Coronavirus

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

'Freedom Movement': Why people are still protesting despite the easing of lockdown rules

Hundreds of anti-lockdown protesters are still planning to take to the CBD’s streets in a fury. But who are they? And why, after Victoria has started to open up again, are they still angry?

www.theage.com.au

It was for your own *smile* good, morons. Just be thankful we're regaining a degree of normality in time for summer. Read a newspaper and understand what is happening elsewhere in the world.

Possibly a consequence of media reluctance to give exposure to the opposition in this state, although it's an unholy alliance that includes anti-vaxxers.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

All queuing up to come home now...

National cabinet throws spanner in home quarantine plan​

Tom Minear
Herald Sun
November 13, 2020
(paywalled)

The national medical expert panel has shot down plans for overseas arrivals to quarantine at home, despite Victoria’s quarantine inquiry recommending the change.

Scott Morrison said on Friday that commonwealth, state and territory health officers had decided home quarantine was not an option “that we can safely take on”.

“If we can find viable options then we’ll implement them but we haven’t been able to find any viable options that are safe at this time,” the Prime Minister said.

Mr Morrison will travel to Melbourne on Monday, where he will hold talks with Daniel Andrews, including about when Victoria will restart its quarantine program to take overseas arrivals.

But it is unclear how that will progress after the inquiry — established after the virus escaped from quarantine hotels and sparked the state’s deadly second wave — recommended home-based quarantine for some arrivals, potentially with electronic monitoring.

Federal Acting Chief Medical Officer Professor Paul Kelly said that while some states would trial “bespoke arrangements”, there were no “large scale alternatives to hotel quarantine”.

“I think the reason has been outlined already about how dangerous the rest of the world is and how important our border arrangements are,” he said.

There are now 35,600 Australians overseas who want to come home as the pandemic worsens.

Mr Morrison said international students were at the back of the queue to ensure Australians were supported to return as soon as possible first.

It came as the national cabinet received Chief Scientist Alan Finkel’s contact tracing report, which recommended a data exchange trial between Victoria, NSW and the ACT, the rapid rollout of pop-up testing sites to handle outbreaks, and investment in surge tracing workforces.

Dr Finkel also called on states to consider using a simple smartphone app for people to check in at hospitality venues, workplaces and other public venues, and for improvements to be made to better integrate the COVIDSafe app in the tracing process.

His report will be shared with incoming US president Joe Biden’s team to bolster their response after Mr Morrison held talks with the election victor this week.

 

[Tigers of Old]

Am very pleased they've shot down the home quarantine option.

 

[spook]

View attachment 11237Tim Smith one month ago ...

Crayon-eater.

 

[royce67]

You guys in Vic are hopeless - we managed a lazy 33k cases yesterday here in the UK...!

You managed to knock off Peter Sutcliffe aka The Yorkshire Ripper too. Nice work!

 

[tigertim]

This must be a parody Twitter account.

 

[Born_a_Tiger78]

That 60% number is based on a paper outlining an experiment done on Hamsters in lab conditions.

The experiment strung up masks between cages, and gauged the number of infected hamsters during a fixed time period, compared to a control with no mask strung up.

It was also conducted in two ways, one in which the infected hamster cage had the mask, the other in which the uninfected hamster cage had the mask.

60% refers to the situation in which the infected hamsters were 'wearing' the mask.

This is not a number that can be applied to epidemiological predictions. It is simply the outcome of an experiment done in lab conditions showing that in hamsters, an effectively used mask can reduce transmission.

There is very minimal evidence to show the effectiveness of mask use at an epidemiological level. The problem is that there are so many extraneous variables in trying to analyse the data, as masks are rarely used in isolation as the only preventative measure. The logic is basically that, because they can do something when used properly under the right conditions, with the right people wearing them, it should be having an impact.

My biggest concern throughout this whole year, which I documented here at the start of all this, is that people will assume that wearing a mask magically protects them. I.e. "I can go out with a cold, I was wearing a mask" "We don't need to physically distance, we were all wearing masks".

It's certainly not possible to just add a 60% reduction in transmission to the current numbers.



Different masks offer different levels of protection, but the standard surgical masks that most people are wearing are most effective when the infected person wears them. This is probably true for all masks, but the actual medical grade masks probably offer more protection to the uninfected person as well.


It's a misunderstanding of the basic scientific method to ask for 'proof', before applying evidence based practice.

Proof is not a scientific word. It's the realm of mathematics and the legal system.

All scientists look for is evidence that either supports or refutes a hypothesis, then they construct the best models they can on that evidence to be challenged again. We don't need proof of mask effectiveness to have evidence that they can be effective, and therefore take action based on that evidence.

Often in Science, we're not following the proven path, just our best guess at the time until evidence suggests it's a bad one. At the moment, based on the current evidence, universal mask use makes sense as a precautionary measure. But as the situation changes, the precautionary measures we take will change, but that's more of an ethical discussion than a scientific one.

If there are next to zero cases, the benefits of masks, weather it be 10%, 60% or 90% would be even closer to zero.

They had a time and a place, but surely there can now not be any reasonable justification for masks to be mandatory.

 

[Midsy]

You managed to knock off Peter Sutcliffe aka The Yorkshire Ripper too. Nice work!

He refused treatment for Coronavirus but yeah, every cloud...

 

[Althom]

All queuing up to come home now...

National cabinet throws spanner in home quarantine plan​

Tom Minear
Herald Sun
November 13, 2020
(paywalled)

The national medical expert panel has shot down plans for overseas arrivals to quarantine at home, despite Victoria’s quarantine inquiry recommending the change.

Scott Morrison said on Friday that commonwealth, state and territory health officers had decided home quarantine was not an option “that we can safely take on”.

“If we can find viable options then we’ll implement them but we haven’t been able to find any viable options that are safe at this time,” the Prime Minister said.

Mr Morrison will travel to Melbourne on Monday, where he will hold talks with Daniel Andrews, including about when Victoria will restart its quarantine program to take overseas arrivals.

But it is unclear how that will progress after the inquiry — established after the virus escaped from quarantine hotels and sparked the state’s deadly second wave — recommended home-based quarantine for some arrivals, potentially with electronic monitoring.

Federal Acting Chief Medical Officer Professor Paul Kelly said that while some states would trial “bespoke arrangements”, there were no “large scale alternatives to hotel quarantine”.

“I think the reason has been outlined already about how dangerous the rest of the world is and how important our border arrangements are,” he said.

There are now 35,600 Australians overseas who want to come home as the pandemic worsens.

Mr Morrison said international students were at the back of the queue to ensure Australians were supported to return as soon as possible first.

It came as the national cabinet received Chief Scientist Alan Finkel’s contact tracing report, which recommended a data exchange trial between Victoria, NSW and the ACT, the rapid rollout of pop-up testing sites to handle outbreaks, and investment in surge tracing workforces.

Dr Finkel also called on states to consider using a simple smartphone app for people to check in at hospitality venues, workplaces and other public venues, and for improvements to be made to better integrate the COVIDSafe app in the tracing process.

His report will be shared with incoming US president Joe Biden’s team to bolster their response after Mr Morrison held talks with the election victor this week.

I wonder how many of those people left because they "couldn't stand to live here"?

 

[Tigers of Old]

180,000+ cases in the US of A in a single day!!!!!!

COVID Live Update: 209,896,898 Cases and 4,402,084 Deaths from the Coronavirus - Worldometer

Live statistics and coronavirus news tracking the number of confirmed cases, recovered patients, tests, and death toll due to the COVID-19 coronavirus from Wuhan, China. Coronavirus counter with new cases, deaths, and number of tests per 1 Million population. Historical data and info. Daily...

www.worldometers.info

Trump has been an unmitigated disaster for America.

 

[Ridley]

Am very pleased they've shot down the home quarantine option.

I am as well. However the hotel quarantine program gives me no confidence given how poorly it was handled previously.

Surely we can set up some sort of camp quarantine facility like the one outside Darwin. Have it secured by the military. It is so critical we don’t *smile* this up again. We can’t go through a 3rd wave given the sacrifices made to get to where we are now.

 

[Ridley]

Just read about 4 new cases of community transmission in NZ. Also read that NSW authorities are trying to track down 455 people who have arrived from NZ since November 5th. WTF is going on? Obviously people from NZ can fly into Australia but not quarantine now. Who knows where these people are now. Geez we keep finding ways to *smile* this up. We need to keep the NSW border closed until the end of the year at least.

If we have another lock down caused by transmission from NSW I will dead set SPEW UP!!

 

[mrposhman]

Just read about 4 new cases of community transmission in NZ. Also read that NSW authorities are trying to track down 455 people who have arrived from NZ since November 5th. WTF is going on? Obviously people from NZ can fly into Australia but not quarantine now. Who knows where these people are now. Geez we keep finding ways to *smile* this up. We need to keep the NSW border closed until the end of the year at least.

If we have another lock down caused by transmission from NSW I will dead set SPEW UP!!

Yeah Andres brought this up. The Feds are trying to "open up" for some through the backdoor.

We'd said we didn't want to be part of the agreement right now. They go and get cleared through Sydney and then travel wherever the heck they want. The Feds have not released this policy very well at all.

BTW I don't think our side of the border has ever been closed.

 

[Ridley]

Yeah Andres brought this up. The Feds are trying to "open up" for some through the backdoor.

We'd said we didn't want to be part of the agreement right now. They go and get cleared through Sydney and then travel wherever the heck they want. The Feds have not released this policy very well at all.

BTW I don't think our side of the border has ever been closed.

Yeah I think you’re right Posh anyone can come to Vic; my mistake. Reckon we should close it now though. Worth consideration anyway.

 

[Coburgtiger]

If there are next to zero cases, the benefits of masks, weather it be 10%, 60% or 90% would be even closer to zero.

They had a time and a place, but surely there can now not be any reasonable justification for masks to be mandatory.

Sure. If there are zero cases. But there aren't. There are a few million right now.

The precaution is due to the possibility (probability) of one of those cases being reintroduced.

 

[Born_a_Tiger78]

Sure. If there are zero cases. But there aren't. There are a few million right now.

The precaution is due to the possibility (probability) of one of those cases being reintroduced.

Obviously I've referred to numbers in a local context, and at this stage, mandatory wearing of masks has no meaningful benefit.

All reasonable measures should be used to prevent the reintroduction/importation of further cases, so that the number of cases stays as close to zero as possible.

Otherwise, masks or no masks, all of what we have done has been pointless, and will provide evidence that restrictions should have been eased around the 6th September when the 7 day average was around 75 and the 14 day average around 95.

As an aside, I'll be watching Ireland closely. 2 more weeks of their 6 week lockdown and by then I'm tipping a 7 day average of about 160, with businesses beginning to reopen.

 

[mrposhman]

Obviously I've referred to numbers in a local context, and at this stage, mandatory wearing of masks has no meaningful benefit.

All reasonable measures should be used to prevent the reintroduction/importation of further cases, so that the number of cases stays as close to zero as possible.

Otherwise, masks or no masks, all of what we have done has been pointless, and will provide evidence that restrictions should have been eased around the 6th September when the 7 day average was around 75 and the 14 day average around 95.

As an aside, I'll be watching Ireland closely. 2 more weeks of their 6 week lockdown and by then I'm tipping a 7 day average of about 160, with businesses beginning to reopen.

How do you come to that conclusion that we should have opened on 6th September?

BTW on Ireland, you can't just look in isolation around 1 lockdown. If their cases are around 160 when they come out of lockdown and then go back up again and they go into another lockdown, what then??

Its entirely feasible (and I've discussed this with my family in the UK) that countries like the UK will bounce in between lockdown after lockdown and potentially be locked down for longer than we were, just we did it in 1 go which allows us to open more of the economy up quicker. There is also the secondary driver behind this which is consumer confidence. If our cases remain low, then consumer confidence will grow and more of the population will spend. When there are periods of uncertainty, uncertainty around spending resides which is what is going on elsewhere in the world, people may have had more freedoms than we have over the last 4-5 months but they still aren't spending as much as normal. We are in a great positon where our economy can bounce back fully and with confidence rather than an open but severely reduced economy that the rest of the world will be realising.

I assume you are in the position where we shouldn't have got down to this low a level of cases??

 

[Coburgtiger]

Obviously I've referred to numbers in a local context, and at this stage, mandatory wearing of masks has no meaningful benefit.

All reasonable measures should be used to prevent the reintroduction/importation of further cases, so that the number of cases stays as close to zero as possible.

Otherwise, masks or no masks, all of what we have done has been pointless, and will provide evidence that restrictions should have been eased around the 6th September when the 7 day average was around 75 and the 14 day average around 95.

As an aside, I'll be watching Ireland closely. 2 more weeks of their 6 week lockdown and by then I'm tipping a 7 day average of about 160, with businesses beginning to reopen.

Obviously I was pointing out that the localisation of our zero cases is fairly arbitrary.

Look, as I've said, I'm fully in support of removing mandatory mask use.

But we can't ignore the fact that the virus will come back into our community in some form. It just will. It's all well and good to throw tantrums about hotel quarantine, but that was never the issue, it just highlighted, and fuelled, it.

The issue was a very sudden relaxing of measures, together with ineffective contact tracing, insufficient testing and monitoring, and a complacent population.

What was possibly a single source of infection became an invisibly growing, and rapidly disseminating cluster of infections.

There will be further sources of infection in our society. The tens of millions of cases worldwide means that is inevitable.

That is the reason why those in charge are so hesitant to remove any precautions that can be kept in place, particularly those (like mask use) which have no impact on the economy.

We hopefully have the best infrastructure in place now to deal with further outbreaks. We can also hope they we will be right on top of potential sources of infection. To the point where we can take the risk to roll back mask use. As long as we're comfortable with the fact that it is a (minor) risk.

 

[DavidSSS]

That is the reason why those in charge are so hesitant to remove any precautions that can be kept in place, particularly those (like mask use) which have no impact on the economy.

This.

Wearing a mask is not a big imposition and does not have an impact on the economy. What's not to like about that?

I can see crowds at the footy being allowed to be larger than otherwise if we all agree to wear masks at the footy. Just an example but imagine if we have a choice: 20k at the G sans masks or 50k at the G with masks, which would you choose?

DS

 

[tigermike]

Holy hell... test rates in South Dakota over 50% positive. A lot of this is affecting First Nation peoples so death rates will be pretty bad.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1326292923617566720

Good luck to whoever trying to enforce social distancing/lockdown in the US after the politicisation of the issue this year.

Be wonderful if Trump could be indicted for endangering the health of US citizens by making mask-wearing a political statement. It won't happen of course but this will be his legacy for all Republicans to think about.