form of normality. Won’t be in 2021.
Part of the problem in the system is that when COVID numbers drop many staff will be wanting to take annual leave, and they will deserve it. That’s not going to be possible for everyone if there is a big push to catch up elective surgeries.

Heard surgeons who like many/ most do work in public and private hospitals saying they were being forced to cancel / defer private elective and operate on public patients being moved to private to make room for covid beds. Kicker is that the public patients he is obligated to operate on he said were less urgent than the private patients he has to tell to wait.

 

[tigersmk]

Doubt it. Morely likely the vaccination rates have increased as such that the strain on hospitals isn't as bad as expected.

The other states have all implemented lockdowns when outbreaks have occurred so i'm not sure what you're getting at by "following the other states lead". Unless you mean NOT having a lockdown and seeding the virus into neighbouring states and countries, ala NSW.

 

[MB78]

Heard surgeons who like many/ most do work in public and private hospitals saying they were being forced to cancel / defer private elective and operate on public patients being moved to private to make room for covid beds. Kicker is that the public patients he is obligated to operate on he said were less urgent than the private patients he has to tell to wait.

This is a huge mistake by the private hospitals. What is the point of having private hospital cover. This will cost our health system in the long run.

 

[Sintiger]

Heard surgeons who like many/ most do work in public and private hospitals saying they were being forced to cancel / defer private elective and operate on public patients being moved to private to make room for covid beds. Kicker is that the public patients he is obligated to operate on he said were less urgent than the private patients he has to tell to wait.

I can’t comment on what individual private hospitals do but they are allowed to do urgent privately insured surgery.
They are not forced to cancel urgent private electives to do urgent public electives ( they have to do both) but I suspect what else they do would be the choice of private hospitals themselves.

 

[Born_a_Tiger78]

This is a huge mistake by the private hospitals. What is the point of having private hospital cover. This will cost our health system in the long run.

I think that private hospital cover is actually a detriment to the health system.

NIB, BUPA, whichever, aren't collecting premiums with no view for a profit.

I just can't fathom why there is a tax incentive for individuals to pay private companies to deliver services that ought to be provided and funded by the government.

 

[Redford]

Heard surgeons who like many/ most do work in public and private hospitals saying they were being forced to cancel / defer private elective and operate on public patients being moved to private to make room for covid beds. Kicker is that the public patients he is obligated to operate on he said were less urgent than the private patients he has to tell to wait.

Yeah but don’t they stand to make more from operating on a private person than a public one ? Ie perhaps a conflict of interest when making that statement ?

 

[MB78]

I think that private hospital cover is actually a detriment to the health system.

NIB, BUPA, whichever, aren't collecting premiums with no view for a profit.

I just can't fathom why there is a tax incentive for individuals to pay private companies to deliver services that ought to be provided and funded by the government.

Ideally you would be right.

Private system would be more efficient than a public system for a start. I don’t have much faith in the administration of Victoria health. Tell me government departments anywhere in Australia that can manage a budget and have good cost control?

If you are prepared to pay extra for the benefits of having private health cover you should get a better service and treatment. It’s important that people pay for this service otherwise the health system will fall over, as so many people aren’t prepared to pay extra tax until the get slugged with the Medicare rebate. And the Libs or ALP aren’t going to an election with it ever as a policy.

 

[MB78]

Yeah but don’t they stand to make more from operating on a private person than a public one ? Ie perhaps a conflict of interest when making that statement ?

I think it was more to it than that. Private surgeons weren’t getting access to the operating tables in favour of surgeons that operate in the public health.

Surgeons say private patients have been frozen out in government deal

It’s claimed thousands of private hospital patients can’t get a bed due to a deal between the Andrews Government and hospital operators to clear a backlog of public patients wanting surgery. Two surgeons told Neil Mitchell private patients had virtually been frozen out of the system. It’s...

www.3aw.com.au

 

[Redford]

I think it was more to it than that. Private surgeons weren’t getting access to the operating tables in favour of surgeons that operate in the public health.

Surgeons say private patients have been frozen out in government deal

It’s claimed thousands of private hospital patients can’t get a bed due to a deal between the Andrews Government and hospital operators to clear a backlog of public patients wanting surgery. Two surgeons told Neil Mitchell private patients had virtually been frozen out of the system. It’s...

www.3aw.com.au

Well, again, exclusive private only surgeon v those helping in the public sector ? Meh.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

General Colin Powell, goneski at 84 from Covid.

 

[Sintiger]

I think it was more to it than that. Private surgeons weren’t getting access to the operating tables in favour of surgeons that operate in the public health.

Surgeons say private patients have been frozen out in government deal

It’s claimed thousands of private hospital patients can’t get a bed due to a deal between the Andrews Government and hospital operators to clear a backlog of public patients wanting surgery. Two surgeons told Neil Mitchell private patients had virtually been frozen out of the system. It’s...

www.3aw.com.au

This article refers to cat 2b and cat 3 surgery.

Cat 1 surgery is the most urgent, all hospitals have to prioritise them, public or private. Cat 2a is urgent but slightly less urgent, all hospitals must prioritise them.

Cat 3 includes things like cataracts, endoscopes etc , day surgeries and cat 2b can be reasonably complex surgery but less urgent. They are getting done slowly using whatever capacity is left in the system after cat 1 and cat 2a are done. That capacity is mainly in private hospitals because public hospitals are carrying the burden of COVID patients.

Public hospitals have waiting lists they are sending to privates to do and the privates have their own waiting lists. I believe the Private hospitals themselves are making the decisions about cat2b and cat 3 priority but I don’t know how they are making those decisions. I can guess.

There is not a neat split between surgeons who operate in Public and those who operate in private, there are many who do both. Those who operate solely in public will still be doing so because they are doing urgent work although they may be doing it in private hospitals. Those who operate solely in private may be finding themselves being forced to operate on public patients in private hospitals and not able to earn their big gap fee. Poor them.

 

[Redford]

General Colin Powell, goneski at 84 from Covid.

Wow. Double vaccinated too. 84.

 

[Sintiger]

Ideally you would be right.

Private system would be more efficient than a public system for a start. I don’t have much faith in the administration of Victoria health. Tell me government departments anywhere in Australia that can manage a budget and have good cost control?

If you are prepared to pay extra for the benefits of having private health cover you should get a better service and treatment. It’s important that people pay for this service otherwise the health system will fall over, as so many people aren’t prepared to pay extra tax until the get slugged with the Medicare rebate. And the Libs or ALP aren’t going to an election with it ever as a policy.

There is so much literature and opinion on this. We could argue it forever. My only comment is that our mixed model of health works ok, better than most, but far from perfect .

Australia’s public health system is recognised as one of the most cost efficient in the world and Victoria is the lowest cost in Australia. Many believe that is because Australia was a pioneer in what is called case mix funding and Victoria was the pioneer in that in Australia. Steven Duckett, now from the Grattan and seen a lot at the moment, was one of the main architects of that system.

You cannot really compare efficiency in public and private. Public hospitals are set up to do things that privates do not do, private hospitals are surgical factories, that is why they exist. Public hospitals do the most complex surgeries like transplants, they are training centres ( every specialist trained in Australia will have been trained in a public hospital) and they undertake research and clinical trials. That being said there is no doubt that routine surgeries are more efficiently done in a private hospital but that won’t be reflected in what your health fund gets charged plus the gap fee you pay. The cost that the public pays through taxation for services in a public hospital is actually less than what your health fund and you pay for similar services in a private hospital and the reason for that is you are paying a profit margin plus a big fat fee to a doctor.

That to me is the biggest flaw in private health. What doctors charge is completely unregulated and controlled.

 

[AngryAnt]

Wow. Double vaccinated too. 84.

Yes, apparently had a compromised immune system due to blood cancer treatment.