Coronavirus

[tigerlove]

get a grip. u get a grip, stupid comment. May of assaulted a cop, ffs. Police far too excessive and no safety for the individaul. Came from behind and slammed his head on concrete. Better techniques. No safety for the victim. These actions should never be condoned. There is no threat here. No excuse for such forcefulness. There is a lot of good work done by cops but it gets undone by imbeciles like that particular cop.
And fyi, only a couple posts back i was complimenting some good work cops did

if for one moment that officer talking to the kid was in danger, do you for 1 moment under such high tensions you mention the other officers to the right would not have been next or surrounded the kid like they normally do to assist an officer questioning a person. The arrest him if he is not compliant. Cops were checking travel points in/out of city. fair enough. Cowardly act to come from behind, grab the shoulders, kid couldnt brace himself. Sling tackle. Its not good sorry. Kids was listening to music.

If I had to guess, he is being questioned for either not wearing a mask maybe ( I couldnt see if he was wearing one), or his intention for being in the city and to show id. Will see what the investigation by both Transit Safety Division and Professional Standards Command say.

Yes exactly if you had to guess.

 

[Brodders17]

someone is showing this. it appears some cops have a predator symbol on the front part of the uniform. Someone has link it to this coy.
Dan is hiring extra muscle?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1440795047507607553

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t.co

A lot of people are showing a lot of things. I would be very wary of posting things from groups like RISE, or newscorpse without other evidence.

 

[MD Jazz]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/health/2021-09-24/covid-vaccines-do-they-change-risk-of-infection/100484432

 

[MD Jazz]

Not sure why anyone wouldn’t get vaccinated given the evidence coming out from countries like US Israel & UK

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Someone ask the Feds why is the Pfizer vaccine in short supply in Victoria?

Assuming Dan is correct, probably because the program has run out of control in Victoria. In the mad rush to get everyone vaccinated (thanks to horseface up north) and opening the program to lower age ranges, they haven't factored in the number of second doses required.

Someone done *smile* up their maths.

 

[AngryAnt]

Better for more to have a first dose than nothing at all.

 

[Brodders17]

Assuming Dan is correct, probably because the program has run out of control in Victoria. In the mad rush to get everyone vaccinated (thanks to horseface up north) and opening the program to lower age ranges, they haven't factored in the number of second doses required.

Someone done *smile* up their maths.

I think the feds pushed forward supply, so Vic gave out lots of 1st doses, based on what the Hunt was saying we would be getting in Oct. Now, because they have already pushed forward orders the Libs cant get the supply they said they would.

Moderna will help more first doses, but I assume it cant be given as a 2nd dose after Pfizer?

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

I think the feds pushed forward supply, so Vic gave out lots of 1st doses, based on what the Hunt was saying we would be getting in Oct. Now, because they have already pushed forward orders the Libs cant get the supply they said they would.

Moderna will help more first doses, but I assume it cant be given as a 2nd dose after Pfizer?

According to the HS, deliveries are on schedule. Victoria is expected to receive 3m doses in October after 1.7m in September.

Not sure about Moderna but I won’t be mixing jabs.

HS pressing for a decrease in the time between jabs so we can re-open faster. Madness.

Edit: On the last point, I was rebuked today by someone claiming Pfizer recommends three weeks between jabs. Looked it up and sure enough they were correct.

http://labeling.pfizer.com/ShowLabeling.aspx?id=15623

The contradictory advice is confusing.

 

[mrposhman]

According to the HS, deliveries are on schedule. Victoria is expected to receive 3m doses in October after 1.7m in September.

Not sure about Moderna but I won’t be mixing jabs.

HS pressing for a decrease in the time between jabs so we can re-open faster. Madness.

You mean those "medical experts" at the HS. Hahahaha

 

[22nd Man]

You mean those "medical experts" at the HS. Hahahaha

There is only one medical expert who counts in Vic and that is Prof Sutton. All the others are may as well just post on PRE. There is no "second opinion" available to citizens when it comes to lockdown or other restrictions.

 

[MB78]

It was a record day of vaccinations administered yesterday with close to 338k doses. Now over 50% of over 16’s fully vaccinated. A record amount done also in primary care. This would be due to Moderna being administered.

Also we should get some really strong second dose numbers in over the next week as a few of my friends that are in their 30’s and 20’s are due back to get their second dose of AZ early next week.

 

[Wildride]

It was a record day of vaccinations administered yesterday with close to 338k doses. Now over 50% of over 16’s fully vaccinated. A record amount done also in primary care. This would be due to Moderna being administered.

Also we should get some really strong second dose numbers in over the next week as a few of my friends that are in their 30’s and 20’s are due back to get their second dose of AZ early next week.

Saw that the people running Covidbase got Moderna - the three of them are between 12 and 15!

 

[Sintiger]

Don't think it's as clear-cut as cowardice. Government-ordered vaccination isn't happening anywhere else in the world and would possibly breach some sort of law.

I do agree these are special circumstances that perhaps warrant further discussion, but there would be many opponents. You'd hope the overwhelming majority would consent to get vaccinated out of sheer self-preservation, but 100% consensus is rarely achievable.

Maybe 000's of deaths is what it takes to get everyone on the same page.

I agree. It is still really complicated and there will be legal and contractual issues that have to be tested and managed. As examples

1. A person has a contract with an employer which says nothing about vaccinations. Is making it mandatory a breach of contract? Can that employee sue the employer?
2. If the employer then backs off and says that the employee can come to work unvaccinated are they then in breach of workplace health and safety laws which require them to provide a safe workplace?
3. If the unvaccinated worker returns what does the employer do if staff refuse to work with that person?
4. Number 2 and 3 also relate to an employee with a legitimate medical exemption
5. What does an employer do when their policy does not allow fulltime working from home and an unvaccinated employee says that they will just work from home ?

I could go on. This is going to be a lot of extra work for the lawyers in the end.

If a Government mandates vaccines I am sure there will be legal challenges to any legislation as well as the above. It may be good if there are in the end because at least it will provide a legal framework going forward

 

[Panthera Tigris]

Interesting observing the crowd at the protests. A lot of commentators seem to see what they want to see. All sorts of political axes to grind. Trying to paint a neat picture that it is a certain catch-all boogieman that is responsible for what they see as a reprehensible act.

"I see no non-Anglos or women" (the fault of whiteness and "toxic masculinity). "The CFMEU members aren't really involved, it's white neo-nazis posing as them and perhaps influencing half a dozen of them" (insinuation that left of centre unionists are neatly and uniformly the good guys, it is evil forces of "the right", whiteness and toxic masculinity that are the bad guys).

Then from the other side, I saw people bagging out the Sydney protestors as being overwhelmingly "Lebs" (and insinuation that multiculturalism and immigration is to blame). And sure there were plenty of people of Lebanese-Australian extraction in the crowd. As there are in the pictures I'm seeing from Melbourne yesterday. But it's a pretty diverse crowd.

What I see is a strange, disparate alliance. There are groups of people within society from all walks of life who have anti-establishment "you can't tell me what to do" ignorant chips on their shoulder. Intertwined with thugishness. I see it among bogan Aussies (I went to high school with a fair number of this demographic, of which not an insignificant number have spent their adult life in and out of prison as a result of not wanting to conform to societal norms and expectations). The western Sydney wannabe gangbanger Leb young males have this trait in spades. Clearly it is part of the culture of neo-nazi groups. And the CFMEU has fostered a culture of anti-establishment, intertwined with thugishness. When they have fostered this culture, I suppose it isn't surprising that it will manifest in this way around vaccination and lockdowns by certain elements/factions within the movement. Even in aboriginal areas there is a large hesitancy around vaccination (again, for understandable historical political reasons, there is an anti-establishment tilt in aboriginal communities).

As I say, a disparate alliance and mish-mash of people who are always looking for a way to display and express their "you can't tell me what to do" chip on their shoulder. And they do this in all sorts of ways on a normal daily basis. It's just that the current environment means they've found a common cause and fallen together by fluke of circumstance around vaccination and lockdowns.

 

[tigerlove]

I agree. It is still really complicated and there will be legal and contractual issues that have to be tested and managed. As examples

1. A person has a contract with an employer which says nothing about vaccinations. Is making it mandatory a breach of contract? Can that employee sue the employer?
2. If the employer then backs off and says that the employee can come to work unvaccinated are they then in breach of workplace health and safety laws which require them to provide a safe workplace?
3. If the unvaccinated worker returns what does the employer do if staff refuse to work with that person?
4. Number 2 and 3 also relate to an employee with a legitimate medical exemption
5. What does an employer do when their policy does not allow fulltime working from home and an unvaccinated employee says that they will just work from home ?

I could go on. This is going to be a lot of extra work for the lawyers in the end.

If a Government mandates vaccines I am sure there will be legal challenges to any legislation as well as the above. It may be good if there are in the end because at least it will provide a legal framework going forward

Companies are already mandating it.
IMO
#1 No
#2 Yes
#3 this will definitely happen if unvaccinated are allowed to work therefore companies have no choice but to mandate
#4 these people do NOT want to acquire COVID-19 under any circumstances which makes #2 decision even more important.
#5 if working from home doesn't allow them to do their job satisfactorily then they must vaccinate or lose their job.

I don't think government can mandate it without legal challenge but companies certainly can based on the risk to other staff.

In essence, as I've said previously, if you don't vaccinate, your rights will be affected. That's a given.

 

[Redford]

I think the feds pushed forward supply, so Vic gave out lots of 1st doses, based on what the Hunt was saying we would be getting in Oct. Now, because they have already pushed forward orders the Libs cant get the supply they said they would.

Moderna will help more first doses, but I assume it cant be given as a 2nd dose after Pfizer?

Think Canada has been successfully mixing them. Similar MRNA technology.

 

[AngryAnt]

Interesting observing the crowd at the protests. A lot of commentators seem to see what they want to see. All sorts of political axes to grind. Trying to paint a neat picture that it is a certain catch-all boogieman that is responsible for what they see as a reprehensible act.

"I see no non-Anglos or women" (the fault of whiteness and "toxic masculinity). "The CFMEU members aren't really involved, it's white neo-nazis posing as them and perhaps influencing half a dozen of them" (insinuation that left of centre unionists are neatly and uniformly the good guys, it is evil forces of "the right", whiteness and toxic masculinity that are the bad guys).

Then from the other side, I saw people bagging out the Sydney protestors as being overwhelmingly "Lebs" (and insinuation that multiculturalism and immigration is to blame). And sure there were plenty of people of Lebanese-Australian extraction in the crowd. As there are in the pictures I'm seeing from Melbourne yesterday. But it's a pretty diverse crowd.

What I see is a strange, disparate alliance. There are groups of people within society from all walks of life who have anti-establishment "you can't tell me what to do" ignorant chips on their shoulder. Intertwined with thugishness. I see it among bogan Aussies (I went to high school with a fair number of this demographic, of which not an insignificant number have spent their adult life in and out of prison). The western Sydney wannabe gangbanger Leb young males have this trait in spades. Clearly it is part of the culture of neo-nazi groups. And the CFMEU has fostered a culture of anti-establishment, intertwined with thugishness. When they have fostered this culture, I suppose it isn't surprising that it will manifest in this way around vaccination and lockdowns by certain elements/factions within the movement. Even in aboriginal areas there is a large hesitancy around vaccination (again, for understandable historical political reasons, there is an anti-establishment tilt in aboriginal communities).

As I say, a disparate alliance and mish-mash of people who are always looking for a way to display and express their "you can't tell me what to do" chip on their shoulder. And they do this in all sorts of ways on a normal daily basis. It's just that the current environment means they've found a common cause and fallen together by fluke of circumstance around vaccination and lockdowns.

All true PT.

 

[22nd Man]

I agree. It is still really complicated and there will be legal and contractual issues that have to be tested and managed. As examples

1. A person has a contract with an employer which says nothing about vaccinations. Is making it mandatory a breach of contract? Can that employee sue the employer?
2. If the employer then backs off and says that the employee can come to work unvaccinated are they then in breach of workplace health and safety laws which require them to provide a safe workplace?
3. If the unvaccinated worker returns what does the employer do if staff refuse to work with that person?
4. Number 2 and 3 also relate to an employee with a legitimate medical exemption
5. What does an employer do when their policy does not allow fulltime working from home and an unvaccinated employee says that they will just work from home ?

I could go on. This is going to be a lot of extra work for the lawyers in the end.

If a Government mandates vaccines I am sure there will be legal challenges to any legislation as well as the above. It may be good if there are in the end because at least it will provide a legal framework going forward

Far too simple for people to call for employers to do the heavy lifting. Everyone talks "public health" but then leaves it to the wider populace to make the hard decisions.

And don't forget the community sector: Local football club? Chess Club? Men's Shed? Scout group? Who decides what the policy is? Who polices it? What powers do they have? Who is liable? Can they insure against liability?

Mine field, dogs breakfast, lawyers picnic (5 only, double vaxed of course)

 

[MD Jazz]

Interesting observing the crowd at the protests. A lot of commentators seem to see what they want to see. All sorts of political axes to grind. Trying to paint a neat picture that it is a certain catch-all boogieman that is responsible for what they see as a reprehensible act.

"I see no non-Anglos or women" (the fault of whiteness and "toxic masculinity). "The CFMEU members aren't really involved, it's white neo-nazis posing as them and perhaps influencing half a dozen of them" (insinuation that left of centre unionists are neatly and uniformly the good guys, it is evil forces of "the right", whiteness and toxic masculinity that are the bad guys).

Then from the other side, I saw people bagging out the Sydney protestors as being overwhelmingly "Lebs" (and insinuation that multiculturalism and immigration is to blame). And sure there were plenty of people of Lebanese-Australian extraction in the crowd. As there are in the pictures I'm seeing from Melbourne yesterday. But it's a pretty diverse crowd.

What I see is a strange, disparate alliance. There are groups of people within society from all walks of life who have anti-establishment "you can't tell me what to do" ignorant chips on their shoulder. Intertwined with thugishness. I see it among bogan Aussies (I went to high school with a fair number of this demographic, of which not an insignificant number have spent their adult life in and out of prison as a result of not wanting to conform to societal norms and expectations). The western Sydney wannabe gangbanger Leb young males have this trait in spades. Clearly it is part of the culture of neo-nazi groups. And the CFMEU has fostered a culture of anti-establishment, intertwined with thugishness. When they have fostered this culture, I suppose it isn't surprising that it will manifest in this way around vaccination and lockdowns by certain elements/factions within the movement. Even in aboriginal areas there is a large hesitancy around vaccination (again, for understandable historical political reasons, there is an anti-establishment tilt in aboriginal communities).

As I say, a disparate alliance and mish-mash of people who are always looking for a way to display and express their "you can't tell me what to do" chip on their shoulder. And they do this in all sorts of ways on a normal daily basis. It's just that the current environment means they've found a common cause and fallen together by fluke of circumstance around vaccination and lockdowns.

One thing they have in common is they see themselves as victims - be it of government, western culture etc etc. I'm sure they justify behaviour because of this.

Very hard to see any other point of view or have empathy when one identifies as a victim.

 

[22nd Man]

Interesting observing the crowd at the protests. A lot of commentators seem to see what they want to see. All sorts of political axes to grind. Trying to paint a neat picture that it is a certain catch-all boogieman that is responsible for what they see as a reprehensible act.

"I see no non-Anglos or women" (the fault of whiteness and "toxic masculinity). "The CFMEU members aren't really involved, it's white neo-nazis posing as them and perhaps influencing half a dozen of them" (insinuation that left of centre unionists are neatly and uniformly the good guys, it is evil forces of "the right", whiteness and toxic masculinity that are the bad guys).

Then from the other side, I saw people bagging out the Sydney protestors as being overwhelmingly "Lebs" (and insinuation that multiculturalism and immigration is to blame). And sure there were plenty of people of Lebanese-Australian extraction in the crowd. As there are in the pictures I'm seeing from Melbourne yesterday. But it's a pretty diverse crowd.

What I see is a strange, disparate alliance. There are groups of people within society from all walks of life who have anti-establishment "you can't tell me what to do" ignorant chips on their shoulder. Intertwined with thugishness. I see it among bogan Aussies (I went to high school with a fair number of this demographic, of which not an insignificant number have spent their adult life in and out of prison as a result of not wanting to conform to societal norms and expectations). The western Sydney wannabe gangbanger Leb young males have this trait in spades. Clearly it is part of the culture of neo-nazi groups. And the CFMEU has fostered a culture of anti-establishment, intertwined with thugishness. When they have fostered this culture, I suppose it isn't surprising that it will manifest in this way around vaccination and lockdowns by certain elements/factions within the movement. Even in aboriginal areas there is a large hesitancy around vaccination (again, for understandable historical political reasons, there is an anti-establishment tilt in aboriginal communities).

As I say, a disparate alliance and mish-mash of people who are always looking for a way to display and express their "you can't tell me what to do" chip on their shoulder. And they do this in all sorts of ways on a normal daily basis. It's just that the current environment means they've found a common cause and fallen together by fluke of circumstance around vaccination and lockdowns.

Yep people are tripping over themselves to prove "their" people aren't involved.